Proposal: Trade Bob and use the cap space to improve D

[Crede777]

My take on Bob is that he is a top-10 goalie in the league when healthy and with a steady workload. Going in and out of the lineup obviously hurts him, he needs consecutive starts to get in a groove. About a month of being happy and starting consistently, and he becomes unbeatable.

That said, it would be remiss to overlook the fact that he HASN'T been healthy or consistent for the past 2-3 seasons. Further, the injuries seem to be a recurring groin problem.

The problem isn't his ability. It isn't even really his cap hit. It's his cap in conjunction with his inability to stay healthy.

The team can't jump on the Korpisalo train yet. To do so would be extremely premature.

I think the best choice is to stick with Bob for next season. The team must revamp it's approach, though. This was a team which made no attempt to hide the fact that it was relying upon its goalie to play at a Celina quality in order to have a chance at making the postseason. Can't have that. They need to expect Bob will play like an average starter and go from there.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Someone had mentioned that Bob and Arty were really good friends. I wonder how much of a toll that took on his psyche, fragile as it already is

 

[niflheim]

Someone had mentioned that Bob and Arty were really good friends. I wonder how much of a toll that took on his psyche, fragile as it already is

Bob is godfather of Arty's child and Bob's and Arty' wifes are always in close ( e- communication) contact. But I know nothing about Bob's intention to leave Columbus. I'm sure Bob is fine, now he is simply makes "dirty job" like Lundqvist in NYR ( Bob to get better draft position for us, Lundqvist to avoid Pittsburg in first playoff round).

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I don't think you're suggesting it, but if you are saying trade Saad, that is so dumb. One of if not the best player on our team. Retain about 2 mill and then see what the offers are.

I'm not advocating trading him. However, I think that the make up of this team will not make them Stanley Cup competitive and that Saad is certainly not an untouchable. Also, no "rebuild" is going to happen with current management. I doubt that Saad would be on the table under the current regime. Perhaps, the next

Is it though? I feel like his value is as low as it can go given his injury history and contract term presently. I am of the opinion we should ride Bob out one more year in the hopes he can play/get healthy. Given Korpi's solid play, and hopefully he continues to improve, ride that tandem for a year or so and then shop Bob.

I also think using 2 injury filled years as indicators that he peaked young is misguided, but they are what they are. I'd like more time to see if Korpi can keep it up, and see what happens with bob. We probably aren't a playoff team next year anyways so lets see if he can get healthy and increase his value. I think waiting a year leaves us pretty much the same options we have now, with the chance that they actually could improve.

I just look at two sub par years as being significant enough to justify moving him. It all comes down to risk analysis. I think that a 3rd year of decline/injuries turns him into a straight liability. At this point, I view him as an asset, albeit one which won't return as much as one would ideally want. Given his susceptibility to injury and his trend line, I place a great deal of risk in not pulling the trigger now. I don't see him having anywhere near the value at the same time next year-he'd require significant salary retention then while I don't think that he would now.

 

[We Want Ten]

I'm not advocating trading him. However, I think that the make up of this team will not make them Stanley Cup competitive and that Saad is certainly not an untouchable. Also, no "rebuild" is going to happen with current management. I doubt that Saad would be on the table under the current regime. Perhaps, the next



I just look at two sub par years as being significant enough to justify moving him. It all comes down to risk analysis. I think that a 3rd year of decline/injuries turns him into a straight liability. At this point, I view him as an asset, albeit one which won't return as much as one would ideally want. Given his susceptibility to injury and his trend line, I place a great deal of risk in not pulling the trigger now. I don't see him having anywhere near the value at the same time next year-he'd require significant salary retention then while I don't think that he would now.

You make some good points, I just disagree about his value or it dropping. I think even if he has another bad year, having one less year at 7.4 would offset that.
I honestly don't think his value can be lower than it is now.

Doesn't matter though, i'm sure the FO will find a way to screw it up anyways.

