Speculation: Trade Deadline Rumors/Speculation Part II

[rangerssharks414]

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Speculation: - TDL rumors/speculation

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[TomasHertlsRooster]

So yesterday I said due diligence..... but we continue to show up. Could it possibly be one of the big fish? Like you, I see no one else we’d be remotely interested in whatsoever.

Like, I don’t even see an Eric Fehr type 4C on their roster that we would be interested in. Hanzal makes too much money and Faksa would likely hold too much value to them.

We also scouted their AHL team, so it’s possible that they’re more looking to buy from us, but, IDK what they’re in the market for.

 

[SharksAddict]

 

[Dicdonya]

@JoeThorntonsRooster "Duchene is one of the top 5V5 point scoring players in the NHL over the past 13 months."

For a guy that has been in the NHL for 10 seasons, I do not accept a 13 month period as a new normal for the guy. If you want to, go for it, but until I see more than a single years worth of good play, in a contract year mind you, I will not be changing my mind about him being a Cooch type center. Good player, but not a first line, cup champion caliber first line center.

 

[FunkyPhin]

I reeeally hope it's not brassard

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

@JoeThorntonsRooster "Duchene is one of the top 5V5 point scoring players in the NHL over the past 13 months."

For a guy that has been in the NHL for 10 seasons, I do not accept a 13 month period as a new normal for the guy. If you want to, go for it, but until I see more than a single years worth of good play, in a contract year mind you, I will not be changing my mind about him being a Cooch type center. Good player, but not a first line, cup champion caliber first line center.

I don’t accept it as a new norm for him, but he’s done it over an 85 game, 13 month sample size. The only centers to score more than him at 5V5 since 1/1/18 are Crosby, MacKinnon, McDavid, and Malkin. You can’t bring up Kane’s historically strong EV goal scoring as a unique strength and then ignore that Duchene has put up even more impressive 5V5 point scoring over the past 13 months.

I’m not a huge fan of him either and I would much prefer Stone or Panarin, but give some credit where credit is due.

 

[SharksAddict]

I reeeally hope it's not brassard

Same. Long list of guys I’d prefer over him: Simmonds, Zucc, Hayes, Johansson, Toffoli, etc. Not including guys like Duchene or Panarin as no comparison obviously.

 

[KirbyDots]

I took a good, hard look at that roster, and I have no idea who we would be interested in. Outside of players that are obviously untouchable, there is nobody that interests me.

Seguin and Radulov are great but pretty unrealistic unless there's something we don't know. Depth move wise Faksa or Janmark, and maybe Spezza.

 

[WSS11]

I honestly wouldn’t mind brassard if he came cheap. Panarin is going to be too expensive and Duchene probably will be too.

 

[Alaskanice]

I honestly wouldn’t mind brassard if he came cheap. Panarin is going to be too expensive and Duchene probably will be too.

I agree. I think he could be quite effective and we wouldn’t have to give up as much. I think Florida might be helpful because we helped them on the Hoffman deal.

 

[Dicdonya]

I don’t accept it as a new norm for him, but he’s done it over an 85 game, 13 month sample size. The only centers to score more than him at 5V5 since 1/1/18 are Crosby, MacKinnon, McDavid, and Malkin. You can’t bring up Kane’s historically strong EV goal scoring as a unique strength and then ignore that Duchene has put up even more impressive 5V5 point scoring over the past 13 months.

I’m not a huge fan of him either and I would much prefer Stone or Panarin, but give some credit where credit is due.

I do not think I have taken credit away from him, I think I just do not heap credit upon him like some for a good period of hockey in a 10 year career, in which the period you have chosen, I assume randomly, mainly consists of a contract year.

Me saying he is not worth 8mil a year, and absolutely should not be turning his nose up at the mere thought of it, if that is what OTT is actually offering, is not taking credit away from him.

Me not wanting to spend assets on a guy that is not a superstar, or really even a big points/goal scorer is not taking credit away from him. I commend him for having a good stretch of hockey, but I do not buy it that this is the real Duchene after 9 years of up and down middle of the pack production.

 

[SharksAddict]

I agree. I think he could be quite effective and we wouldn’t have to give up as much. I think Florida might be helpful because we helped them on the Hoffman deal.

