Post-Game Talk: Trade Deadline Day/Week

[Hit the post]

We are going to have to give up some assets to get rid of some contracts. Simple as that. There’s no way around this situation. And it sounded like we almost dealt baertschi at deadline. So it’s not impossible. Time will tell.

I doubt we were that close in dumping Bae at the trade deadline. We didn't have a 2nd to deal and a 3rd round pick isn't enough to entice another team to take on that deal that runs into the next year imho. Still think the time to unload him is some team claiming him off of waivers near the trade deadline next season.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Our views differ......I'll play along however

I've tried to "guesstimate" potential salaries

Defense 21 mill - 14.9 mill assigned for 4 guys - Edler, Myers,Benn, Hughes - add in Fantenberg at 1 mill and that’s 16 mil. Add in Tryamkin that’s roughly 18mil Add in Rafferty and another another depth piece and that’s 21 mill

Forwards 41.2 mill between Eriksson, Horvat, Miller, Sutter, Pearson, Roussel, Beagle, Peterson, Boeser, and Ferland* (3.5 of which will most likely go on LTIR) **I’ve assumed we are free of Baertschi’s 2.3 mill cap hit here.

Goalies 4 mill Demko and ?

RFA 17.2 Virtanen 3.2, Motte 1.2, Gaudette 1.3, Toffoli 5.5 Tanev 5 MacEwan 1

Misc. 4 mill Spooner 1 Luongo Recapture 3

TOTAL 87.4 mill

FLAT CAP 81.5 - Difference of 5.9 Mill which is roughly putting Ferland on LTIR and one other player making 1.5 or more on LTIR - both very feasible options - we did a similar thing to start the year with Roussel etc.

I’m sure you know but we are allowed to exceed the cap by 10% in the offseason provided we are under by Oct 1. This does give us potentially another 2-3 mill to add a player that isn’t mentioned (assuming we find contracts to place on LTIR to start). This is also assuming your theory that the cap is going to be flat (which considering history is rather unlikely - a 2 mill bump and all of a sudden we aren't that far off from being able to add something decent to our team). I do agree it's best that we leave some wiggle room for the impending Petey and Hughes contracts however management is like a fat kid in a candy store with money in their wallet and I have my doubts that would happen.

As I said - things aren’t nearly as doom and gloom as people like to state. Things change in a hurry - yes i agree - paying players like Beagle 3 mill is not a great idea and I’d love to see us shed some bottom 6 salary however the only thing I’ve assumed in the above scenario is that we trade Baertschi - it’s very feasible that we do something like trade Sutter or someone else to get a bit more relief.

Feel free to correct any of my math as this was done in a hurry but I don't quite see things as being nearly as horrible as the doom and gloom capologists on this board would like to think they are. These aren't pie in the sky #'s I've thrown around - yeah we aren't going to add a Tyson Barrie to that group however we do have options other than staring at the wall with our fists raised screaming loudly.

I think that we need to look at moving Sutter probably with retention as he has one year left.
It comes down to deciding which of Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli we want to keep. I'd re-sign Markstrom and one of the other two assuming that we can move Baertschi and Sutter. Then trade one of Markstrom or Demko depending on how the year goes and sign a cheap backup and give Dipietro another year in the minors.
But I think that we are in a tough position going forward. Benning has to start clearing out bad contracts. A good start would be if he could move two this summer. Beagle and Eriksson unfortunately are unmoveable so he needs to start with the others. It will likely cost us assets imo or we will need to retain salary. It may not be doom and gloom but it is also significantly hampering what we can do to improve the team next year. There are some awful contracts on this team and far too many of them especially in light of the Luongo recapture.

If we want to be a true contender we need to compete with teams that aren't saddled with so many bad contracts. So far it hasn't been a huge impact because our star players are still on cheap contracts. But once that ends wee need to be using the cap much more wisely or we will be at a huge disadvantage to the well run teams.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I think that we need to look at moving Sutter probably with retention as he has one year left.
It comes down to deciding which of Tanev, Markstrom and Toffoli we want to keep. I'd re-sign Markstrom and one of the other two assuming that we can move Baertschi and Sutter. Then trade one of Markstrom or Demko depending on how the year goes and sign a cheap backup and give Dipietro another year in the minors.
But I think that we are in a tough position going forward. Benning has to start clearing out bad contracts. A good start would be if he could move two this summer. Beagle and Eriksson unfortunately are unmoveable so he needs to start with the others. It will likely cost us assets imo or we will need to retain salary. It may not be doom and gloom but it is also significantly hampering what we can do to improve the team next year. There are some awful contracts on this team and far too many of them especially in light of the Luongo recapture.

