Speculation: Trade Deadline #3 - Wings do nothing, MOD warning post #1

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Oh, I'm sure that getting slaughtered in the first round is absolutely the goal of the front office (edit: sarcasm). Whatever the case, the simple fact is that you're screaming about the two 2nds we'd have gotten from trading Filppula and White. Believe it or not, the return would not have been earth-shattering.

And lol @ the above being an offense that should result in termination.

if valteri filppula is worth not a cent more then a 2nd rd pick as some would believe, then does that mean he has little to no value?

if his value is so low then that a team like chicago or boston or the NYR or vancouver or whoever, teams with true stanley cup aspirations who were looking to add depth would be sickened to offer up anything beyond a late second roud pick, then why do we have him and how is he possibly going to help us maintain our playoff streak to appease the ticket holders?

no the actual truth is that his value lies somewhere in between the two idiotic hf board generated extremes.

 

[Frk It]

Filppula would have at least returned a 2nd round pick via trade.

Good GM's make sure they get something for someone they feel has a foot out the door (Shero with Staal, Wilson with Clowe).

Honestly in a year where Ryane Clowe returned a 2nd and 3rd you guys really think we couldn't get at least a 2nd rounder for Filppula? Clowe is older, was in a worst slump, and is also an upcoming UFA.

I mean it certainly helps the Sharks have a more aggressive and proactive GM.

Filppula is going to walk this summer, and it's going to be a joke and a serious missed opportunity. Holland is becoming far too conservative and reactive to what is going on. I think he held on to Filppula because he thinks the team is in a different spot than where they are realistically at, and Filppula is somehow one of the pieces that would put us over the hump. Even though we're farther off than that.

Hudler and Filppula gone in back to back years for no draft picks or assets. Maybe he'll learn next year? Eventually?

Who knows. The fact that he didn't trade Ian White despite the fact he is scractched, and didn't trade Filppula despite the fact he is not producing great and is going to walk makes me think he is seriously just out of touch. It makes me pretty concerned. That and the contracts he gives out, and the number of them.

 

[Flowah]

And lol @ the above being an offense that should result in termination.

If you're a GM and your goal is not to win the Cup you need to be replaced. It might not be an attainable goal for some, but it should always be the ultimate goal.

 

[TatarTangle]

If you're a GM and your goal is not to win the Cup you need to be replaced. It might not be an attainable goal for some, but it should always be the ultimate goal.

But, but...the consecutive playoff streak! That's all that matters!

Frk It, it's going to be a year where Filppula walks having gotten nothing for him but Holland hands out a multi-year contract to Dan or Danny (I forgot and don't care) ****in' Cleary with a NTC. Sammy won't be bought out nor Bertuzzi or CC. For what it's worth, Bertuzzi was walking around with a cane a couple weeks ago last time he was at my work. And the serious lack of scoring won't be addressed.

I hope I'm wrong but I have a gut feeling even the biggest Holland apologists are going to have a very, very tough time defending him once next season begins. The next couple seasons are going to be like riding in an airplane at 30,000 feet experiencing turbulence. Up, down, up, down, up, down, up, down, hopefully ending up.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

It's funny (but unsurprising) that when it comes to criticizing the GM, the player whom you've repeatedly called inferior this season suddenly becomes valuable on the level of Jagr, Iginla, and Morrow. Filppula has had a very poor season and would currently be a third-line center on most teams. He would perhaps draw a 2nd and a middling prospect. A 1st? Not a chance. A top prospect? Not a chance.

It's sad that you can't respond to criticisms of players without criticizing posters.

It's absurd that you lie through your filthy teeth when you do so.

Why don't you tell me where I've "repeatedly called Filppula inferior"

If anything, i've been one of the few willing to say we should consider keeping him at $5M as insurance for Datsyuk leaving

But if the team isn't willing to sign him, then what the hell?

Manage situations before situations manage you.

 

[Run the Jewels]

Filppula would have at least returned a 2nd round pick via trade.