I’m just not sure how he fits if they keep rolling Couture/Hertl/Jumbo down the middle. Can’t see Jumbo or Brassard centering 4th line. Not sure how effective he’d be on the wing.

 

[one2gamble]

I mean he's a 50-60 point player over the last decade......he's good but really that 8 mil offer is about right and only because he's a center.

I don’t accept it as a new norm for him, but he’s done it over an 85 game, 13 month sample size. The only centers to score more than him at 5V5 since 1/1/18 are Crosby, MacKinnon, McDavid, and Malkin. You can’t bring up Kane’s historically strong EV goal scoring as a unique strength and then ignore that Duchene has put up even more impressive 5V5 point scoring over the past 13 months.

I’m not a huge fan of him either and I would much prefer Stone or Panarin, but give some credit where credit is due.

60

 

[WSS11]

I’m just not sure how he fits if they keep rolling Couture/Hertl/Jumbo down the middle. Can’t see Jumbo or Brassard centering 4th line. Not sure how effective he’d be on the wing.

Why not? Goodrow obviously isn’t the answer at 4C. If we’re not going to play Shovels then Brassard could be very valuable

 

[SharksAddict]

Why not? Goodrow obviously isn’t the answer at 4C. If we’re not going to play Shovels then Brassard could be very valuable

Don’t think Brassard would be too thrilled with it honestly. But yes he’d be a big upgrade over their other 4C options.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think Brassard as a 4C rental is fine but we should be able to do better than that to be honest. I mean if we add Dzingel/Zucc AND Brassard, its fine but Brassard by himself does not do that much to improve our team.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I mean he's a 50-60 point player over the last decade......he's good but really that 8 mil offer is about right and only because he's a center.

60

Don’t underestimate the effect of playing for Patrick Roy and that toxic Avalanche organization. Look what Nathan MacKinnon did in his second season without Roy. Not convinced there’s anything there and I didn’t monitor the situations closely but I don’t know if that’s a coincidence.

He’s producing so much better than Couture and Johansen who got 8X8. He’s worth more.

Why not? Goodrow obviously isn’t the answer at 4C. If we’re not going to play Shovels then Brassard could be very valuable

I agree that Goodrow isn’t the answer there. Not sure Brassard would be any better in that role than somebody like Fehr. But i wouldn’t hate Brassard as a low cost 3C to play with Pavelski and bump Thornton down to the 4th line.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Don’t underestimate the effect of playing for Patrick Roy and that toxic Avalanche organization. Look what Nathan MacKinnon did in his second season without Roy. Not convinced there’s anything there and I didn’t monitor the situations closely but I don’t know if that’s a coincidence.

He’s producing so much better than Couture and Johansen who got 8X8. He’s worth more.



I agree that Goodrow isn’t the answer there. Not sure Brassard would be any better in that role than somebody like Fehr. But i wouldn’t hate Brassard as a low cost 3C to play with Pavelski and bump Thornton down to the 4th line.

I am not sure what makes you think that Brassard pushes Jumbo down to 4C based on how each of them have played this year.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I am not sure what makes you think that Brassard pushes Jumbo down to 4C based on how each of them have played this year.

The fact that Jumbo and Pavelski together is an absolute nightmare and has been all year.

If we add Brassard, then ideally we acquire one more winger (at the expense of 62) and do this:

Kane-Hertl-New Winger
Meier-Couture-Donskoi
Radil-Brassard-Pavelski
Sorensen-Thornton-Karlsson

 

[Limekiller]

Hell, I wouldn't mind us bringing Eric Fehr back again. I still can't believe that some people were screaming up and down that it was a huge waste of assets when we acquired him for a 7th in 2021 or whatever it was. I guess they thought it was an un-fehr price or something.

Seriously, though, he'd be fine back as our #4C, and probably cheaper than Brassard would be. Plus, we know he can play in our system, since he's done it. We have no clue how Brassard would do.

As for the bigger fish, since it seems DW has a good relationship with Dorion, it really wouldn't surprise me if we landed Duchene or Stone. (or Dzingel, I suppose). Obviously Panarin would be the holy grail, but I don't think we have the pieces to make that happen without parting with Meier+, and that price for a rental is *not* worth it. If we already have a deal worked out with EK65 and know his AAV, and can work out an extension with Panarin that fits both into our salary structure, then OK, I probably part with Meier. But not as for a rental. Nevertheless, I think a package built around Labanc + Roy + 2nd + something is a pretty competitive package to go for one of the bigger fish that aren't Panarin.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The fact that Jumbo and Pavelski together is an absolute nightmare and has been all year.

