GDT: Trade Deadline 2020

[The Feckless Puck]

We haven't lost Hall, yet. Chayka is far from perfect and has not addressed our toughness or our C situation, but I think both you and I, along with many others thought that most of his trades and moves were positive. Sure it's disappointing the way this team played coming out of the Christmas break and there better be consequences for that alone.

My biggest complaint about Chayka is that he seems to believe that creating a "safe" atmosphere for his players will allow them to focus on playing well and not worrying about job security. In my experience in professional sports, that leads to complacency - particularly the higher the salary a player earns. A guy like Garland plays hard every shift because he's still got a two-way deal and knows he has to play his way into the lineup. A guy like Ekman-Larsson knows he can take his foot off the gas because, well, what is Chayka going to do - trade him? He can't be traded - he's making $8.25M/year with a full NMC. His only motivation, therefore, is internal - and we've seen ample evidence that either a) he gets distracted really easily or b) he's not motivated to excel like he used to for whatever reason.

In other words, the room can't be a safe haven for these guys. I know why Chayka wants them to feel like they're at home - because of the market. You can't sell a hockey team to Arizona if that team looks like they're going to be leaving at the drop of a hat. So you create a team atmosphere where the players consider the market home, rather than their job site. But when you do that, you risk breeding complacency - and it's glaringly obvious that several players in key positions are coasting.

Tocchet has said many times - and the players echo him - that "the great thing about hockey" is that after you lose it's just on to the next game. Screw that. I want losses to hurt them as much as they hurt us. I want the players to have a little bit of uncertainty nagging at their minds to get them to play less comfortably. There are some guys like Shane Doan who worked hard because that's who they were; but on our roster, I don't see a whole lot of that kind of player.

 

[Grimes]

It's really stupid to not even make a minor move for a depth defenseman. We currently have Demers day to day and Chychrun week to week, with all of Toaster, Ness and Bush taking up roster spots on a nightly basis. OEL doesn't look 100% and one bad block and Hammer could be sitting as well. Our coaches, for lord knows what reason, don't seem to trust what seems to be our best defenseman in Tucson. What rational does Chayka really have for not doing this type of move? It doesn't make a statement to the room that he trusts the roster enough to give them that extra "umph" to make a stronger push. It doesn't take pressure off the defensive group that any given night they could be down a player. It doesn't let us take a look at a player we may want to sign to replace a more expensive player in case we need to make moves to re-sign Hall. It's just stupid all around.

I went into the deadline without any expectation that we would make a big move, but to not grab another body to throw onto the bottom pairing is just downright dumb. It makes me wonder if other GM's truly do not like working with Chayka, or if he is absolutely clueless about building rosters to battle through 82+ games.

 

[BUX7PHX]

Where did you have this team finishing this year at the start of the season?

I had them as one of the top 9 teams in the conference. Likely a top 3 team in the division. A lot had to go our way to finish first, but I thought we were a good enough team to be right in the thick of the playoff race.

The trade for Hall should have solidified that. Chayka did what he needed to do. He has added a mix of players that is better than most we have seen in the last 10 years. Yes, there are some flaws - most teams have some flaws.

But the biggest flaw of all has been lack of coaching. Our team certainly didn't look tired against Tampa. To insinuate that the team had only trained for 50 or 60 games of the season, and then watch them put up 7 on Tampa tells me that our coach doesn't have a pulse on this team.

If the schedule put you in a position to make you tired, then we need to figure out the times of the year to maximize that. We just played 11 games in 18 days. Surely, there was another time in the schedule (like maybe the 5 games in 8 days before the All-Star break where we went 1-3-1) where you up the ante and put some pressure on the players. Envision going 2-2-1 instead of 1-3-1. That would mean an additional 2 points, and reducing the amount of points picked up by an Edmonton or Vancouver. Let's say we beat Vancouver in that stretch. Guess who would be ahead of the Canucks? We would flip spots because we gained two points for 72 and Vancouver is now at 70. Get an additional point somewhere, and now we are tied with Edmonton at 73.

These are the little things that coaches should understand. It is a long season. Not everyone can be perfect every game. But when a win is needed, that coach has to be able to put the team in position to succeed and will the importance of certain games on the roster.

