Post-Game Talk: Trade Deadline Day/Week

[Diamonddog01]

Cap hit matters more than anything.

You think, in the middle of a playoff run that their jobs depend on, they were intentionally weakening the team by playing Eriksson ahead of Boeser as part of a pre-ordained agreement to clear cap space for next season? Has anything these guys have ever done indicate that's how they operate?

To you and me it does, to an NHL team owner it really doesn't. With the GM it obviously does however that also depends on if cap is an issue for them. New Jersey has 26 million in projected cap space next year, I think for a team like that what Eriksson is owed is more important than his cap hit. For us it is obviously a different story.

 

[vancityluongo]

Why does New Jersey do that? Retaining 50% on Subban means they don't actually save any money.

If they retain less, it's not worth doing for Vancouver.

Also, Subban is done. Eriksson is an okay-ish 4th liner, at least.

P.K. Subban - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Loui Eriksson - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

PK has a $6M bonus on July 1st - his actual base salary next season is $2M. Like I said, we'd need to trade for him before that, and then send Eriksson after July 1st (after paying his $3M bonus).

2020-21 - salary
NJD: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($1M)
Vancouver: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($0)

2020-21 - bonus
NJD: Subban ($0), Eriksson ($0)
Vancouver: Subban ($6M), Eriksson ($3M)

2020-21 - cap hit
NJD: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson ($6M)
Vancouver: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson (~$0)

_____

2021-22 - salary
NJD: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($3M)
Vancouver: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($0)

2021-22 - bonus
NJD: Subban ($3M), Eriksson ($1M)
Vancouver: Subban ($6M), Eriksson ($0)

2021-22 - cap hit
NJD: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson ($6M)
Vancouver: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson ($0)

So unless I'm messing this up somehow (very possible), next season Vancouver pays $10M in cash and carries a cap hit of $4.5M. NJ pays $2M in cash for a cap hit of $10.5M (ouch). But the second season, they pay $8M in cash for a $10.5M cap hit, while we pay $7M in cash for a $4.5M cap hit,

If anything, that's a very, very high cash cost for Vancouver for marginal cap savings in the first year. And is Subban really done as an NHL player? I knew he was struggling but figured he'd still be of NHL service. Scratch this all if that's not the case.

 

[Hoghandler]

There probably isn't much point in continuing an argument with someone so disingenuous as to use Eriksson's net income to make the amount he gets from continuing on really small while using his gross income to make his personal wealth seem really large.

I was talking about Loui Eriksson's gross net worth. Eriksson has grossed somewhere in the neighbourhood of $35+mil in his career; if his gross net worth today is less than $50mil, he either has an incompetent wealth manager, or he spends like a drunken sailor. Are you not familiar with where markets have gone over the last 10+ years? A broad based index fund has grown 400% since 2009, which coincides with the time Loui started becoming a high earning player. The $50mil net worth was being conservative, assuming Loui Eriksson has been a halfway responsible investor with his income.

Instead of assuming people you disagree with are disingenuous, incompetent, liars, maybe take the time to question if maybe others are working off different, or better information. It seems lost on you that this is ever a possibility, which is not a good look.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

P.K. Subban - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
Loui Eriksson - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

PK has a $6M bonus on July 1st - his actual base salary next season is $2M. Like I said, we'd need to trade for him before that, and then send Eriksson after July 1st (after paying his $3M bonus).

2020-21 - salary
NJD: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($1M)
Vancouver: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($0)

2020-21 - bonus
NJD: Subban ($0), Eriksson ($0)
Vancouver: Subban ($6M), Eriksson ($3M)

2020-21 - cap hit
NJD: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson ($6M)
Vancouver: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson (~$0)

_____

2021-22 - salary
NJD: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($3M)
Vancouver: Subban ($1M), Eriksson ($0)

2021-22 - bonus
NJD: Subban ($3M), Eriksson ($1M)
Vancouver: Subban ($6M), Eriksson ($0)

2021-22 - cap hit
NJD: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson ($6M)
Vancouver: Subban ($4.5M), Eriksson ($0)

So unless I'm messing this up somehow (very possible), next season Vancouver pays $10M in cash and carries a cap hit of $4.5M. NJ pays $2M in cash for a cap hit of $10.5M (ouch). But the second season, they pay $8M in cash for a $10.5M cap hit, while we pay $7M in cash for a $4.5M cap hit,

If anything, that's a very, very high cash cost for Vancouver for marginal cap savings in the first year. And is Subban really done as an NHL player? I knew he was struggling but figured he'd still be of NHL service. Scratch this all if that's not the case.

Ah, fair enough - I didn't realize Subban's bonus situation. Yeah, that could work, though I think I would still prefer the trade-for-Schneider-and-buy-him-out option.

 

[MS]

I was talking about Loui Eriksson's gross net worth. Eriksson has grossed somewhere in the neighbourhood of $35+mil in his career; if his gross net worth today is less than $50mil, he either has an incompetent wealth manager, or he spends like a drunken sailor. Are you not familiar with where markets have gone over the last 10+ years? A broad based index fund has grown 400% since 2009, which coincides with the time Loui started becoming a high earning player. The $50mil net worth was being conservative, assuming Loui Eriksson has been a halfway responsible investor with his income.

