GDT: Trade Deadline Day

[The Zetterberg Era]

Well this apparently hall of fame stacked roster that Yzerman 'inherited was so hall of fame it missed the playoffs two season then suddenly started going deep.

Holland could have done the same had he made half the smart decisions Yzerman made especially when Lids was still where and Daytsuk and Zetterberg still had gas.

Instead Holland choose stop gap garbage vet signings and rentals and the result was I would trade the last 7 years of Yzerman without a millisecond's thought. Getting to hand Holland two of his well deserved first round exits. One of them with severe authority.

Yzerman is about to miss the playoffs with one of the best five d-man in the league. Has missed the playoffs a few times. Yzerman also didn't win the thing you would hold Holland to. So this is a tired analogy. Until Yzerman or Nill actually does what you would claim they would do it doesn't mean much. Heck they would also be in a tougher situation where they are flipping a culture they are already a part of not trying to destroy and willingly admit to copying Holland's strategy.

Look around and maybe that is the problem. The guys doing things the Red Wings way can all be golfing together on Easter Weekend this year. Maybe we shouldn't long for one of their returns but look outside our system.

 

[obey86]

All the slobknobbing over Yzerman is really annoying. At this point he's proven enough to be a solid GM, that's about it. I mean, the Rangers have accomplished just as much, if not more, than the Lightning have over the past 3-4 years and I don't see anyone ever talk about how great their management has done.

They missed their chance to win the cup. Even last year they weren't that good (6th seed), except for a miracle/unexpected playoff run.

 

[Bench]

I mean, the Rangers have accomplished just as much, if not more, than the Lightning have over the past 3-4 years and I don't see anyone ever talk about how great their management has done.

That's because the Rangers' GM wasn't groomed by the Wings and the face of the franchise. Yzerman and Nill are always going to be a point of comparison because people wanted one of them to take over.

Wow, Filppula looks great. Florida really treated him well.

 

[Winger98]

How are we going to limp into the playoffs without a #1C or #1D? Only reason we limped into the playoffs the last few years was because we had two #1Cs, a decent #1D and for the most part a good #1G. That time is over. And if Larkin becomes a #1C, Mantha a #1LW, Mrazek a legit #1G.. then we're not in terrible shape anymore even though it may only be enough to limp into the playoffs.

You don't think any of our Cs could be as productive as Turris? Or Stepan? Is Torey Krug really that much better than Green? Is Leddy?

We don't need Larkin or Mantha to be top line players next year to fight for the playoffs. We need a working power play and Tatar/Nyquist to perform at least close to expectations coming into this year.

It's been a miserable season and this team is shot full of holes, but so are most teams. Yeah, maybe we draft third next year, but it doesn't take anything unheard of to happen for us to be drafting 16th, either. The awfulness of this team continues to get overstated.

 

[obey86]

You don't think any of our Cs could be as productive as Turris? Or Stepan? Is Torey Krug really that much better than Green? Is Leddy?

We don't need Larkin or Mantha to be top line players next year to fight for the playoffs. We need a working power play and Tatar/Nyquist to perform at least close to expectations coming into this year.

It's been a miserable season and this team is shot full of holes, but so are most teams. Yeah, maybe we draft third next year, but it doesn't take anything unheard of to happen for us to be drafting 16th, either. The awfulness of this team continues to get overstated.

Agreed. This team could finish anywhere from bottom of the league to playoff bubble team next year with no changes. Comes down to how the young players progress, injuries, luck, etc.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

That's because the Rangers' GM wasn't groomed by the Wings and the face of the franchise. Yzerman and Nill are always going to be a point of comparison because people wanted one of them to take over.



Wow, Filppula looks great. Florida really treated him well.

What you mean after they handed him a contract most of us were happy not to see him get here?

Matt Carle's deal is bad. Extending Coburn looks like a bad decision. I think Yzerman deserves to be employed as a GM and there is some promise there. But lets stop pretending we should have tossed Holland on his ear after the back to back finals for him and that he has embarrassed us with Cup winning decisions or has near the same group down there. He isn't error free either, not even close so people should stop waxing poetically about him in this regard.

I would welcome Yzerman back with Holland upstairs. But I think at that point people would have to really evaluate him if they were going to be honest. I like his work, but he hasn't accomplished what most of the detractors want from Holland which is reach the mountain top or make moves to do that. The I only care about cups crowd should look at what Yzerman has done with the same slant, funny they don't do that...

I also have to wonder when looking around if maybe a slight change with some of the old input to go with a new angle wouldn't be good. Again I would really like them to land Fenton and move Holland upstairs. However, Holland has earned his right to call his departure or at least has several more years before the dial gets turned up and this week it sounds like an extension might be announced this summer in terms of Holland. That should be a fun day around these parts.

 

[Frk It]

Holland has earned his right to call his departure or at least has several more years before the dial gets turned up and this week it sounds like an extension might be announced this summer in terms of Holland. That should be a fun day around these parts.