I don't see that happening.

 

[BUX7PHX]

My biggest complaint about Chayka is that he seems to believe that creating a "safe" atmosphere for his players will allow them to focus on playing well and not worrying about job security. In my experience in professional sports, that leads to complacency - particularly the higher the salary a player earns. A guy like Garland plays hard every shift because he's still got a two-way deal and knows he has to play his way into the lineup. A guy like Ekman-Larsson knows he can take his foot off the gas because, well, what is Chayka going to do - trade him? He can't be traded - he's making $8.25M/year with a full NMC. His only motivation, therefore, is internal - and we've seen ample evidence that either a) he gets distracted really easily or b) he's not motivated to excel like he used to for whatever reason.

In other words, the room can't be a safe haven for these guys. I know why Chayka wants them to feel like they're at home - because of the market. You can't sell a hockey team to Arizona if that team looks like they're going to be leaving at the drop of a hat. So you create a team atmosphere where the players consider the market home, rather than their job site. But when you do that, you risk breeding complacency - and it's glaringly obvious that several players in key positions are coasting.

Tocchet has said many times - and the players echo him - that "the great thing about hockey" is that after you lose it's just on to the next game. Screw that. I want losses to hurt them as much as they hurt us. I want the players to have a little bit of uncertainty nagging at their minds to get them to play less comfortably. There are some guys like Shane Doan who worked hard because that's who they were; but on our roster, I don't see a whole lot of that kind of player.

But then every successful player would have that issue, no? Get paid, then slack off. I don't think that is the issue. Even though, yes, there are players who can theoretically do that.

I think that we have implemented the "speed, speed, speed" idea so much that we forget ways in which speed can be negated. Was it last year that the Blues had an on-ice fight in mid-December? I don't know what the drill was in practice that led to that, but maybe a lot of the drills done are soft-ish by nature and we don't do a lot of 1 on 1, 2 on 2, 2 on 1, or 3 on 2 board work where physicality is a key. I think that may also be a missing element, even though I am aware of the concept that not every practice has to be this mountain of physicality, and you can wear a team down if doing that too often.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

But if we miss the playoffs it’s definitely going to feel really bad and probably be ugly around here for a while.

Ugly? Here? In the land of piss and moan? Not possible.

 

[Jakey53]

It's really stupid to not even make a minor move for a depth defenseman. We currently have Demers day to day and Chychrun week to week, with all of Toaster, Ness and Bush taking up roster spots on a nightly basis. OEL doesn't look 100% and one bad block and Hammer could be sitting as well. Our coaches, for lord knows what reason, don't seem to trust what seems to be our best defenseman in Tucson. What rational does Chayka really have for not doing this type of move? It doesn't make a statement to the room that he trusts the roster enough to give them that extra "umph" to make a stronger push. It doesn't take pressure off the defensive group that any given night they could be down a player. It doesn't let us take a look at a player we may want to sign to replace a more expensive player in case we need to make moves to re-sign Hall. It's just stupid all around.

I went into the deadline without any expectation that we would make a big move, but to not grab another body to throw onto the bottom pairing is just downright dumb. It makes me wonder if other GM's truly do not like working with Chayka, or if he is absolutely clueless about building rosters to battle through 82+ games.

Was there any D out there much better than what we have? Are they going to make a big impact? It sucks not to make the playoffs again, and for me that is a failure, and that points at Chayka and RT. There has to be consequences for the team overall play the last two months. Not one or two were playing bad, but most of the team except for two or three players. Let's see what happens.

 

[Jakey53]

I had them as one of the top 9 teams in the conference. Likely a top 3 team in the division. A lot had to go our way to finish first, but I thought we were a good enough team to be right in the thick of the playoff race.

The trade for Hall should have solidified that. Chayka did what he needed to do. He has added a mix of players that is better than most we have seen in the last 10 years. Yes, there are some flaws - most teams have some flaws.

But the biggest flaw of all has been lack of coaching. Our team certainly didn't look tired against Tampa. To insinuate that the team had only trained for 50 or 60 games of the season, and then watch them put up 7 on Tampa tells me that our coach doesn't have a pulse on this team.