 

[KJ Dangler]

I look at the bob arguement in a different manner . Going into next season do we plan on contending for the cup ? If that's not a reality , why have a goalie making 7.4 mill , when last 2 years he's been average , and Korpi has been better than him this season . Can we take risk of having another bad contract on books if he continues to struggle ? If we are building around this young core in place and at minimum a couple years before were legit contenders , why keep him at that contract ?

 

[Valdiz]

I'm not advocating trading him. However, I think that the make up of this team will not make them Stanley Cup competitive and that Saad is certainly not an untouchable. Also, no "rebuild" is going to happen with current management. I doubt that Saad would be on the table under the current regime. Perhaps, the next

While Elliot Ness he isn't, i would think twice, nay, thrice before even considering moving Saad. The s**t they pulled to acquire him? The way he played in an otherwise all-sucky season? No way.

I just look at two sub par years as being significant enough to justify moving him. It all comes down to risk analysis. I think that a 3rd year of decline/injuries turns him into a straight liability. At this point, I view him as an asset, albeit one which won't return as much as one would ideally want. Given his susceptibility to injury and his trend line, I place a great deal of risk in not pulling the trigger now. I don't see him having anywhere near the value at the same time next year-he'd require significant salary retention then while I don't think that he would now.

However gut-wrenching this may be, it's true. The chances of him getting another injury-wrecked season are much higher than him pulling some weird woodo magic out of his a** and turning into vintage Bob. But as stingers pointed out, one less year. And I cant imagine Bob getting worse than now. So, not now, not in this offseason.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I look at the bob arguement in a different manner . Going into next season do we plan on contending for the cup ? If that's not a reality , why have a goalie making 7.4 mill , when last 2 years he's been average , and Korpi has been better than him this season . Can we take risk of having another bad contract on books if he continues to struggle ? If we are building around this young core in place and at minimum a couple years before were legit contenders , why keep him at that contract ?

This is a great point.

The Cincinnati Reds got rid of one of the best closers in baseball, Aldonis Chapman, this past off season. The Reds know that they are years away from contending and the notion of paying an elite closer top dollar on a 90+ loss team is absurd.

The big difference is that the current CBJ management can't look at their team being non contenders and start shedding contracts. They have to go with what they have because they don't have the leash to rebuild. If they don't win, then they will be canned at some point.

This CBJ team is 21 points out of a playoff spot. That's 10 wins out. And that's to just get in the dance. They're likely 15 wins away from being a SC contender. Does this roster have it in them to make up 15 wins? I think that would be quite an over optimistic projection for this lot.

I think this management is just hoping for a playoff berth of any type next season. That would probably be enough to save their a**** so they probably will stand pat and roll the dice on the current roster as that's their best chance to make the playoffs.

 

[major major]

However gut-wrenching this may be, it's true. The chances of him getting another injury-wrecked season are much higher than him pulling some weird woodo magic out of his a** and turning into vintage Bob. But as stingers pointed out, one less year. And I cant imagine Bob getting worse than now. So, not now, not in this offseason.

I don't think it's that unlikely that he returns to top form. I wouldn't wager that he tops .925, by any means, but its very possible. He's had month-long stretches this year and last where his save percentage was well above that. Getting back to that is really a matter of staying healthy and regaining confidence.

 

[major major]

To get any cap room-which is vital to becoming a competitive team-a player with a huge contract who is viewed as an asset will have to be traded. Those players would be Saad and Dubinsky. In the absence of trading either of these two, the next two in line to be realistically moved are Hartnell and Bob. The problem is that both have rapidly declining value. This summer is the window for both of these players. Once next season starts, the ability to ship either of these players will diminish greatly if either gets off to a slow start or is injured. Saad can be moved easily for years and Dubinsky for probably another year or two.
.

You're confusing your means and ends.

Cap room is not vital to becoming a competitive team. Good players are. You have to have $$$ as a means to the end of having good players.

