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Speculation: Trade Ideas and Free Agency X

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thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,255
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Minnesota said:
I still think Coyle is going to be a late bloomer... A David Backes type.
Click to expand...

I can only hope that Coyle is a late bloomer but his goal productivity has gone down every year. Furthermore, this regime is dead set on making him more defensively responsible and sacrificing a bit of offense for defense.

Coyle isn't movable because of his extension. At this point, Minnesota really doesn't have anything to move unless they get a guy like Koivu or Poms to waive their NTC.
 
tomgilbertfan

tomgilbertfan

#WhyBother
Jun 22, 2008
16,024
268
Minnesota
thestonedkoala said:
I can only hope that Coyle is a late bloomer but his productivity has gone down every year. Furthermore, this regime is dead set on making him more defensively responsible and sacrificing a bit of offense for defense.

Coyle isn't movable because of his extension. At this point, Minnesota really doesn't have anything to move unless they get a guy like Koivu or Poms to waive their NTC.
Click to expand...

That's just not true.

PTS/game
0.38
0.43
0.40

Production
39:49
39:53
37:44
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,255
1,617
tomgilbertfan said:
That's just not true.

PTS/game
0.38
0.43
0.40

Production
39:49
39:53
37:44
Click to expand...

Sorry meant goals (and I changed it).

His first season in 37 games, he scored 8 goals. In his second season, he scored 12 goals in 70 games (and getting more ice time). This season, he's scored 6 in 50, so far with about the same ice time as he had in his rookie season. We're not expecting a 25 goal scorer anymore out of Coyle but if he can hit between 18-22 a season now, that would be fantastic.

He's getting more assists, but scoring less goals.
 
rynryn

rynryn

Reluctant Optimist. Permanently Déclassé.
May 29, 2008
33,327
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Minny
Coyle is (or was--haven't checked recently) near the top in hits on the team and blocked shots for forwards, is big, young, can play center or wing, and can hold on to the puck. what the **** are we going to get back for him that'd help us?

Likewise Zucker. We don't have any holes that need filling badly enough to trade either one. Just be cautious with the Zucker love, people. Remember Haula. Not saying he's forever stuck at the level he's been playing this year but based off a half-season of great play you can't project greatness into the future. Both he and Coyle are tradeable if it comes down to it. There's no reason to trade either right now, but they're not untouchable.
 
Dr Jan Itor

Dr Jan Itor

Registered User
Dec 10, 2009
45,314
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thestonedkoala said:
Sorry meant goals (and I changed it).

His first season in 37 games, he scored 8 goals. In his second season, he scored 12 goals in 70 games (and getting more ice time). This season, he's scored 6 in 50, so far with about the same ice time as he had in his rookie season. We're not expecting a 25 goal scorer anymore out of Coyle but if he can hit between 18-22 a season now, that would be fantastic.

He's getting more assists, but scoring less goals.
Click to expand...

He's also not riding shotgun on a Parise/Koivu line anymore, so a "re-setting" of his production isn't all that unusual.
 
Wild11MN

Wild11MN

First round losers
May 28, 2013
13,217
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MN
rynryn said:
Coyle is (or was--haven't checked recently) near the top in hits on the team and blocked shots for forwards, is big, young, can play center or wing, and can hold on to the puck. what the **** are we going to get back for him that'd help us?

Likewise Zucker. We don't have any holes that need filling badly enough to trade either one. Just be cautious with the Zucker love, people. Remember Haula. Not saying he's forever stuck at the level he's been playing this year but based off a half-season of great play you can't project greatness into the future. Both he and Coyle are tradeable if it comes down to it. There's no reason to trade either right now, but they're not untouchable.
Click to expand...

Love the guy, but true. I think this isn't much below his ceiling, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see his production drop. Hope not though.

As for Coyle, it's too early to give up, especially for the type of player he is. Give him two years before shipping him off I'd say.

Dr Jan Itor said:
He's also not riding shotgun on a Parise/Koivu line anymore, so a "re-setting" of his production isn't all that unusual.
Click to expand...

Also a good point.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,255
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BTW, if I'm reading this right (and I can't find any information contrary to what I am reading), even if we buy out Backstrom next year, his 3.42 million dollar salary will still count toward the cap. I'm not certain if the 1.5 million will carry over next season but whoever brought up the 35 and over rule was onto something here if they didn't modify it in the last CBA negotiations.

I found this:

Giguere said the Avs will not buy out the contracts of currently signed players, including Pierre Turgeon, Patrice Brisebois or Brad May. Part of the reason, Giguere said, is because any player who is 35 or older when his contract is bought out has his full salary count against the salary cap. Turgeon and Brisebois are older than 35, and May will be 35 in November.
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http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_4003935

I haven't seen any information otherwise that says this isn't the case. What I'm not certain is if that carries into the next season or not. But it appears that if we do buyout Backstrom, we'll be hit for 3.42 million of dead cap space next year.
 
Spurgeon

Spurgeon

Registered User
Nov 25, 2014
5,957
1,950
MinneSNOWta
thestonedkoala said:
BTW, if I'm reading this right (and I can't find any information contrary to what I am reading), even if we buy out Backstrom next year, his 3.42 million dollar salary will still count toward the cap. I'm not certain if the 1.5 million will carry over next season but whoever brought up the 35 and over rule was onto something here if they didn't modify it in the last CBA negotiations.

I found this:



http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_4003935

I haven't seen any information otherwise that says this isn't the case. What I'm not certain is if that carries into the next season or not. But it appears that if we do buyout Backstrom, we'll be hit for 3.42 million of dead cap space next year.
Click to expand...

That article is from 2006.

It wouldn't be his full contract.
 

thestonedkoala

Going Dark
Aug 27, 2004
28,255
1,617
Granlund 64 said:
Article is from 2006...

With the new CBA the only age that means anything is 26.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2014/6/14/5809612/nhl-buyout-rules-cba-refresher
Click to expand...

That is actually for the compliance buyout which I believe was slightly different than a regular buyout.

Aha! It's still in compliance:

The CBA also contains a 35-and-over rule, sometimes referred to as the Mogilny rule.[8] This rule states that if a player signs a multi-year deal when the player is 35 or older, starting in the second year of the contract, that amount will count towards the team's salary cap regardless of whether the player is on the active roster or not (unless the player is on long-term injured reserve); this provision remains in effect for the 2013 CBA. This is designed to keep teams from signing older players to lucrative front-loaded contracts, thus saving cap room, in which there is no expectation the player will actually play in the latter years.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHL_salary_cap

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1766951

Since Backstrom did play in his second year of his contract, his salary counts toward the cap next season regardless if he plays or not.
 
Granlund 64

Granlund 64

Registered User
Mar 17, 2012
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0
Stillwater, MN
Granlund 64

Granlund 64

Registered User
Mar 17, 2012
1,687
0
Stillwater, MN
Nice cherry picking too. From the same Wikipedia article you linked, but decided not to quote:

The 35 rule clarified. In an email to CapGeek, the NHL informed them (prior to the 2013 CBA - and now in the 2013 CBA) - a player who signs a contract as a 35 plus can be bought out as a compliance buyout, or, as a regular buyout. As a regular buyout, only the buyout portion of that contract counts towards the cap
Click to expand...
 
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