GDT: Trade Deadline Day

[ArGarBarGar]

Wings: 608 points
Bolts: 597 points

Sure they've gone on two deep runs, but no cups as of yet. He hasn't done anything too impressive considering the great situation he stepped into.

Great situation?

I'm not going to say Yzerman had nothing, but he wasn't flush with talented players, either.

 

[Retire91]

I still don't get the Yzerman hate. Guy was a couple games shy of a cup and has done a fine job down there. So they are having a crap season it happens. When you decline endlessly and still sign Vets every year to "go for it" that is the sign of a bad GM.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Great situation?

I'm not going to say Yzerman had nothing, but he wasn't flush with talented players, either.

Hedman and Stamkos were a pretty good start. I think he has done alright but his reputation kinda gets a bit overblown. None of the moves he has made tells me that he would have been able to get more out of the Wings than Holland has. And honestly being outside of a playoff spot in a year where they were supposed to be one of the top contenders just isn't acceptable. It's like the Wings missing the playoffs in 08 or something.

 

[Hockeyfan2390]

Holland defends deadline moves

I can't believe what I'm reading - he thinks they'll get right back at it next season and compete?

http://detroitsportsnation.com/detroit-red-wings/mwhitaker/ken-holland-defends-deadline-moves/91299/

 

[TheOtherOne]

So what are we outraged about this time? The fact that Ken said he made the best trades he could? The fact that he said the team is going to try harder next year?


I'm not feeling it.

 

[Tatar Shots]

Your right. He should have said 'we're going to suck this year and suck for the foreseeable future. Get ready to watch our team lose because that's what your going to see for years.'

What were you expecting him to say?

 

[FlashyG]

I can't believe what I'm reading - he thinks they'll get right back at it next season and compete?

http://detroitsportsnation.com/detroit-red-wings/mwhitaker/ken-holland-defends-deadline-moves/91299/

What else do you expect him to say? No GM in the league ever admits they are going to suck next year.

They especially don't do so when they are about to open a new arena.

Let's see what he does before we condemn him. If he tries to be a player in the Free Agent market this offseason then by all means let him have it.

I suspect that won't be the case though and barring some significant additions this team will be just as bad or worse next year.

 

[grewalwings]

He never once said that the wings were going for a full on rebuild, we still have some strong pieces, not the best, not ones that will take us to the cup. But I don't think it would be good business wise not to make a push for the playoffs (even though they won't get anywhere with it) with the new arena and everything.

 

[Mijatovic]

So is that a wrap? No more trades?

 

[grewalwings]

So is that a wrap? No more trades?

deadline ended at 3pm EST, doubt there will be any more trades from Kenny till the draft

 

[Reddwit]

He never once said that the wings were going for a full on rebuild, we still have some strong pieces, not the best, not ones that will take us to the cup. But I don't think it would be good business wise not to make a push for the playoffs (even though they won't get anywhere with it) with the new arena and everything.

The new arena will sell itself next year. And the Joe is selling itself this year. This two year stretch is a god-given gift as far as insulating their financial losses goes and Holland is still struggling to see it.

 

[Winger98]

What else do you expect him to say? No GM in the league ever admits they are going to suck next year.

They especially don't do so when they are about to open a new arena.

Let's see what he does before we condemn him. If he tries to be a player in the Free Agent market this offseason then by all means let him have it.

I suspect that won't be the case though and barring some significant additions this team will be just as bad or worse next year.

A GM could talk about a shifting focus or direction for the coming year while still icing a competitive team (though not necessarily being competitive). Instead, we're essentially hearing Holland say we've had a bump in the road and it'll be back to fighting for that wild card spot next year. And I don't think he's necessarily wrong.

Even with how bad we've been this year, we could easily drop out of the top5 of the draft. And with some bad luck (or good, depending on how you're looking at it) we could even drop out of the top10. We're tied for fifth worst now, and there are a handful of teams not too far ahead, and that's without counting Vegas.

Next year, I fully expect there to be another massive cluster around the bubble and if our kids progress a bit, we get a bit lucky, maybe our goaltending doesn't fall off the table for several months...finding ourselves in that group picking in the 14-18 no-man's land spot in the draft looks frustratingly possible.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

From my understanding, the Steve Downie deal only came about because the Avs wouldn't trade with the Wings so Holland got Yzerman to make the deal for him and paid a premium to get the defenceman he wanted. Yzerman deserves credit for getting great value for helping a friend, but it's not like he hatched some master plan to offload Downie.

Who benefited most from that deal?


He turned Downie into a 1st.


He offloaded Filppula's contract for a conditional 7th.


Do you think he just lucked into either deal?