And how would you feel about that? I mean we both joined this board around 2010... how many people have you seen change their tune in that time?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

And how would you feel about that? I mean we both joined this board around 2010... how many people have you seen change their tune in that time?

Not really sure how I will feel about that. I really appreciate what Holland has done all these years, I think he has earned the right to have the role he wants for a little longer. I don't look at it as six years of awful. I think we have really only been bad the last year and change. This team has been in a funk for an entire calendar year of awful at this point.

I don't think he is as awful as everyone else that is for sure. I won't be upset if he is extended. I have said I would prefer he stay very involved while moving upstairs, but bring in Fenton from Nashville and make him the ultimate decision maker GM. But I still want Holland in that room, I still believe in his hockey and people skills acumen.

 

[Heaton]

Not really sure how I will feel about that. I really appreciate what Holland has done all these years, I think he has earned the right to have the role he wants for a little longer. I don't look at it as six years of awful. I think we have really only been bad the last year and change. This team has been in a funk for an entire calendar year of awful at this point.

I don't think he is as awful as everyone else that is for sure. I won't be upset if he is extended. I have said I would prefer he stay very involved while moving upstairs, but bring in Fenton from Nashville and make him the ultimate decision maker GM. But I still want Holland in that room, I still believe in his hockey and people skills acumen.

I think being overly loyal has been a detriment ever since the lemon was squeezed of all the juice. I think there are plenty of examples where organizations were too loyal to their GMs who used to be ultra successful and they let them hang on too long to try and fix their mistakes.

I don't think Holland knows how to build a team from the ground up and I think that's why he's trying desperately to temper expectations and do whatever he can to make the playoffs and get back into his comfort zone. He's getting a lot of heat from the fans and local media, and I think he's uncomfortable with being questioned since for his entire career no one questioned a single thing he did.

If Holland spun a narrative about how this team needs to go a direction to get back to glory, everyone would get behind him and get excited about seeing the kids. But the Wings have iced a terrible product for years now and the new arena will only distract people for a couple months until the bad hockey takes the forefront.

Holland will never be forced out, but I worry about the damage he could do by delaying the inevitable.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think being overly loyal has been a detriment ever since the lemon was squeezed of all the juice. I think there are plenty of examples where organizations were too loyal to their GMs who used to be ultra successful and they let them hang on too long to try and fix their mistakes.

I don't think Holland knows how to build a team from the ground up and I think that's why he's trying desperately to temper expectations and do whatever he can to make the playoffs and get back into his comfort zone. He's getting a lot of heat from the fans and local media, and I think he's uncomfortable with being questioned since for his entire career no one questioned a single thing he did.

If Holland spun a narrative about how this team needs to go a direction to get back to glory, everyone would get behind him and get excited about seeing the kids. But the Wings have iced a terrible product for years now and the new arena will only distract people for a couple months until the bad hockey takes the forefront.

Holland will never be forced out, but I worry about the damage he could do by delaying the inevitable.

Basically the worst he can possibly become is how the Islanders feel about Bill Torrey.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Holland isn't entitled to be bad at his job because of his laurels.

 

[Go Wings]

All the slobknobbing over Yzerman is really annoying. At this point he's proven enough to be a solid GM, that's about it. I mean, the Rangers have accomplished just as much, if not more, than the Lightning have over the past 3-4 years and I don't see anyone ever talk about how great their management has done.

They missed their chance to win the cup. Even last year they weren't that good (6th seed), except for a miracle/unexpected playoff run.

The ranger GM just gave up a 3rd this year and a 2nd next for Brendan Smith, so dont expect people to say how "great" a job hes done.

 

[izlez]

The ranger GM just gave up a 3rd this year and a 2nd next for Brendan Smith, so dont expect people to say how "great" a job hes done.

And the Lightning GM just took his playoff bubble team and gave up a Vezina caliber goalie, 2 guys that have been important to their "success" over the last few years, and draft picks for a couple of non-first round draft picks and prospects.

Somehow this is viewed as doing as good as you possibly can do.

 

[Flowah]

And the Lightning GM just took his playoff bubble team and gave up a Vezina caliber goalie, 2 guys that have been important to their "success" over the last few years, and draft picks for a couple of non-first round draft picks and prospects.

Somehow this is viewed as doing as good as you possibly can do.

They have a great young goalie in Vasilevsky. It was a smart move. Bit of risk, but smart.

 

[Bench]

They have a great young goalie in Vasilevsky. It was a smart move. Bit of risk, but smart.

Drafted with the pick the Wings gave up for Kyle Quincey. Circle of life, Simba.

 

[Squirrel in the Hole]

And the Lightning GM just took his playoff bubble team and gave up a Vezina caliber goalie, 2 guys that have been important to their "success" over the last few years, and draft picks for a couple of non-first round draft picks and prospects.

Somehow this is viewed as doing as good as you possibly can do.