Instead of assuming people you disagree with are disingenuous, incompetent, liars, maybe take the time to question if maybe others are working off different, or better information. It seems lost on you that this is ever a possibility, which is not a good look.

Even taking aside the net worth thing, you're quoting the amount Bogosian walked away from in gross income and the amount Eriksson is walking way from in net income to make it seem closer. Yes, disingenuous.

And yes, I'd be surprised if a player who has earned ~$30 million after taxes in his career (most of it in the last few years) and then spent a large portion of it on disposable expenses is now worth $70 million. But I'm not going to get into a game of guesstimating how well a player has invested his money with no evidence either way. He could also have done a Jesper Parnevik/Mike Modano and desperately need his next few million. Or - more likely - somewhere in the middle. We're both guessing and it's pointless.

 

[Hoghandler]

Even taking aside the net worth thing

We're both guessing and it's pointless.

You mean, aside from you questioning my character and calling me a liar because you thought I was quoting Loui's net earnings, instead of gross earnings? Aside from that little thing?

Regardless of what you think, if I think Eriksson potentially has a net worth in the $50mil+ range, do you think it's sounds ridiculous if I could see him not wanting to ride busses in the minors for $1.3mil a year in net earnings?

And I haven't even brought up the fact if Eriksson thinks he's still a decent NHL player being held back by this organisation, he can terminate his contract, go sign a 1 year, $1mil show-me contract somewhere like Florida and when all is said and done, he's leaving how much on the table to play in the NHL, as opposed to the AHL? I'll let you do the math and answer that one, to avoid any disagreement.

You said Loui is leaving $8mil on the table if he walks. Now that it's all been broken down to the brass tacks, how much after tax money is Loui walking away from in year 1? What is your determination?

 

[m9]

You mean, aside from you questioning my character and calling me a liar because you thought I was quoting Loui's net earnings, instead of gross earnings? Aside from that little thing?

Regardless of what you think, if I think Eriksson potentially has a net worth in the $50mil+ range, do you think it's sounds ridiculous if I could see him not wanting to ride busses in the minors for $1.3mil a year in net earnings?

And I haven't even brought up the fact if Eriksson thinks he's still a decent NHL player being held back by this organisation, he can terminate his contract, go sign a 1 year, $1mil show-me contract somewhere like Florida and when all is said and done, he's leaving how much on the table to play in the NHL, as opposed to the AHL? I'll let you do the math and answer that one, to avoid any disagreement.

You said Loui is leaving $8mil on the table if he walks. Now that it's all been broken down to the brass tacks, how much after tax money is Loui walking away from in year 1? What is your determination?

If Eriksson thinks he's getting bought out after the 2020-21 season then he will earn 7 million from July 2020 to June 2021. And then be a free agent to do whatever he wants for 2021-22. Why would he terminate his contract? Where is the precedence for other players doing this?

 

[Hoghandler]

If Eriksson thinks he's getting bought out after the 2020-21 season then he will earn 7 million from July 2020 to June 2021. And then be a free agent to do whatever he wants for 2021-22. Why would he terminate his contract? Where is the precedence for other players doing this?

Then don't tell Loui Eriksson he's being bought out. Seems pretty straight forward.

 

[m9]

Then don't tell Loui Eriksson he's being bought out. Seems pretty straight forward.

So he's smart enough to save 50 million bucks but not smart enough to have an agent who can figure out that a buyout is pretty likely given that it benefits everyone involved?

 

[Hoghandler]

So he's smart enough to save 50 million bucks but not smart enough to have an agent who can figure out that a buyout is pretty likely given that it benefits everyone involved?

What if his agent is smart, and because of that, doesn't believe he will be bought out?

A buyout benefits everyone involved? I would not buy out Loui Eriksson...

 

[4Twenty]

Eriksson is a top 6 forward in the current lineup. The idea they’re going to bury him when they didn’t this last summer after he ragged on the coaching seems quite far fetched. I hope it happens to. I doubt it does.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

So assuming Boeser and Leivo are back by the playoffs and everyone is healthy (probably wishful thinking I know) our forward group should be really deep.
Boeser bumps Loui out of the top 6 and we have a really solid group. What two players come out and what’s the lineup?

 

[Hoghandler]

Eriksson is a top 6 forward in the current lineup. The idea they’re going to bury him when they didn’t this last summer after he ragged on the coaching seems quite far fetched. I hope it happens to. I doubt it does.

He's a RW'er on a team that has 3 top 9 RW'ers on IR. He also was a healthy scratch for like 20 games...

And that was before Toffoli came aboard. If Toffoli re-signs, that pushes Eriksson that much further down the depth chart. Have to think Green wants Leivo back too, as he played on the 2nd line over Eriksson.

Benning said he thinks Zack MacEwen is an everyday NHL player too. That's another RW'er looking to get minutes.

Is Sutter back next year on RW? Is he at centre with Gaudette at RW?