You want $$$ so that you don't have to be in a position like Chicago where you have to trade Saad. I'm at a loss for words to describe your proposal, it feels like "Doctrine of Pre-emptive Surrender" or something like that.

The Cincinnati Reds got rid of one of the best closers in baseball, Aldonis Chapman, this past off season. The Reds know that they are years away from contending and the notion of paying an elite closer top dollar on a 90+ loss team is absurd.

The big difference is that the current CBJ management can't look at their team being non contenders and start shedding contracts. They have to go with what they have because they don't have the leash to rebuild. If they don't win, then they will be canned at some point.

This CBJ team is 21 points out of a playoff spot. That's 10 wins out. And that's to just get in the dance. They're likely 15 wins away from being a SC contender. Does this roster have it in them to make up 15 wins? I think that would be quite an over optimistic projection for this lot.

I think this management is just hoping for a playoff berth of any type next season. That would probably be enough to save their a**** so they probably will stand pat and roll the dice on the current roster as that's their best chance to make the playoffs.

It's not that crazy that this team will make the playoffs next year. They were generally forecast to do well this year, and many said that they could compete for the cup, including you. When a team falls far short of expectations, one of two things is usually going on 1) The team has just lost it's abilities, and is now past it's prime. 2) They're young and inconsistent. The guess was wrong about the timing of the breakout but the fundamentals are still there.

Last summer I thought the expectations were too high because we had one of the worst defenses in the league (It's much better with Jones but still not even average). But story #2 is still the most true for the Jackets. There are a few clubs in the league that can expect to get better by doing nothing, and the Jackets are one of them.

 

[We Want Ten]

Bob's first 6 games were bad:
.837 SV% 4.33 GAA 0-6 0 SO

Bob's next 30 games:
.915 SV% 2.23 GAA 14-13-1-1 1 SO

Bob for the season:
.909 SV% 2.72 GAA 14-19-1-1 1SO

Korpi for the season:
.920 SV% 2.60 GAA 16-11-4 0 SO

Korpi has somehow attained mythical status and it would be humorous if it wasn't so blatant. His stats aren't much different from a guy who started the way he did and went on to have 2 groin injuries and spend a bunch of time on the IR.

As the second highest paid goalie in the league bob has to play better, but handing the keys to the club over to guy with 31 career start is crazy. If Bob/Korpi split time next year, even as a 1A/1B, this team should be much improved. I don't see making up 10 wins over this year being that hard with this tandem.
If korpi continues to improve and Bob can stay healthy by not having to make 10 starts in a row again, moving bob at that point would make far more sense to me.

 

[CBJFan827]

Bob's first 6 games were bad:
.837 SV% 4.33 GAA 0-6 0 SO

Bob's next 30 games:
.915 SV% 2.23 GAA 14-13-1-1 1 SO

Bob for the season:
.909 SV% 2.72 GAA 14-19-1-1 1SO

Korpi for the season:
.920 SV% 2.60 GAA 16-11-4 0 SO

Korpi has somehow attained mythical status and it would be humorous if it wasn't so blatant. His stats aren't much different from a guy who started the way he did and went on to have 2 groin injuries and spend a bunch of time on the IR.

As the second highest paid goalie in the league bob has to play better, but handing the keys to the club over to guy with 31 career start is crazy. If Bob/Korpi split time next year, even as a 1A/1B, this team should be much improved. I don't see making up 10 wins over this year being that hard with this tandem.
If korpi continues to improve and Bob can stay healthy by not having to make 10 starts in a row again, moving bob at that point would make far more sense to me.

This +1.

I don't love Bob (in fact, I wish we'd shut him down for the season a month ago), but cutting bait and rolling Korpi 60 games next year is crazy talk, folks.

