Speculation: Trade Ideas and Free Agency XXIII

[ThatGuy22]

I would really like to see Pominville, Parise, and Koivu get together and offer to waive their clauses (for the expansion draft only). Suter would get taken, so he can't waive, but I think it highly unlikely that any of those three would, unless Parise tears it up in the last half of the year, and even then... having those three extra spots would be huge for the Wild going forward, and all three of those players, but especially Parise, would benefit by keeping young talented players around the team he is going to be on for 8 more years.

We could then protect four of Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, Scandella, and Nino, Coyle, Granlund, and one of Haula/Zucker/Staal.

Really, if you were the GM of LV, would you take Parise right now? I think he has less trade value than Pominville. Koivu is still chugging along, but would LV want only two years of him, at 6.75M to boot?

If Parise, Koivu, and Poms REALLY were team players, they'd waive.

I have trouble getting behind this line of thinking. Those clauses were negotiated and signed in good faith, and who are we to judge them if they want to stay here. They've built lives, and have young kids. Without that security, maybe they'd have walked.

It would be great if they did. But that's a heck of a lot of risk you're taking on by waiving, uprooting your life and being forced to play for a team thats going to be bad for a few years. I will not think any less of them if they don't.

You are right on Koivu though, he wouldn't be picked. Not because of the term but because of the shear amount of Salary. He gets a 4 million dollar bonus July 1st, and his total compensation for next year is 9 + million dollars.

 

[ThatGuy22]

First, we should see if we can trade Koivu. He has 1 year left and he isn't as good as he once was. He's not going to be worth the money it'll cost to re-sign him unless he takes a deal less than 3 million.

Literally no one would trade for Koivu before he's paid the 4 million dollar bonus he gets July 1st, and with a likely stagnant cap few teams Koivu would waive to would have the cap space.

If the Wild are out of the mix next year by the Trade Deadline I could see him getting moved to a contender.

But within the 13 or 14 months, trading Koivu is nothing but fan-fiction. Zero shot to actually happen.

 

[Wild11MN]

I have trouble getting behind this line of thinking. Those clauses were negotiated and signed in good faith, and who are we to judge them if they want to stay here. They've built lives, and have young kids. Without that security, maybe they'd have walked.

It would be great if they did. But that's a heck of a lot of risk you're taking on by waiving, uprooting your life and being forced to play for a team thats going to be bad for a few years. I will not think any less of them if they don't.

You are right on Koivu though, he wouldn't be picked. Not because of the term but because of the shear amount of Salary. He gets a 4 million dollar bonus July 1st, and his total compensation for next year is 9 + million dollars.

Agree. Should we really expect someone who lives and has a family here to voluntarily waive something they agreed to? What would Zach think if GMCF asked him to waive knowing there was a legitimate possibility he's taken? Now he's unhappy with that situation, and it doesn't look good on the GM to other teammates and free agents.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Agree. Should we really expect someone who lives and has a family here to voluntarily waive something they agreed to? What would Zach think if GMCF asked him to waive knowing there was a legitimate possibility he's taken? Now he's unhappy with that situation, and it doesn't look good on the GM to other teammates and free agents.

Exactly. When we were signing Suter/Parise. I'd highly suspect that one of the things that put them over the edge in coming to the Wild is the NMC, and the security that this would be where they spend the rest of their career. We know Philly offered more, NJ/Preds would have matched the offer. Detroit was up there, etc.

Coming home with the security to stay was likely a big part of that decision.

 

[Minnewildsota]

I would really like to see Pominville, Parise, and Koivu get together and offer to waive their clauses (for the expansion draft only). Suter would get taken, so he can't waive, but I think it highly unlikely that any of those three would, unless Parise tears it up in the last half of the year, and even then... having those three extra spots would be huge for the Wild going forward, and all three of those players, but especially Parise, would benefit by keeping young talented players around the team he is going to be on for 8 more years.

We could then protect four of Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Dumba, Scandella, and Nino, Coyle, Granlund, and one of Haula/Zucker/Staal.

Really, if you were the GM of LV, would you take Parise right now? I think he has less trade value than Pominville. Koivu is still chugging along, but would LV want only two years of him, at 6.75M to boot?

If Parise, Koivu, and Poms REALLY were team players, they'd waive.

If you're a team player, you'll take less salary at work so they can hire more people or post better numbers.

That line of thinking is just ludicrous.

 

[57special]

I have trouble getting behind this line of thinking. Those clauses were negotiated and signed in good faith, and who are we to judge them if they want to stay here. They've built lives, and have young kids. Without that security, maybe they'd have walked.

It would be great if they did. But that's a heck of a lot of risk you're taking on by waiving, uprooting your life and being forced to play for a team thats going to be bad for a few years. I will not think any less of them if they don't.

You are right on Koivu though, he wouldn't be picked. Not because of the term but because of the shear amount of Salary. He gets a 4 million dollar bonus July 1st, and his total compensation for next year is 9 + million dollars.