He's three steps ahead of every GM out there.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

A GM could talk about a shifting focus or direction for the coming year while still icing a competitive team (though not necessarily being competitive). Instead, we're essentially hearing Holland say we've had a bump in the road and it'll be back to fighting for that wild card spot next year. And I don't think he's necessarily wrong.

Even with how bad we've been this year, we could easily drop out of the top5 of the draft. And with some bad luck (or good, depending on how you're looking at it) we could even drop out of the top10. We're tied for fifth worst now, and there are a handful of teams not too far ahead, and that's without counting Vegas.

Next year, I fully expect there to be another massive cluster around the bubble and if our kids progress a bit, we get a bit lucky, maybe our goaltending doesn't fall off the table for several months...finding ourselves in that group picking in the 14-18 no-man's land spot in the draft looks frustratingly possible.

Yeah, man... we should totally root for our young players to not take a step forward... so we can draft other young players.

Or maybe the Wings scouts can get off of their ***** and make something of all the draft picks they've had. Make something of the ten we have this year. Instead of hoping and praying that this the year we suck bad enough to get lucky, why don't we hope that the Wings just get a consistent message and utilize their picks to their advantage.

I mean, there are six other rounds of picks. And while it is a statistical longshot that any player pick there is worth a damn... there have been enough successes that it is embarrassing that it gets written off and excused for failure so easily.

 

[Winger98]

Yeah, man... we should totally root for our young players to not take a step forward... so we can draft other young players.

Or maybe the Wings scouts can get off of their ***** and make something of all the draft picks they've had. Make something of the ten we have this year. Instead of hoping and praying that this the year we suck bad enough to get lucky, why don't we hope that the Wings just get a consistent message and utilize their picks to their advantage.

I mean, there are six other rounds of picks. And while it is a statistical longshot that any player pick there is worth a damn... there have been enough successes that it is embarrassing that it gets written off and excused for failure so easily.

That's entirely not what I said or have been saying. I think our scouts work hard and we unearth our fair share of players throughout the draft. We haven't been able to find a Weber or Keith but a lot of teams haven't found those guys. You're right, it's a statistical long shot, and part of it is that we just haven't been lucky.

That said, the only way to improving our odds is either through more picks (which Kenny gets credit for finally pursuing in earnest this year) or to pick higher. Most people are pushing for a rebuild, and all that I'm saying is that it's probably not going to happen because I don't think we're really bad to the point, right now, of doing it without trying to do it.

I don't want the kids to fail or anything, but what I do want is to deal Gator, Helm, etc., which would probably guarantee us missing the playoffs, keep the kids, and make a concerted effort towards a rebuild. Because if we don't, we're a bubble team, and Kenny is going to push it, and we're going to have to rely on bucking the statistical odds to get those high-end pieces we need. Maybe we'll get lucky, but I think we are just prolonging the pain with that route.

 

[Dotter]

That's entirely not what I said or have been saying. I think our scouts work hard and we unearth our fair share of players throughout the draft. We haven't been able to find a Weber or Keith but a lot of teams haven't found those guys. You're right, it's a statistical long shot, and part of it is that we just haven't been lucky.

That said, the only way to improving our odds is either through more picks (which Kenny gets credit for finally pursuing in earnest this year) or to pick higher. Most people are pushing for a rebuild, and all that I'm saying is that it's probably not going to happen because I don't think we're really bad to the point, right now, of doing it without trying to do it.

I don't want the kids to fail or anything, but what I do want is to deal Gator, Helm, etc., which would probably guarantee us missing the playoffs, keep the kids, and make a concerted effort towards a rebuild. Because if we don't, we're a bubble team, and Kenny is going to push it, and we're going to have to rely on bucking the statistical odds to get those high-end pieces we need. Maybe we'll get lucky, but I think we are just prolonging the pain with that route.

That would put too much pressure on the kids. They need to be part of the organization to: 1) help with the pressure 2) leadership 3) role model for continued work ethics.

Those 3 examples probably don't mean much on NHL 17 by EA Sports, but in real life, it is important. Look no further than to the Oilers to see what happens when you develop a losing culture. It becomes a curse.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

That's entirely not what I said or have been saying. I think our scouts work hard and we unearth our fair share of players throughout the draft. We haven't been able to find a Weber or Keith but a lot of teams haven't found those guys. You're right, it's a statistical long shot, and part of it is that we just haven't been lucky.

That said, the only way to improving our odds is either through more picks (which Kenny gets credit for finally pursuing in earnest this year) or to pick higher. Most people are pushing for a rebuild, and all that I'm saying is that it's probably not going to happen because I don't think we're really bad to the point, right now, of doing it without trying to do it.