The next month is gonna most likely give us insight into whether or not we keep Markstrom and move on to Demko or not. Ideally Demko plays well enough to instill confidence in management to let him assume the top role. That's 3 mill or so savings right there.

Yes absolutely we have to move some contracts - at the very least I think he can get rid of Baer - something like Woo and a 4th or 5th etc. And as for Sutter, providing he doesn't get significantly hurt again, he would be another guy I think they would move - not even sure that he has a negative balance now (ie that we'd have to attach assets to get rid of him) and I really hope that even though he's a "foundational player" (eff what a joke) that Benning buckles up and trades him - preferably without a ton of salary coming back.

 

[xtra]

So we need to spend more assets (assuming we don’t want to retain salary) to keep this playoff bubble team around.

Assuming no salary back -

a second to move sutters 4.375 cap hit
A third or fourth in 2022 to move sven

yet people keep saying we are in good shape lol


Yikes even worse I just realized sutter has only played 36 games....who would want an injury prone 3rd line 4.375 player

 

[MS]

I find it fascinating that people could watch us not be able to move Eriksson, Baertschi, or Spooner (ending in a buyout) for the past year and then think that the team will magically make all their bad contracts disappear this summer.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I find it fascinating that people could watch us not be able to move Eriksson, Baertschi, or Spooner (ending in a buyout) for the past year and then think that the team will magically make all their bad contracts disappear this summer.

100$ bet Baertschi is gone by the time the first month of the season is over next year? Put your money where you mouth is.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I find it fascinating that people could watch us not be able to move Eriksson, Baertschi, or Spooner (ending in a buyout) for the past year

Every bad contract the Canucks have will be shorter. Many, such as Baertschi's and Sutter's, will be shorter by a significant proportion, making them much easier, although not necessarily that easy, to move.

... and then think that the team will magically make all their bad contracts disappear this summer.

No one has claimed this.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Every bad contract the Canucks have will be shorter. Many, such as Baertschi's and Sutter's, will be shorter by a significant proportion, making them much easier, although not necessarily that easy, to move.

No one has claimed this.

Agreed. Sutter will have one year and $3.5 million owed after his bonus. I think the key to improving the team will be trading one of Markstrom or Demko before the expansion draft for assets. Preferably a young D.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

a second to move sutters 4.375 cap hit
A third or fourth in 2022 to move sven

Let's be very clear here. The Boston Bruins just gave up a 1st round pick to move David Backes with 25% retained. So, a 1st round pick for 1 year of $4.5M (and that's not even getting into the Kase money they took back). Your prices won't even come close to getting it done.

 

[xtra]

100$ bet Baertschi is gone by the time the first month of the season is over next year? Put your money where you mouth is.

At what cost.

If you offer up podz and a first sure someone takes it on but the cost to give up the contract is the issue also.

also you get rid of that contract but do you take back another one so while the sven contract is gone we have a mven contract on the books

 

[MS]

100$ bet Baertschi is gone by the time the first month of the season is over next year? Put your money where you mouth is.

Oh, they may retain, or may buy him out, or may pay a substantial asset to get rid of him. But all of those scenarios suck. And even at that, if it was as easy as you're making out it would have already happened. They've been trying everything to get rid of him for almost a year. And he's the easiest of the contracts to move. Sutter and Eriksson? Good luck.

And Baertschi is $3 million of $30 million in bad contracts this team has. He's a drop in the bucket.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Let's be very clear here. The Boston Bruins just gave up a 1st round pick to move David Backes with 25% retained. So, a 1st round pick for 1 year of $4.5M (and that's not even getting into the Kase money they took back). Your prices won't even come close to getting it done.

David Backes can no longer play. Sutter, despite his injuries, is a useful 3rd liner scoring at a 35 point pace. Did you take this into account?

 

[xtra]

Let's be very clear here. The Boston Bruins just gave up a 1st round pick to move David Backes with 25% retained. So, a 1st round pick for 1 year of $4.5M (and that's not even getting into the Kase money they took back). Your prices won't even come close to getting it done.

oh don’t get my post wrong. I don’t believe we are getting rid of those contracts without some big pieces moving out (firsts,podz,hoglander woo etc)

I was giving an absurdly low number so the CoB brothers can’t derail it into a value discussion on the cost to get rid of them.