If we add Brassard, then ideally we acquire one more winger (at the expense of 62) and do this:

Kane-Hertl-New Winger
Meier-Couture-Donskoi
Radil-Brassard-Pavelski
Sorensen-Thornton-Karlsson

So you are downgrading the 3C so that Pavs fits better there? Seems counter-productive to me.

 

[Dicdonya]

Don’t underestimate the effect of playing for Patrick Roy and that toxic Avalanche organization. Look what Nathan MacKinnon did in his second season without Roy. Not convinced there’s anything there and I didn’t monitor the situations closely but I don’t know if that’s a coincidence.

He’s producing so much better than Couture and Johansen who got 8X8. He’s worth more.

Cooch and Johansen were not worth that much, and so maybe Duchene might be. I think Cooch's is the worst contract of all the big ones DW gave out, even with Vlasic's struggles lately. I may turn out to be wrong, but I think Cooch falls off much sooner then Kane, Vlasic, or Burns, and 60 pt centers are not worth 8 mil to me in the first place even with some contract inflation lately.

So even though I agree Duchene has been producing better, still does not mean 8 mil is a crap offer for him. If its because its OTT making it, then just don't sign there, instead of making it seem like they are not offering you a reasonable contract.

I am not sure what makes you think that Brassard pushes Jumbo down to 4C based on how each of them have played this year.

Yeah it seems kinda weird that Jumbo can be statistically doing pretty darn good for a 39yo third line center, who has had Sorenson strapped to him all year, along side either Pavs or Labanc mostly, and yet it feels like a ton of people want him demoted just cause. His points are low, but what do you really expect playing a 3rd line/2nd pp role with Sorenson most of the year.

If we did get someone like Brassard, I would hope they move Jumbo UP not down the lineup, and slot Brassard at 3c, Radil into the bottom 6 and Thornton with some of the top 6 guys, preferably Hertl.

 

[Sysreq]

In what world is Joe Pavelski a 3rd line player? And Jumbo is now our best bet for 4c? The hell is wrong with you guys.

Couture - Pavelski - Timo
Kane - Hertl - Donskoi
Sorenson - Thornton - TDL
Radil - Goodrow - Karlsson

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Cooch and Johansen were not worth that much, and so maybe Duchene might be. I think Cooch's is the worst contract of all the big ones DW gave out, even with Vlasic's struggles lately. I may turn out to be wrong, but I think Cooch falls off much sooner then Kane, Vlasic, or Burns, and 60 pt centers are not worth 8 mil to me in the first place even with some contract inflation lately.

So even though I agree Duchene has been producing better, still does not mean 8 mil is a crap offer for him. If its because its OTT making it, then just don't sign there, instead of making it seem like they are not offering you a reasonable contract.




Yeah it seems kinda weird that Jumbo can be statistically doing pretty darn good for a 39yo third line center, who has had Sorenson strapped to him all year, along side either Pavs or Labanc mostly, and yet it feels like a ton of people want him demoted just cause. His points are low, but what do you really expect playing a 3rd line/2nd pp role with Sorenson most of the year.

If we did get someone like Brassard, I would hope they move Jumbo UP not down the lineup, and slot Brassard at 3c, Radil into the bottom 6 and Thornton with some of the top 6 guys, preferably Hertl.

And that is my issues with seeing Brassard as 3C. Jumbo as 3C is exactly where he should be based on his level of play this year. Moving him into the top-6 does not help the team. But moving him to 4C is counter-productive too unless we have a real upgrade at 3C to do that. If we get Eric Staal, I can see pushing Jumbo down to 4C. But not someone like Brassard.

 

[SharksAddict]

In what world is Joe Pavelski a 3rd line player? And Jumbo is now our best bet for 4c? The hell is wrong with you guys.

Couture - Pavelski - Timo
Kane - Hertl - Donskoi
Sorenson - Thornton - TDL
Radil - Goodrow - Karlsson

Why I think a winger fits so much better with this team than Brassard. Another 2nd/3rd line center shuffles things up too much. If it’s Duchene ok fine great problem to have.