I don't want the kids to fail or anything, but what I do want is to deal Gator, Helm, etc., which would probably guarantee us missing the playoffs, keep the kids, and make a concerted effort towards a rebuild. Because if we don't, we're a bubble team, and Kenny is going to push it, and we're going to have to rely on bucking the statistical odds to get those high-end pieces we need. Maybe we'll get lucky, but I think we are just prolonging the pain with that route.

Agreed.

My fear is that Holland views the picks as tradeable assets rather than future assets.

I don't mind if he turns the 3rd rounders into more picks.

Basically I'm hoping he picks with his picks.

 

[chances14]

Agreed.

My fear is that Holland views the picks as tradeable assets rather than future assets.

I don't mind if he turns the 3rd rounders into more picks.

Basically I'm hoping he picks with his picks.

from what i've gathered from holland in the media the last few days, it seems that he wants those draft picks for drafting purposes.

We'll see what happens but i am cautiously optimistic

 

[Winger98]

That would put too much pressure on the kids. They need to be part of the organization to: 1) help with the pressure 2) leadership 3) role model for continued work ethics.

Those 3 examples probably don't mean much on NHL 17 by EA Sports, but in real life, it is important. Look no further than to the Oilers to see what happens when you develop a losing culture. It becomes a curse.

The Oilers are a good example of how hard it is to rebuild regardless of where you pick, nothing more. Did McDavid magically make their culture a winning culture? Or Larsson? Or McLellen? No, but they finally got the right pieces.

And define kids. We get rid of Helm, Gator, Ericsson, and we'll assume Green but more because we'll likely get something good for him rather than we just want to dump him. We still have Z. We still have Nyquist, who is 27. Tatar's 26. Glendening is 27. Sheahan is 25. Or ditch Sheahan and keep Nielsen, he's 32.

These guys aren't kids. And if their work ethic is bad as 27 year old...it's not going to get better this summer because we still have Helm and his extra three years of being on this earth.

Agreed.

My fear is that Holland views the picks as tradeable assets rather than future assets.

I don't mind if he turns the 3rd rounders into more picks.

Basically I'm hoping he picks with his picks.

It depends who he trades for, though that's an obvious response. I'd be fine burning a pick or two to get Helm/Gator/Ericsson off our team. I just don't think we turn a corner until they're gone.

I want to see us making those picks or turning them into more picks, though, too. When we did the prospect ranking here the past few weeks, it was glaring to me how I just wasn't excited about the vast majority of our prospects. We need more kicks at that can.

 

[Heaton]

I'm happy with the extra picks, but if Holland goes into next year thinking the goal should be 2nd wildcard, he still isn't serious about building this team properly. We need at least two years of high picks, this team is nowhere close to contending and none of the kids are close to being elite.

As long As Z leads this team in points by a mile, we're not going anywhere.

 

[Flowah]

What else do you expect him to say? No GM in the league ever admits they are going to suck next year.

Didn't Shanahan say that? Didn't Babcock say that? Some people are realistic about what they think their team will be and aren't too afraid to tell people about it honestly.

 

[The Zermanator]

From the article:

Holland said. “Our plan this summer is to make some tweaks and be back in the mix next year. We have some good pieces, some good players, but our record at this point is disappointing.â€

Is he fooling others or himself? A #1 centre and #1 D (and a #2 honestly) are 'tweaks'?

 

[Leronziia]

By mix, he probably means fighting for that last wildcard spot again.

I really don't want to go back there yet without the pieces to go a few steps farther.

 

[Pavels Dog]

I'm happy with the extra picks, but if Holland goes into next year thinking the goal should be 2nd wildcard, he still isn't serious about building this team properly. We need at least two years of high picks, this team is nowhere close to contending and none of the kids are close to being elite.

As long As Z leads this team in points by a mile, we're not going anywhere.

We should never set the goal to suck. Holland can't do anything this summer that lands us several elite players. If none of our young players take steps forward and we don't get a coach that gets the best out of the roster we will still be very, very bad. You think Z is going to carry the team into the playoffs next year?
A couple of tweaks sounds about right. New coaching, maybe make a run at Shattenkirk (though he's obviously going to NYR), get Svech into the lineup, see what Russo/Hicketts/Hronek can do in camp, bring up Bert and Nosek. This team isn't going to just accidentally get into the playoffs unless we see some very good things from our young players.

 

[Reddwit]

Stevie learned the ropes from the best

Quincy to CBJ -

He is a poster boy for doing pretty much everything Holland doesn't do:

- Go to great lengths to trade cap when needed.
- Play hardball with his free agents who are asking too much.
- Actually makes trades of substance frequently.
- Trades big-name players when they don't fit his future.
- Doesn't hold back on making trades because it means admitting he made a mistake.