Cry me a Freaking river. They are multi millionaires playing a game. Save your sympathy for starving kids, the handicapped, and people who are outside working in the cold for $15/HR.

With great rewards come great expectations. If Parise and Pominville were honest with themselves they would know that they are not playing up to the level expected of them when they signed their contracts.

Earning your pay is ludicrous? Not in my world. Guess things are different when you make the big bucks.

 

[ThatGuy22]

Cry me a Freaking river. They are multi millionaires playing a game. Save your sympathy for starving kids, the handicapped, and people who are outside working in the cold for $15/HR.

With great rewards come great expectations.

It's got nothing to do with sympathy. I just have a hard time begruding anyone that has the ability to do what's best for them and their families, from doing it.

I'm not going to judge them on that, because in their situation I would probably do the same. Nor should it be expected of them.

 

[Nharris31]

Cry me a Freaking river. They are multi millionaires playing a game. Save your sympathy for starving kids, the handicapped, and people who are outside working in the cold for $15/HR.

With great rewards come great expectations. If Parise and Pominville were honest with themselves they would know that they are not playing up to the level expected of them when they signed their contracts.

Earning your pay is ludicrous? Not in my world. Guess things are different when you make the big bucks.

This line of thinking Is ridiculous. Just because they make a lot of money doesn't mean everything is going to be good in their life or that there happy. I mean they both lost their fathers fortunately for them they got to spend more time with them than what they probably would have if they signed somewhere else.

 

[57special]

And that is what screws up team chemistry. Some guys can mail it in with no repercussions, others have to look over their back on a nightly basis, fearing a benching or a trade. These NMC's are a disaster.

At least BB is less into the vet favoritism that Yeo displayed, but his hands are tied when it comes to contracts.

Everyone loses parents, friends, loved ones in their lives. That IS life. These guys have it made, unless they are idiots like Vanek and gamble it away, or get extremely bad luck like Harding.

Are some of you guys player's agent's?

 

[HollaHaula]

Let go of the pipedream that Pommer, Koivu, and Parise will just waive their contracts and allow us to move them. As much as I want to do that I know there is not really a chance of them waiving unless it was to a contending team and we sweetened the deal a lot. Otherwise, there is literally no reason for them to want to leave.

If you're going to be mad at someone, be mad at Fletcher for offering those contracts in the first place.

 

[ThatGuy22]

And that is what screws up team chemistry. Some guys can mail it in with no repercussions, others have to look over their back on a nightly basis, fearing a benching or a trade. These NMC's are a disaster.

At least BB is less into the vet favoritism that Yeo displayed, but his hands are tied when it comes to contracts.

And that's a fine opinion to have, but the anger should be pointed at Fletcher.

And for all intents and purposes, they really only screw up the expansion draft for the time being. If Parise had the same contract wihout a NMC, he would be 100% as unmovable as with it. And it's not like Parise and even Pominville are mailing it in. They are obviously giving their all each night, results just aren't coming yet.

 

[Nharris31]

And that is what screws up team chemistry. Some guys can mail it in with no repercussions, others have to look over their back on a nightly basis, fearing a benching or a trade. These NMC's are a disaster.

At least BB is less into the vet favoritism that Yeo displayed, but his hands are tied when it comes to contracts.

Everyone loses parents, friends, loved ones in their lives. That IS life. These guys have it made, unless they are idiots like Vanek and gamble it away, or get extremely bad luck like Harding.

Are some of you guys player's agent's?

No I'm not I just respect that people have feelings and Families weather they are rich or poor. I'm not even the biggest Fan of Parise.

 

[57special]

Let go of the pipedream that Pommer, Koivu, and Parise will just waive their contracts and allow us to move them. As much as I want to do that I know there is not really a chance of them waiving unless it was to a contending team and we sweetened the deal a lot. Otherwise, there is literally no reason for them to want to leave.

If you're going to be mad at someone, be mad at Fletcher for offering those contracts in the first place.

And that's a fine opinion to have, but the anger should be pointed at Fletcher.

And for all intents and purposes, they really only screw up the expansion draft for the time being. If Parise had the same contract wihout a NMC, he would be 100% as unmovable as with it. And it's not like Parise and even Pominville are mailing it in. They are obviously giving their all each night, results just aren't coming yet.

OK, I'll send Fletcher some hate mail. Wasn't happy to see that he handed Spurgeon a NTC, either. Creates divisions in the locker room. I think players get it when it's a superstar like a Crosby, Ovi, or McDavid, but Pominville? Spurgeon?

I hope Parise gets healthy, but if not his contract is looking terrible.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Koivu's contract was exactly where it should be.

Parise contract is going to kill us but it was needed to sign Suter.

Pominville's contract was a nightmare before it even started. RHS, RW goal scorers are rare, and we gave up a lot to get him, so I know why Fletcher felt the need to offer that deal, but it was a major mistake.