Granted, we run the risk of him going belly up and being absolutely untradeable next offseason, but I rather have the chance for a strong tandem than risk the whole pot on another Mason-esque rookie.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Bob's first 6 games were bad:
.837 SV% 4.33 GAA 0-6 0 SO

Bob's next 30 games:
.915 SV% 2.23 GAA 14-13-1-1 1 SO

Bob for the season:
.909 SV% 2.72 GAA 14-19-1-1 1SO

Korpi for the season:
.920 SV% 2.60 GAA 16-11-4 0 SO

Korpi has somehow attained mythical status and it would be humorous if it wasn't so blatant. His stats aren't much different from a guy who started the way he did and went on to have 2 groin injuries and spend a bunch of time on the IR.

As the second highest paid goalie in the league bob has to play better, but handing the keys to the club over to guy with 31 career start is crazy. If Bob/Korpi split time next year, even as a 1A/1B, this team should be much improved. I don't see making up 10 wins over this year being that hard with this tandem.
If korpi continues to improve and Bob can stay healthy by not having to make 10 starts in a row again, moving bob at that point would make far more sense to me.

Great post

 

[Cyclones Rock]

You're confusing your means and ends. Cap room is not vital to becoming a competitive team. Good players are. You have to have $$$ as a means to the end of having good players.

You want $$$ so that you don't have to be in a position like Chicago where you have to trade Saad. I'm at a loss for words to describe your proposal, it feels like "Doctrine of Pre-emptive Surrender" or something like that.

Thanks for the wisdom. It's good players that make a team good, not salary cap room. I'll have to file this one away.

Saad isn't a great player. He's good. I never said trade him. I did say that he is potential trade fodder-as is every player on this roster. There is no great player on this roster at any position. Of the seven big contract players, 3 are not moveable-Clarkson, Tyutin or Foligno. Therefore, to create salary cap room-which this team needs-there are only four other possibilities. They are Hartnell, Bob, Dubinsky and Saad. Saad would be my last choice to move among these, I think.

This team will need cap room to compete at the highest level. This roster isn't even close to SC potential-even at peak performance.

It's not that crazy that this team will make the playoffs next year. They were generally forecast to do well this year, and many said that they could compete for the cup, including you. When a team falls far short of expectations, one of two things is usually going on 1) The team has just lost it's abilities, and is now past it's prime. 2) They're young and inconsistent. The guess was wrong about the timing of the breakout but the fundamentals are still there.

Last summer I thought the expectations were too high because we had one of the worst defenses in the league (It's much better with Jones but still not even average). But story #2 is still the most true for the Jackets. There are a few clubs in the league that can expect to get better by doing nothing, and the Jackets are one of them.

I looked at them as having an outside chance, certainly not a good one. I vastly overvalued their finish of last year. The Jackets "getting better" doesn't mean much. They could get a lot better by standing pat and still miss the playoffs. I can't see this team finishing in front of Washington, Pittsburgh, NY Islanders or Philadelphia next season. The Rangers would have to go into steep decline for the Jackets to pass them I would think. The playoffs next season are going to be a very, very difficult proposition for the CBJ. They would have to have one hell of a "break out" to get into them.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Bob's first 6 games were bad:
.837 SV% 4.33 GAA 0-6 0 SO

Bob's next 30 games:
.915 SV% 2.23 GAA 14-13-1-1 1 SO

Bob for the season:
.909 SV% 2.72 GAA 14-19-1-1 1SO

Korpi for the season:
.920 SV% 2.60 GAA 16-11-4 0 SO

Korpi has somehow attained mythical status and it would be humorous if it wasn't so blatant. His stats aren't much different from a guy who started the way he did and went on to have 2 groin injuries and spend a bunch of time on the IR.

As the second highest paid goalie in the league bob has to play better, but handing the keys to the club over to guy with 31 career start is crazy. If Bob/Korpi split time next year, even as a 1A/1B, this team should be much improved. I don't see making up 10 wins over this year being that hard with this tandem.
If korpi continues to improve and Bob can stay healthy by not having to make 10 starts in a row again, moving bob at that point would make far more sense to me.