 

[xtra]

David Backes can no longer play. Sutter, despite his injuries, is a useful 3rd liner scoring at a 35 point pace. Did you take this into account?

So you expect a team to trade for sutter and just pay him (and his replacement) for no/few assets?

 

[MS]

Every bad contract the Canucks have will be shorter. Many, such as Baertschi's and Sutter's, will be shorter by a significant proportion, making them much easier, although not necessarily that easy, to move.

They'll be easier to move. Yes. But as you say, easier isn't easy.

Spooner had 1 year left last year and they couldn't move him, and ended up buying him out for very marginal savings. And he had a better recent track record than Baertschi does now at the time.

No one has claimed this.

Sure they have. The magical Eriksson mutual termination flying around everywhere is my favourite. Because a guy being gifted top-6 minutes during a stretch drive here is totally going to walk away from $8 million next summer.

Could it happen? Maybe there's a small chance. Is it likely? Definitely not.

 

[VancouverJagger]

Oh, they may retain, or may buy him out, or may pay a substantial asset to get rid of him. But all of those scenarios suck. And even at that, if it was as easy as you're making out it would have already happened. They've been trying everything to get rid of him for almost a year. And he's the easiest of the contracts to move. Sutter and Eriksson? Good luck.

And Baertschi is $3 million of $30 million in bad contracts this team has. He's a drop in the bucket.

Ohhhh.........I see - just as I thought. I love how you hedge your bets. First laughing at the notion then saying well "mayyybe".........

I never said this was ideal - I said more than likely Baer is gone to which you scoffed at that indirectly.

Pick an argument and stick with it - setting yourself up as the Teflon man so nothing sticks to you is an easy way to navigate.

You think Sutter's contract is going to be impossible to move? Lol - you don't think 1 mill retained and a 3rd or 4th round pick would do it? The biggest issue with him is that I am not sure Benning actually wants to move such a "foundational" piece - not that they can't move him next year.

Yeah our crap is going to cost assets to move - obviously that is not ideal. Saying that we can't move them though just isn't reality - expiring contracts will always be moveable - it just depends on the price we want to give up to do so.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

David Backes can no longer play. Sutter, despite his injuries, is a useful 3rd liner scoring at a 35 point pace. Did you take this into account?

Brandon Sutter has hit 35 points once in his career, 10 years ago.

 

[VancouverJagger]

At what cost.

If you offer up podz and a first sure someone takes it on but the cost to give up the contract is the issue also.

also you get rid of that contract but do you take back another one so while the sven contract is gone we have a mven contract on the books

To get rid of Baer? I already stated something like Woo/Lind etc. and a 4th would probably work. Ideally we do this for a later round pick from another team so we aren't taking on salary. Is this not feasible? Or is this pie in the sky?

 

[Diversification]

I find it fascinating that people could watch us not be able to move Eriksson, Baertschi, or Spooner (ending in a buyout) for the past year and then think that the team will magically make all their bad contracts disappear this summer.

I agree with Eriksson, but I predict there will be a market for Baertschi on a 1-year deal. Teams are always looking for some added offense and there will be cap space to absorb him for a low price, possibly a conditional pick.

 

[xtra]

To get rid of Baer? I already stated something like Woo/Lind etc. and a 4th would probably work. Ideally we do this for a later round pick from another team so we aren't taking on salary. Is this not feasible? Or is this pie in the sky?

I was saying you can move any players contract if your willing to over pay.

While I think your a bit on the low side for moving sven even with your opinion as the deal we now have to move a second(woo/Lind) and a fourth to get rid of him.

We are losing more and more assets to keep this team which imo is probably at its max potential already.

The loss of assets is what’s scaring me more and more.

if that deal goes through and I think you have to agree that sutter with his injury problems is going to cost a second and something else so let’s say the other of woo/Lind to move

we make the playoffs this year
2020 - no first(Miller); no second(toffoli); no madden
2021 - no second(sutter); no third(Miller);no fourth(resign toffoli or in the sven deal); no woo; no Lind (moving out sutter/sven)

basically no prospect depth (which hopefully turn into cheap elc to play on your bottom lines); no serious picks to get prospects For a playoff bubble team.


You basically need podz/hoglander to max out their potential to do anything which might only be as good as a second/third round apperance

and people are ok/think we are in good shape

 

[MS]

Ohhhh.........I see - just as I thought. I love how you hedge your bets. First laughing at the notion then saying well "mayyybe".........

I never said this was ideal - I said more than likely Baer is gone to which you scoffed at that indirectly.