 

[MS]

You mean, aside from you questioning my character and calling me a liar because you thought I was quoting Loui's net earnings, instead of gross earnings? Aside from that little thing?

Regardless of what you think, if I think Eriksson potentially has a net worth in the $50mil+ range, do you think it's sounds ridiculous if I could see him not wanting to ride busses in the minors for $1.3mil a year in net earnings?

And I haven't even brought up the fact if Eriksson thinks he's still a decent NHL player being held back by this organisation, he can terminate his contract, go sign a 1 year, $1mil show-me contract somewhere like Florida and when all is said and done, he's leaving how much on the table to play in the NHL, as opposed to the AHL? I'll let you do the math and answer that one, to avoid any disagreement.

You said Loui is leaving $8mil on the table if he walks. Now that it's all been broken down to the brass tacks, how much after tax money is Loui walking away from in year 1? What is your determination?

Your ability to quote posts and cut the bits you’re destroyed on and leave the bit where you can try and twist and angle some sort of pathetic argument is ... disingenuous.

Why didn’t this happen last summer?

Why were you quoting Bogosian’s gross earnings in the same post as Eriksson’s net earnings?

 

[sting101]

It's cheaper to have Eriksson in Utica than buy him out. Buyout is not an option

The guy has grossed 56million to date with another 4million coming by July 1st. He will be owed 5million gross for 2 years of playing in the minors after that. So a guy that has netted approx 35 million is going to persist as a 35 and 36yr old in Utica riding buses for 2yrs to collect 3million dollars after taxes?

For a guy that owns other interests that seems like an awful grind for a small amount of money on the grand scale. And to add to that....as a winger you are basically paid for production 100k per pt is pretty normal

Eriksson will have made 31 million dollars for 85 pts (earned 8.5 million by his actual production) if he stays on pace by this summer .....what an incredible rip off and if he cant thank Jim Travis and the Canucks for sucking up this massive mound of dog shit for 4 yrs already and move on without further hampering the team i think he's a despicable person. I would direct my coach in Utica to put him out against other teams toughest opponent every game.

He needs to do the right thing and retire or find an injury to end it.

 

[Hoghandler]

Your ability to quote posts and cut the bits you’re destroyed on and leave the bit where you can try and twist and angle some sort of pathetic argument is ... disingenuous.

Why didn’t this happen last summer?

Why were you quoting Bogosian’s gross earnings in the same post as Eriksson’s net earnings?

The entire discussion is based on how much Eriksson would be walking away from if his contract is mutually terminated. My post was staying on topic in regards to that question.

Seeing as how you’re just going to disagree with my numbers, regardless of what they are, why don’t you tell me how much Eriksson will be walking away from in real dollars if he signs a show-me, 1 year contract elsewhere next season? By your estimation, how much money would he be leaving on the table to resume his NHL career, as opposed to toiling away in the minors?

Once you cite that number, we can determine if it does in fact sound absurd that he may be willing to mutually terminate his contract.

 

[MS]

The entire discussion is based on how much Eriksson would be walking away from if his contract is mutually terminated. My post was staying on topic in regards to that question.

Seeing as how you’re just going to disagree with my numbers, regardless of what they are, why don’t you tell me how much Eriksson will be walking away from in real dollars if he signs a show-me, 1 year contract elsewhere next season? By your estimation, how much money would he be leaving on the table to resume his NHL career, as opposed to toiling away in the minors?

Once you cite that number, we can determine if it does in fact sound absurd that he may be willing to mutually terminate his contract.

No, the problem is that you're trying to minimize the number with Eriksson but then use gross earnings to try and inflate Bogosian's amount when that suits your argument better.

And I'm not even bothering to quibble with your numbers and claims about Eriksson's fantastic wealth. Even granting that those are correct, why didn't this happen last summer? Everything still holds. Eriksson would be exceedingly wealthy in the summer of 2019, the amount he was still owed would still be a relative pittance, the team still desperately wanted to get rid of him, and the team still could have threatened to send him to Utica. But nothing happened. Why?

There is absolutely zero incentive for Eriksson to agree to a mutual buyout during the summer. Why would he do it? He can just call their bluff and say 'Uhh, nope. You were playing me in the top-6 last season and I was an important member of the club. I don't believe you'll actually send me to Utica, and I'm happy to go if you do, and you're screwed if that happens. Either trade me or keep me on the roster'. And ... there isn't anything we can really do about it until October. And then if we actually do follow through and send him to Utica in October and he doesn't want to go, maybe the mutual termination becomes attractive to him at that point. But that does nothing for our summer cap crunch.

There has to be some leverage on Eriksson to agree to a mutual termination, and there just isn't any in July. It would be an incredibly stupid move on his part. It would just be giving away his NHL career and several million dollars before he has to, when he might not have to. It's folding your cards when everyone has checked around to you. It's Eriksson's agent's job to get the maximum amount for his client, and he's not going to mutually terminate just to make Jim Benning's job easier for him.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Closing this down - further discussion on what is to come this offseason can go in the management/fantasy GM threads.