Good GM's make sure they get something for someone they feel has a foot out the door (Shero with Staal, Wilson with Clowe).

Honestly in a year where Ryane Clowe returned a 2nd and 3rd you guys really think we couldn't get at least a 2nd rounder for Filppula? Clowe is older, was in a worst slump, and is also an upcoming UFA.

I mean it certainly helps the Sharks have a more aggressive and proactive GM.

Filppula is going to walk this summer, and it's going to be a joke and a serious missed opportunity. Holland is becoming far too conservative and reactive to what is going on. I think he held on to Filppula because he thinks the team is in a different spot than where they are realistically at, and Filppula is somehow one of the pieces that would put us over the hump. Even though we're farther off than that.

Hudler and Filppula gone in back to back years for no draft picks or assets. Maybe he'll learn next year? Eventually?

Who knows. The fact that he didn't trade Ian White despite the fact he is scractched, and didn't trade Filppula despite the fact he is not producing great and is going to walk makes me think he is seriously just out of touch. It makes me pretty concerned. That and the contracts he gives out, and the number of them.

The Preds got Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. You have to imagine Val Filppula could have gotten a similar or better return given his age. I agree completely on White, he's clearly the odd man out and Holland doesn't trade him?

Think about it:

Kindl and Hudler for Zach Bogosian
A 1st plus a couple prospects for Jay Bouwmeester
Filppula for Filip Forsberg
A 2nd or 3rd for Kyle Quincey
A 3rd or 4th in a deep draft for White
A 4th of 5th for one of Cleary, Miller, Eaves

Losing Filppula would hurt for the final dozen games but you get two very good d-men in Bogosian and Bouwmeester, you add a very good young prospect in Forsberg and you add a couple draft picks in a very deep draft. Heck, maybe you spin those two new lower draft picks for a second and get a very good prospect in this upcoming draft.

Holland really is far too conservative. My hope is the new CBA combined with Lidstrom's retirement has cause him to clench up and wait to see how things shake out. With that being said I'm really not impressed with his lack of vision, foresight and aggressiveness.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

It's sad that you can't respond to criticisms of players without criticizing posters.

Said the pot, calling the kettle black.

It's absurd that you lie through your filthy teeth when you do so.

You're no prize either when it comes to integrity. You're in no position to be on the moral high ground with your history of condescending tone and overall snobbery to people who disagree with you.

But if the team isn't willing to sign him, then what the hell?

Do you think it's that easy being a GM? There are decisions that have to be made. Ken Holland is balancing a rebuild with keeping this team a playoff team. Keep in mind, that management has access to information we can only dream of having. Acting like one knows better than management in these situations is very much ignorant. Who knows why we didn't sell Filppula. It's all speculation. Maybe they felt they weren't in a position to sell, unlike San Jose (That actually has a competent blue line, unlike us), and decided that selling off depth would spell disaster if the injury plague bit us like last year after the trade deadline. Who knows? I don't. You don't. There's not much point complaining about it. And in any case, if Filppula was that popular at the deadline, then perhaps his signing rights could fetch a pretty penny on the market if demand still exists.

Manage situations before situations manage you.

Management requires vision. That is something you clearly don't have, because you clearly can't decipher the blatant path this team is taking.

 

[sarcastro]

The Preds got Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. You have to imagine Val Filppula could have gotten a similar or better return given his age. I agree completely on White, he's clearly the odd man out and Holland doesn't trade him?

Think about it:

Kindl and Hudler for Zach Bogosian
A 1st plus a couple prospects for Jay Bouwmeester
Filppula for Filip Forsberg
A 2nd or 3rd for Kyle Quincey
A 3rd or 4th in a deep draft for White
A 4th of 5th for one of Cleary, Miller, Eaves

Losing Filppula would hurt for the final dozen games but you get two very good d-men in Bogosian and Bouwmeester, you add a very good young prospect in Forsberg and you add a couple draft picks in a very deep draft. Heck, maybe you spin those two new lower draft picks for a second and get a very good prospect in this upcoming draft.