 

[ThatGuy22]

OK, I'll send Fletcher some hate mail. Wasn't happy to see that he handed Spurgeon a NTC, either. Creates divisions in the locker room. I think players get it when it's a superstar like a Crosby, Ovi, or McDavid, but Pominville? Spurgeon?

I hope Parise gets healthy, but if not his contract is looking terrible.

I guess I dont mind a 10 team protection for a good soldier like Spurgeon. Especially on a short term contract. Just a little guarantee for him you won't send him to a complete bottom feeder.

 

[Nharris31]

Koivu's contract was exactly where it should be.

Parise contract is going to kill us but it was needed to sign Suter.

Pominville's contract was a nightmare before it even started. RHS, RW goal scorers are rare, and we gave up a lot to get him, so I know why Fletcher felt the need to offer that deal, but it was a major mistake.

I think people forget he scored 30 goals the year before he signed is contract.

 

[ThatGuy22]

I think people forget he scored 30 goals the year before he signed is contract.

Funny enough, he signed the extension before he put up 30 goals with us. He signed it in October before going 30-30 in the final year of his old contract.

 

[HollaHaula]

I think people forget he scored 30 goals the year before he signed is contract.

Problem was he was already 30 years old and exiting his prime. A 6-year deal at $5.6 million per year wasn't smart by Fletcher.

 

[Nharris31]

Funny enough, he signed the extension before he put up 30 goals with us. He signed it in October before going 30-30 in the final year of his old contract.

Oh that's right people do still forget that he did score 30 goals for the wild. Also I don't think it is a good contract.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Problem was he was already 30 years old and exiting his prime. A 6-year deal at $5.6 million per year wasn't smart by Fletcher.

This. There are enough statistics now to show that offensive forwards decline after 27.

 

[Wild11MN]

This. There are enough statistics now to show that offensive forwards decline after 27.

Which is right around when most players become free agents. Oh, the false hopes of free agency (usually).

 

[Dee Oh Cee]

The problem...mainly for players is that more and more teams are probably figuring this out when it comes to player primes. Really good players get stuck - they are RFA's under team control during their prime years (think Trouba, but I'm sure there are other examples) and they end up not having much of a choice if they want to play and take short 'cheap' (compared to what they are worth) bridge deals/etc. Then, once they get to 27-28 years old I wonder if the demand is going to start going down and the huge FA paydays start to go away. When are the mid-20s stars going to get the big contracts they deserve?

Should be interesting...league is getting younger. Teams aren't signing those old UFA's as much any more. Right now, the system can be exploited by owner's/teams to get as much as they can out of their young start players for cheap then discard them once they get to UFA. Lockout 3.0 here we come?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

NTC's and NMC's are contract bargaining points same as length and dollars. Play hardball on the clause and you're probably going to have to pay up in other areas.

I have no issue with players exercising their negotiated rights; and I don't really have an issue with Fletcher occasionally giving in on them to build a team.

 

[ThatGuy22]

The problem...mainly for players is that more and more teams are probably figuring this out when it comes to player primes. Really good players get stuck - they are RFA's under team control during their prime years (think Trouba, but I'm sure there are other examples) and they end up not having much of a choice if they want to play and take short 'cheap' (compared to what they are worth) bridge deals/etc. Then, once they get to 27-28 years old I wonder if the demand is going to start going down and the huge FA paydays start to go away. When are the mid-20s stars going to get the big contracts they deserve?

Should be interesting...league is getting younger. Teams aren't signing those old UFA's as much any more. Right now, the system can be exploited by owner's/teams to get as much as they can out of their young start players for cheap then discard them once they get to UFA. Lockout 3.0 here we come?

High end UFAs (or pending) are always going to get paid, which all of the contracts we gave out were. Whats going to go the way of the Dodo for the most part, is term and money on vet bottom 6/bottom pair guys, who are replaced by ELCs/RFAs.

Say what you want about Pominville's contract. He's got the exact same contract, if not more, with someone else via UFA after putting up 30-30.

 

[nickschultzfan]

The problem...mainly for players is that more and more teams are probably figuring this out when it comes to player primes. Really good players get stuck - they are RFA's under team control during their prime years (think Trouba, but I'm sure there are other examples) and they end up not having much of a choice if they want to play and take short 'cheap' (compared to what they are worth) bridge deals/etc. Then, once they get to 27-28 years old I wonder if the demand is going to start going down and the huge FA paydays start to go away. When are the mid-20s stars going to get the big contracts they deserve?

Should be interesting...league is getting younger. Teams aren't signing those old UFA's as much any more. Right now, the system can be exploited by owner's/teams to get as much as they can out of their young start players for cheap then discard them once they get to UFA. Lockout 3.0 here we come?

How is this different from the NFL?

At least with the NHL every player gets at least 1 free agent contract around 27 to earn maximum pay.

And the NHL won't reduce the free agency age because that is another protection for small market teams, and they already have a hard enough time keeping players with agents now demanding trades and threatening offer-sheets.