Pick an argument and stick with it - setting yourself up as the Teflon man so nothing sticks to you is an easy way to navigate.

You think Sutter's contract is going to be impossible to move? Lol - you don't think 1 mill retained and a 3rd or 4th round pick would do it? The biggest issue with him is that I am not sure Benning actually wants to move such a "foundational" piece - not that they can't move him next year.

Yeah our crap is going to cost assets to move - obviously that is not ideal. Saying that we can't move them though just isn't reality - expiring contracts will always be moveable - it just depends on the price we want to give up to do so.

I'm not hedging bets. They may be able to move Baertschi somehow in a way they don't like. He's the tip of the iceberg.

I don't think they want to move Sutter, Sutter has a modified NTC which vastly limits options, and no, I don't think a 4th round pick is enough to get someone to take that contract.

Why wasn't Spooner moved last summer?

 

[4Twenty]

We are going to have to give up some assets to get rid of some contracts. Simple as that. There’s no way around this situation. And it sounded like we almost dealt baertschi at deadline. So it’s not impossible. Time will tell.

That roster i just posted included losing Baertschi’s money. It would be an undermanned roster with barely enough room to retain the pieces they have.

it’s going to be tough. Time will tell is right.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I was saying you can move any players contract if your willing to over pay.

While I think your a bit on the low side for moving sven even with your opinion as the deal we now have to move a second(woo/Lind) and a fourth to get rid of him.

We are losing more and more assets to keep this team which imo is probably at its max potential already.

The loss of assets is what’s scaring me more and more.

if that deal goes through and I think you have to agree that sutter with his injury problems is going to cost a second and something else so let’s say the other of woo/Lind to move

we make the playoffs this year
2020 - no first(Miller); no second(toffoli); no madden
2021 - no second(sutter); no third(Miller);no fourth(resign toffoli or in the sven deal); no woo; no Lind (moving out sutter/sven)

basically no prospect depth (which hopefully turn into cheap elc to play on your bottom lines); no serious picks to get prospects For a playoff bubble team.


You basically need podz/hoglander to max out their potential to do anything which might only be as good as a second/third round apperance

and people are ok/think we are in good shape

So you think our team has maxed out on it's potential is what I'm reading here - not sure how you can say that considering our 2 best players are in their 1st and second years with the team.

I have high hopes that Podkolzin will be a top 6 player. If that happens and we keep the team we have now intact with Demko in goal moving forward we are very well setup - this also includes re-signing Toffoli.

IMO that our biggest concern will be our D - however we have a couple very viable options in Tryamkin and Rafferty that we can potentially plug in there so yes, ideally we have another top 4 D somewhere but this can be figured out.

I agree a lot of things with our cap aren't great (I'm still shaking my head at the Beagle signing a couple years ago which was completely pointless) however our issues are way overblown. It's never ideal having to part with assets to simply get rid of garbage however thankfully we are in a position to be able to do so.

Cheer up - we have a lot to look forward to - Petey and Hughes are worth the price of admission on their own each and every night.

 

[Hodgy]

I'm not hedging bets. They may be able to move Baertschi somehow in a way they don't like. He's the tip of the iceberg.

I don't think they want to move Sutter, Sutter has a modified NTC which vastly limits options, and no, I don't think a 4th round pick is enough to get someone to take that contract.

Why wasn't Spooner moved last summer?

Also, with Sutter, our best chance at moving contract was yesterday when a team may have taken on next year’s salary because they needed a third or fourth line centre down the stretch or in the playoffs. In the summer, there may be free agents available that will provide similar value to Sutter for cheaper.

 

[VancouverJagger]

I'm not hedging bets. They may be able to move Baertschi somehow in a way they don't like. He's the tip of the iceberg.

I don't think they want to move Sutter, Sutter has a modified NTC which vastly limits options, and no, I don't think a 4th round pick is enough to get someone to take that contract.

Why wasn't Spooner moved last summer?

I don't have a cousin in management to give me all the deets like u do so no idea why Spooner wasn't moved?

Sutter is a 3 mill ish player - everyone has hated on him since day one since he's been overpaid since signing his contract. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic but retaining a mill or so salary on him and giving up a 3rd or 4th I would think would be in the ballpark of getting a deal done. I agree that management seems enamoured with him so not sure I can see that happening.

Our cap issues are way, way overblown. It makes for interesting conversation and allows people like you to further the narrative that Benning is an asshat but at the end of the day there are plenty of options, painful as they might be - to address the cap moving forward.