Holland really is far too conservative. My hope is the new CBA combined with Lidstrom's retirement has cause him to clench up and wait to see how things shake out. With that being said I'm really not impressed with his lack of vision, foresight and aggressiveness.

I think you overestimate what they could have gotten for Q, Miller, Eaves and Cleary, and underestimate what they could have gotten for White.

White is the one that is really going to bug me. They're not playing him. They don't want to play him. They have 9 defensemen. They would never miss him. He could have netted them a 2nd at least, possibly more. Hanging onto him was just stupid. I can buy keeping Filppula in order to pretend they're not giving up on the season, but keeping White for no reason is just ridiculous. I also happen to think that the Caps must have had a raging clue for Erat and probably wouldn't have given up Forsberg for anyone else.

Also, everyone needs to stop pretending that Kindl and Hudler would ever have gotten them Bogosian. That deal was never remotely close to happening from the Jets' perspective, no matter how badly we wanted it to happen.

 

[Frk It]

Keep in mind, that management has access to information we can only dream of having. Acting like one knows better than management in these situations is very much ignorant

What is the point of bringing this up in every single thread that somewhat criticizes management? Obviously none of us know all of the inside information as to how the Red Wings operate. That is common sense, and that is never going to change. Bringing this up in every thread to defend management contributes very little to the overall discussion.

Believe it or not it is actually possible that management will make a mistake as well, or pass bad judgement on decisions. It is possible Holland thinks this team is better than what is is and decided not to trade Filppula , when in reality he would be better off trading Filppula for an asset instead of potentially losing him for nothing.

 

[Run the Jewels]

What is the point of bringing this up in every single thread that somewhat criticizes management? Obviously none of us know all of the inside information as to how the Red Wings operate. That is common sense, and that is never going to change. Bringing this up in every thread to defend management contributes very little to the overall discussion.

Believe it or not it is actually possible that management will make a mistake as well, or pass bad judgement on decisions. It is possible Holland thinks this team is better than what is is and decided not to trade Filppula , when in reality he would be better off trading Filppula for an asset instead of potentially losing him for nothing.

It's pretty funny that some people suggest that management has access to info we don't have...which suggests that the posters have access to info we don't have.

I'm sure the irony is lost on some. But it's a lot of fun for some of us.

 

[kuick]

I also happen to think that the Caps must have had a raging clue for Erat and probably wouldn't have given up Forsberg for anyone else.

Possibly, but unlike Filppula, Erat is signed past this year.

Edit: also I think McPhee knew his job was on the line. I read on the main trade board during the deadline that he was willing to deal one of Forsberg or Kuznetsov for an immediate upgrade.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I think you overestimate what they could have gotten for Q, Miller, Eaves and Cleary, and underestimate what they could have gotten for White.

White is the one that is really going to bug me. They're not playing him. They don't want to play him. They have 9 defensemen. They would never miss him. He could have netted them a 2nd at least, possibly more. Hanging onto him was just stupid. I can buy keeping Filppula in order to pretend they're not giving up on the season, but keeping White for no reason is just ridiculous. I also happen to think that the Caps must have had a raging clue for Erat and probably wouldn't have given up Forsberg for anyone else.

Also, everyone needs to stop pretending that Kindl and Hudler would ever have gotten them Bogosian. That deal was never remotely close to happening from the Jets' perspective, no matter how badly we wanted it to happen.

I don't know, man. When we get reports on what it takes to get a certain guy it seems pretty legit. That leads some of us to believe we were seriously in contention for guys like Bogosian and Bouwmeester. We don't get suggestions that we could have gotten Hossa over what Pittsburgh offered in '08. Or over what San Jose shelled out to get Brett Burns. And it's not like Atlanta/Winnipeg is known for making many savvy trades.