If the schedule put you in a position to make you tired, then we need to figure out the times of the year to maximize that. We just played 11 games in 18 days. Surely, there was another time in the schedule (like maybe the 5 games in 8 days before the All-Star break where we went 1-3-1) where you up the ante and put some pressure on the players. Envision going 2-2-1 instead of 1-3-1. That would mean an additional 2 points, and reducing the amount of points picked up by an Edmonton or Vancouver. Let's say we beat Vancouver in that stretch. Guess who would be ahead of the Canucks? We would flip spots because we gained two points for 72 and Vancouver is now at 70. Get an additional point somewhere, and now we are tied with Edmonton at 73.

These are the little things that coaches should understand. It is a long season. Not everyone can be perfect every game. But when a win is needed, that coach has to be able to put the team in position to succeed and will the importance of certain games on the roster.

I don't see that happening.

I believe coaching is our biggest problem as well, but Chayka shouldn't get off that easy. He hired RT, made the Kessel deal, which most loved around these parts, but has turned into a nightmare. Did not address toughness or our C problem. Still, this team would have made the playoffs, and still might, if not for the terrible play coming out of the Christmas break. This team played some real good hockey this year, so that is a positive, I guess.

 

[JTPoni23]

There is a cynical, almost macabre part of me that is completely ok with the fact that Chayka did dick all in terms of shake ups over the past month. Because at the end of the season if we miss the playoffs and Hall walks, there will be no one else for Chayka and Toc to blame, this is completely on them. If we make it, great! I'll be on the first flight down for the playoffs. But if we miss, then I can sleep well at night knowing I didn't have some false hope and didn't convince myself that this was the best possible group that could have been put together, and that we HAD to win with, because it isn't. There are issues that we all know needed to be addressed (toughness, grit, complacency, coaching etc.) and Chayka blatantly chose not to address them.

I wake up everyday thanking God that I am not a Leafs fan, because that front office and fan base are married to their problems and it looks more and more likely that they would have to part with one of the big 4 in order to fix their issues, and Dubas would rather go down with his ship than go back on his "We can and we will" proclamation. That group in Toronto is one that they HAVE to win with, Dubas has played all his cards. Leafs fans have spent the last 3 years convincing themselves that holding onto all their sexy pieces was surely the path to success and that they could outscore all of their problems. They have spent 3 years fighting tooth and nail to defend the makeup of their team before it all came crumbling down this season. We are lucky as Coyotes fans that we are not so emotionally invested in the make up or ideology of how this team was assembled.

The frustrating part for me is, the group that we have here have issues that can be fixed without the need to blow everything up like the Leafs would have to, there are simple fixes here to be made. The scary part is the disturbing parallel between Dubas and Chayka, and the shared ideology of falling on their sword because of pride rather than admitting mistakes. Dubas at least went out and made the low hanging fruit/easy fixes that could be made with the firing of Babcock and additions of Clifford and Campbell, Chayka has yet to make any similar simple fixes in terms of addressing toughness or coaching. Toronto has a big picture problem that Dubas does not want to address (1/2 the cap to 4 guys), we have small picture problems that Chayka does not want to address. Chayka has chosen to double down on his philosophy by doing nothing, and you know what if it works great, I'll be the first one to give him praise, but if it doesn't, it is surely grounds for dismissal.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

I believe coaching is our biggest problem as well, but Chayka shouldn't get off that easy. He hired RT, made the Kessel deal, which most loved around these parts, but has turned into a nightmare. Did not address toughness or our C problem. Still, this team would have made the playoffs, and still might, if not for the terrible play coming out of the Christmas break. This team played some real good hockey this year, so that is a positive, I guess.

We played well in October/November 54% winning pct (15-9-4) and after that time we've gone (16-17-4) 43% winning pct. Frankly, everyone knows our issues we have with the team, and I think that everyone sees it except for the 2 guys running the show (Chayka/Tocchet). For the love of all that his holy, how many pts have we lost this year because the PP is an abomination?

 

[_Del_]

Where did you have this team finishing this year at the start of the season?