Yzerman has:


Turned Steve Downie into a 1st, that turned into his goalie of the future.


Ridded himself of a contract and gave himself a protection slot for a forward for a conditional 7th.


In the same space, Holland has:


Turned the 1st that turned into Tampa's goalie of the future into Kyle Quincey


Ridded himself of a similar contract (Weiss) through a buyout.


In today's NHL, EVERY GM will make bonehead mistakes and sign players to regrettable contracts, Yzerman has the chops and the smarts to get himself out of it. I might also point out that he kept Stamkos when they were already selling number 91 Maple Leafs sweaters in Toronto.


Holland did a respectable job with selling off, but nothing more. Yzerman is a cut above.

 

[Bench]

Holland did a respectable job with selling off, but nothing more. Yzerman is a cut above.

What I like about Yzerman is that he's shown he can be proactive, rather than simply reactive. Holland is so slow to react to the changing landscape of his roster.

Yzerman isn't perfect, but then again who is?

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

Yzerman is about to miss the playoffs with one of the best five d-man in the league. Has missed the playoffs a few times. Yzerman also didn't win the thing you would hold Holland to. So this is a tired analogy. Until Yzerman or Nill actually does what you would claim they would do it doesn't mean much. Heck they would also be in a tougher situation where they are flipping a culture they are already a part of not trying to destroy and willingly admit to copying Holland's strategy.

Look around and maybe that is the problem. The guys doing things the Red Wings way can all be golfing together on Easter Weekend this year. Maybe we shouldn't long for one of their returns but look outside our system.

This is my hope for the future as well. In a perfect world, this offseason I would like to see Holland "protired" to President, and expand the hockey operations side of the business. Add a new GM, an EVP, some new hockey advisors to breathe some new life into the organization.

Some names I'd be a fan of are Paul Fenton, Brian Poile, Guy Lapointe, Pat Kelleher and Igor Larionov. Of course you couldn't add all of these guys, as a new GM would want to bring in some of their own guys, but if you expand the table I think we get a better course for the rebuild.

 

[izlez]

Steve Yzerman's superstar A#1 goalie of the future: .912 save percentage in his first 74 NHL games.

Ken Holland's terrible at drafting, fire the GM now and pray to god he gets taken in the expansion draft goalie: .924 save percentage in his first full season (63 games).
(feel free to do the math to include the other 9 games he played sparingly in other seasons, it won't change much)


Clearly the right decision to get of the guy who is already a proven great NHL goalie.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Steve Yzerman's superstar A#1 goalie of the future: .912 save percentage in his first 74 NHL games.

Ken Holland's terrible at drafting, fire the GM now and pray to god he gets taken in the expansion draft goalie: .924 save percentage in his first full season (63 games).
(feel free to do the math to include the other 9 games he played sparingly in other seasons, it won't change much)


Clearly the right decision to get of the guy who is already a proven great NHL goalie.

howard is 10 years older than vasilevskiy. howard turned 26 on that first full season. vasi turns 23 this summer.

bishop is 8 yrs older, costs more in cap hit and actually had identical sv% this season in tampa as vasi did.

 

[Retire91]

Yzerman understands that holding on to stars too long leads to cap issues when you have cheaper replacements in your pool. Its a risk and it doesn't always work but its proactive. Something the wings have 'not' been. Sure it doesn't always work out but signing garbage vets season after season is known not to work. Yzerman is a cut above Holland anyway you look at it with one exception and you have to go back 10 years to get there.

I will take the proactive approach 10 times out of 10 rather than the known method for decline.

 

[SirloinUB]

Yzerman has:


Turned Steve Downie into a 1st, that turned into his goalie of the future.


Ridded himself of a contract and gave himself a protection slot for a forward for a conditional 7th.


In the same space, Holland has:


Turned the 1st that turned into Tampa's goalie of the future into Kyle Quincey


Ridded himself of a similar contract (Weiss) through a buyout.


In today's NHL, EVERY GM will make bonehead mistakes and sign players to regrettable contracts, Yzerman has the chops and the smarts to get himself out of it. I might also point out that he kept Stamkos when they were already selling number 91 Maple Leafs sweaters in Toronto.


Holland did a respectable job with selling off, but nothing more. Yzerman is a cut above.

Suggesting that Weiss and Filppula were anything close to "similar" is hilariously inaccurate. One is out of the league while the other is still a capable NHL level player.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Wow, Filppula looks great. Florida really treated him well.

I'm literally rolling.

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Suggesting that Weiss and Filppula were anything close to "similar" is hilariously inaccurate. One is out of the league while the other is still a capable NHL level player.

He was talking about their contracts I think man...

 

[SirloinUB]

He was talking about their contracts I think man...

Yea. One contract had trade value because he is capable player while the other suffered an unpredictable but career ending injury.

There is absolutely no basis to make conclusions about Holland vs Yzerman based on the handling of these two players.