At the end of the day it's pretty obvious we could have gone a long way towards rebuilding our defense. Bogosian, Bouwmeester, Ericsson, Kronwall, DeKeyser, Ouellet, Sproul, Backman, Jensen...those are all very high level d-men. Smith is not getting off to the best start IMO. Kindl, Lashoff, Colaiacovo, Quincey and White are not guys you have as part of your core if you are a very good defensive team.

Not trying to be overly critical. Just pointing out what could be as far as trades we were rumored as being very close to pulling off.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

The Preds got Filip Forsberg for Martin Erat. You have to imagine Val Filppula could have gotten a similar or better return given his age. I agree completely on White, he's clearly the odd man out and Holland doesn't trade him?

Think about it:

Kindl and Hudler for Zach Bogosian
A 1st plus a couple prospects for Jay Bouwmeester
Filppula for Filip Forsberg
A 2nd or 3rd for Kyle Quincey
A 3rd or 4th in a deep draft for White
A 4th of 5th for one of Cleary, Miller, Eaves

I'm sorry but in what world does Filppula hold this value? Had he been playing well up to the trade deadline and was looking like he really did break out last sure he could have got that but he's no that friggin' good. You're either undervaluing Erat's value or overrating Filppula, either way it was an overpayment by McPhee imo.

I'm not a fan of Jbo, he's played okay in the games I've watched of him in Calgary but he seemed extremely soft. After giving up the 1st last year I'm fine holding on to it this year.

While we are rebuilding, not getting a 3rd/4th/5th regardless of the draft strength is a bit of a silly reason to call Holland a bad GM. I some of us wanted the dead weight moved but maybe Holland and Co. felt that Miller is worth more to us then someone they have ranked in the 4th round is, or nobody was offering/calling about those players. If we want to move them what makes them so attractive to other teams?Sometimes having that extra depth on your team is worth more then having an extra late round pick.

And not everyone is perfect. We all have 20/20 hindsight at this point but the Kindl+Hudler for Bogo had more to it, though he's doing well for himself now we don't know how he'd have responded to being traded. Atlanta had offers of 2 1sts+2nd for him so that means Hudler+Kindl/Ericsson+Pick was equal to Bogosian in their eyes. At the time Bogo was being out produced by Ericsson, just imagine if Bogosian didn't develop with us where our defence would be right now, adding a top 6 forward+1st seemed a little rich at the time as well, I think we'd have gotten at least a 1st+ for Hudler had we decided to shop him at the time even with his down year.

I think when it comes down to it the felt that the risk out weighed the reward, we were in a playoff push at this point, and the fellt that Hudler would be more of an impact player for them. The last thing I'd like to say is while Bogosian does have age on his side right now he is a #3 dman, Ericsson is also a #3 dman, Hudler, while he is on Calgary now, is a 50-60 point forward and that first became Jurco & Ouellet.

While originally it seemed lopsided in our favor I'm not sure it's that much of a steal anymore. Though I also think that Bogosian never reaches his full potential because his offense doesn't come through. Also at the time there was generally a lot of people who felt that Bogosian would never meet his potential and was a total bust, he's proving them wrong but there was some uncertainty.

I guess my point is that we can't truely judge the impact doing a trade or not doing a trade does until years after the fact, even know it's probably still to early.

 

[detredWINgs]

Filppula wouldn't get a 2nd round pick, which means the best he could get is a 3rd round pick....but Michael ****ing Handzus who is one of the slowest centers in the NHL and had TWO points 29 games when he was traded logically lands a 4th round pick??

BOTH Chicago and Anaheim were looking for a 2nd line center at the deadline - 2 teams we had no hope of catching. Holland could've easily gotten a 2nd rounder for Filppula and probably more had he played his cards right by driving up the bidding price between Anaheim and Chicago.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I've always been rather sentimental toward Flip, if re-signing him isn't intended(and unfortunately, he's probably not worth what he'll ask for), we should have moved him, Eaves, and White as well. Not doing so was mind boggling.