91 points. That was before Kessel from the Skating Dead showed up, and before we traded our first round pick plus prospects for an elite winger rental, and before the team went to sleep for two months and counting.
Now? I'd have been just as happy if he blew it up.
Because these players don't care, and coaching is suspect. Oh, they are also soft as a goose-feathered pillow.

We did nothing to address any of them to make a playoff push or just to shake it up. So I'm not sure how anyone thinks we're doing anything to make the playoffs other than possibly tripping our way in if the rest of the division completely shits the bed (The division is bad, and it almost happened last year, but we didn't care enough last year either).

 

[Foggy1097]

91 points. That was before Kessel from the Skating Dead showed up, and before we traded our first round pick plus prospects for an elite winger rental, and before the team went to sleep for two months and counting.
Now? I'd have been just as happy if he blew it up.
Because these players don't care, and coaching is suspect. Oh, they are also soft as a goose-feathered pillow.

We did nothing to address any of them to make a playoff push or just to shake it up. So I'm not sure how anyone thinks we're doing anything to make the playoffs other than possibly tripping our way in if the rest of the division completely shits the bed (The division is bad, and it almost happened last year, but we didn't care enough last year either).

They are going to be ok I think. We have gone through the toughest stretches of our schedule and have it much nicer the rest of the way in regards to home games, rest days, and practice days. Some other teams are now going to have to deal with what we’ve already dealt with. It’s their turn to go through the gauntlet now. If they handle it better than us then well done, but they might struggle too. Vancouver for example, is about to play four in six nights on the road. They just lost Markstrom for probably 3-4 weeks. They are missing Boeser and Ferland for the rest of the year. Let’s see how they handle it.

WPG did nothing. NSH did nothing. The only moves in our division that I feel were really all that significant are EDM getting Green and AA, and Vegas getting Lehner. Other than that it was all fluff.

 

[_Del_]

There are teams two points behind is with three games in hand. They can be worse down the stretch than the Coyotes and still make the playoffs. The Coyotes will have to string some very impressive games together, demonstrating a consistency completely foreign to them. If the Coyotes go .500 down the stretch, other teams can make the playoffs with a sub .500 post-tdl performance. Not much to be optimistic about, except that at least we're not counting ping-pong balls already.

 

[Jakey53]

We played well in October/November 54% winning pct (15-9-4) and after that time we've gone (16-17-4) 43% winning pct. Frankly, everyone knows our issues we have with the team, and I think that everyone sees it except for the 2 guys running the show (Chayka/Tocchet). For the love of all that his holy, how many pts have we lost this year because the PP is an abomination?

The PP was bad last year as well. Anyone who puts out Stepan, Fischer and Panik as your #1 PP for the whole year, with no success, and I mean no success, then doesn't even bother to try something different, has rocks in their head. Our PP is not a two month problem. Regardless, most thought this team would either miss the playoffs, make the playoffs or be a bubble team, and that is where we are today. We have to make changes to get better and hopefully we will, but I think it has to start from behind the bench. We shall see.

 

[Jakey53]

91 points. That was before Kessel from the Skating Dead showed up, and before we traded our first round pick plus prospects for an elite winger rental, and before the team went to sleep for two months and counting.
Now? I'd have been just as happy if he blew it up.
Because these players don't care, and coaching is suspect. Oh, they are also soft as a goose-feathered pillow.

We did nothing to address any of them to make a playoff push or just to shake it up. So I'm not sure how anyone thinks we're doing anything to make the playoffs other than possibly tripping our way in if the rest of the division completely shits the bed (The division is bad, and it almost happened last year, but we didn't care enough last year either).

Well, we could be close to your prediction and we are not going to blow it up. We have a good base of talent here, we just have to keep adding. I agree we are soft, have been for two years.

 

[BUX7PHX]

I believe coaching is our biggest problem as well, but Chayka shouldn't get off that easy. He hired RT, made the Kessel deal, which most loved around these parts, but has turned into a nightmare. Did not address toughness or our C problem. Still, this team would have made the playoffs, and still might, if not for the terrible play coming out of the Christmas break. This team played some real good hockey this year, so that is a positive, I guess.

Guess what - tons of people get hired for positions that they may not have all of the qualifications for. Chayka won't be the first or last person to hire someone who maybe wasn't quite as strong as it seemed. If Tocchet was the primary voice behind the Kessel deal and urged for it to be done, then I also believe that Chayka had some reason to be in favor of it. It looked okay - or did you forget 9 points in the first 13 games, which would put him on pace for about 55 points? Not bad, but not horrible.

The toughness and C problem is also something I am not necessarily seeing - he traded Connauton for Soderberg. Carl is a net front presence, but maybe did not have the toughness that I was hoping for. I think there was an expectation on Crouse and others to step that up, but that didn't happen. If anything, the lack of a 13th F who could make amends for any bad hits would be nice, but when you look at the roster, we had some small players, but Fischer, Crouse, and Soderberg were ones I was expecting a little more pushback from. We added Carl and already had the other two, so I don't quite know what happened there.

In my eyes, Chayka did most of the things that we needed to address. We needed offense and C depth, so Kessel and Soderberg for what amounted to Galchenyuk, POJ, and Connauton is actually a pretty solid deal.

 

[AZviaNJ]

We will need at least 92 points to scratch out that last playoff spot. We've got 70pts and 17 games to go. We need to go 11-6-0 or 10-5-2. It truly just seems impossible to me. We just haven't seen that before. I'm not sure why suddenly we would. Chayka is just hoping for a miracle because he's too scared to either admit he was wrong and make up for it, or double down and go for broke. This meek ass fingers crossed bullshit is going to set us waaay back.

Coyotes had a 1.27 PPG clip over their first 30 games against (arguably) a tougher schedule.

1.27 PPG * 17 games = 22 points

22 points get us to 92.

 

[_Del_]

Problem is that teams like Nashville can go 11-8-2 and get to 92 points.
We need to go 10-5-2 to get there.

 

[JTPoni23]

The toughness and C problem is also something I am not necessarily seeing

We are legitimately one of, if not the softest team in the league. Just last week our captain (who is not even remotely captain material but whatever, he is still our captain) got plastered into the boards and not a single teammate dared to come within 20 feet of Benn. Same thing happened with Schmaltz in the exact same game. This is not a one off, this is a season long reoccurring trend. If this happened 4 or 5 years ago and you swapped out Doan for OEL, Doan would not only be able to fend for himself, but you'd have 5 guys on those rosters of the past willing to defend their captain if Doan was unable to. There is no pride, no mental toughness, and certainly no physical toughness on this team.

 

[Jakey53]

Guess what - tons of people get hired for positions that they may not have all of the qualifications for. Chayka won't be the first or last person to hire someone who maybe wasn't quite as strong as it seemed. If Tocchet was the primary voice behind the Kessel deal and urged for it to be done, then I also believe that Chayka had some reason to be in favor of it. It looked okay - or did you forget 9 points in the first 13 games, which would put him on pace for about 55 points? Not bad, but not horrible.

The toughness and C problem is also something I am not necessarily seeing - he traded Connauton for Soderberg. Carl is a net front presence, but maybe did not have the toughness that I was hoping for. I think there was an expectation on Crouse and others to step that up, but that didn't happen. If anything, the lack of a 13th F who could make amends for any bad hits would be nice, but when you look at the roster, we had some small players, but Fischer, Crouse, and Soderberg were ones I was expecting a little more pushback from. We added Carl and already had the other two, so I don't quite know what happened there.

In my eyes, Chayka did most of the things that we needed to address. We needed offense and C depth, so Kessel and Soderberg for what amounted to Galchenyuk, POJ, and Connauton is actually a pretty solid deal.

Sorry, but if you don't think toughness or our C talent is not a problem, I guess we will agree to disagree.

 

[cobra427]

Sorry, but if you don't think toughness or our C talent is not a problem, I guess we will agree to disagree.

I kind of think coaching is the problem. I don't think we are getting the most out of our players. It is hard to evaluate certain players if the coach can't figure out how to get the best out of them. That excuse I have laid out doesn't apply to Kessel, he is a vet 80 point guy, no excuses for him. We might have the wrong mix, too many tiny wingers, I am not sure. I agree with you, that the C talent needs to be better but that is hard to do, none that could fix it are available.

I am mixed on Chayka, he has made good and bad moves.

 

[BUX7PHX]

We are legitimately one of, if not the softest team in the league. Just last week our captain (who is not even remotely captain material but whatever, he is still our captain) got plastered into the boards and not a single teammate dared to come within 20 feet of Benn. Same thing happened with Schmaltz in the exact same game. This is not a one off, this is a season long reoccurring trend. If this happened 4 or 5 years ago and you swapped out Doan for OEL, Doan would not only be able to fend for himself, but you'd have 5 guys on those rosters of the past willing to defend their captain if Doan was unable to. There is no pride, no mental toughness, and certainly no physical toughness on this team.

Sorry, but if you don't think toughness or our C talent is not a problem, I guess we will agree to disagree.

I guess that I was approaching this in the context of what Chayka did. We had questionable C depth. Chayka went out and got Soderberg to help alleviate some of that. Don't look now, but Soderberg is nearing 20 goals scored. He is a net-front presence. Now, had I been aware that being a net-front presence does not 100% mean that you have enforcer-like skills, it changes the story some. I expected a little bit of that grit out of Soderberg.

That's the tough part of this - there are guys who are 6'2" and 210 lbs. who won't engage. Then there are guys who are 5'8" 170 lbs. and they are willing to throw their weight around. When you look at our lineup at the beginning of the year, how many people suggested that "softness" would be our biggest issue? I think more people were still nervous about two things: will our goalies hold up to what they did last year and can we score goals? (Go back and look at the thread on the opening season roster and our concerns. Some people probably mentioned toughness, but I would say that was far lower on the list of needs at the start of the year. Now it is probably 1B, at the very worst)

I am not disagreeing with the idea that we are soft, but what I am saying is that if we were looking to be a soft team, we could have waited it out and not gone after Soderberg. Instead, we could have focused trade efforts on skill centers alone. If you want to complain, then complain about getting a C who didn't turn out to be a guy who would throw down or provide those big hits/grit that is needed. But to argue that little was done to help the C depth and toughness is wrong. There are not a ton of centers to be traded for, and we got one who could stand up to the physical punishment in the crease. Guess that physicality didn't carry over to being the aggressor when that situation arises.

Trust me, I get it - we wound up being way softer than expected, but nothing about the deal for Soderberg indicates that Chayka wasn't trying to affect center depth or toughness questions. If anything, it suggests that he recognized it, but we haven't seen the team back people up in that way, specifically Soderberg. With Crouse, Soderberg, and Fischer on the team, I thought we would be better at policing the game more, but we aren't. Guess my expectations of Soderberg relied on increased toughness too.

 

[rt]

Problem is that teams like Nashville can go 11-8-2 and get to 92 points.
We need to go 10-5-2 to get there.

I think people forgot to look at this.

 

[RemoAZ]

We have to finish the season playing our best hockey of the season and the only reason that is remotely possible is because Kuemper is back. Let's face it. If we aren't playing better than we have been all season, we'll just get smoked in the 1st round anyway if we make it. So if you look at it that way, we either take a huge step forward and have a shot at an at least entertaining 1st round or continue to suck and have a typical Coyotes off season with very little to look forward to next year. Only this offseason there will be no cap room or 1st round pick so extra shitty!

 

[Jakey53]

We have to finish the season playing our best hockey of the season and the only reason that is remotely possible is because Kuemper is back. Let's face it. If we aren't playing better than we have been all season, we'll just get smoked in the 1st round anyway if we make it. So if you look at it that way, we either take a huge step forward and have a shot at an at least entertaining 1st round or continue to suck and have a typical Coyotes off season with very little to look forward to next year. Only this offseason there will be no cap room or 1st round pick so extra shitty!

If we get into the playoffs the season becomes a success, if we don't it's a big failure.

 

[_Del_]

Sorry, but if we traded a first, POJ, Bahl, Merkley, Schnarr and a third just to get knocked out in the first round and watch Hall walk and get stuck with Kessel's contract -- that doesn't become a success.