No offense , but how do you look at those stats , and say there isn't much of a difference ? Korpi ranked 16th in nhl , with a .920 save percentage. Bob who will make 7.4 mill, was 36th in the nhl with a .909 save percentage . Bobs save percentage was very close to Forsebergs this season . You can't simply disregard Bobs stats for the first 8 games, as he was a major part of the problem from my memory , starting with the first game where he gave up 3 goals in a 1 minute and 17 second span , which cost us the game . Heck the first 8 games , as u mentioned , he was bad , but also the team played bad, here was goals against . 4, 4,4 ,6,5,3,3, 1 .

The year prior , even when he went 30-17 with his record , his save percentage was only .918, with a 2.69 ga .

Korpi as a rookie , struggled initially as well, should we discount his first 8 games ? His goals against game log reads 2,4,2,4,4,4 (that's 4 goals against in 4of first 6 games )... From there on, he played stellar. His stats head to head are much better than Bobs this season, and for that matter , better than Bobs last season as well.

Which adds to the question, do u go into another season with Bob scheduled to make 7.4 mill, when he's the second best goalie on the team ? His numbers the past 2 seasons, we could trade for a middle range goalie, save probably 4 to 5 mill a year off cap, and still get better stats at goalie position .

 

[Jackets16]

Here are the questions you have to ask, IMO.

Is Bobrovsky or Korpisalo the better goaltender going forward?

Can another experienced goalie do what Bobrovsky has been doing the past 2 years?

Is it worth having a goaltender who counts for $7,425,000 against the cap worth it if you answered Korpisalo and yes?

I think we will be good next year, so I am not factoring that into the equation. You definitely trade him if you think we are going to be bad. It just isn't worth having an expensive goaltender if you aren't going to make the playoffs. For me, I would take the risk and trade him. I would plan on playing Korpisalo in 45-50 games and another experienced goaltender in 32-37 games.

 

[We Want Ten]

No offense , but how do you look at those stats , and say there isn't much of a difference ? Korpi ranked 16th in nhl , with a .920 save percentage. Bob who will make 7.4 mill, was 36th in the nhl with a .909 save percentage . Bobs save percentage was very close to Forsebergs this season . You can't simply disregard Bobs stats for the first 8 games, as he was a major part of the problem from my memory , starting with the first game where he gave up 3 goals in a 1 minute and 17 second span , which cost us the game . Heck the first 8 games , as u mentioned , he was bad , but also the team played bad, here was goals against . 4, 4,4 ,6,5,3,3, 1 .

The year prior , even when he went 30-17 with his record , his save percentage was only .918, with a 2.69 ga .

Korpi as a rookie , struggled initially as well, should we discount his first 8 games ? His goals against game log reads 2,4,2,4,4,4 (that's 4 goals against in 4of first 6 games )... From there on, he played stellar. His stats head to head are much better than Bobs this season, and for that matter , better than Bobs last season as well.

Which adds to the question, do u go into another season with Bob scheduled to make 7.4 mill, when he's the second best goalie on the team ? His numbers the past 2 seasons, we could trade for a middle range goalie, save probably 4 to 5 mill a year off cap, and still get better stats at goalie position .

I didn't disregard anything, I included all his stats.

I mean if I get to pick 8 games to not hold against bob, I can do it.

 

[We Want Ten]

Here are the questions you have to ask, IMO.

Is Bobrovsky or Korpisalo the better goaltender going forward?

Can another experienced goalie do what Bobrovsky has been doing the past 2 years?

Is it worth having a goaltender who counts for $7,425,000 against the cap worth it if you answered Korpisalo and yes?

I think we will be good next year, so I am not factoring that into the equation. You definitely trade him if you think we are going to be bad. It just isn't worth having an expensive goaltender if you aren't going to make the playoffs. For me, I would take the risk and trade him. I would plan on playing Korpisalo in 45-50 games and another experienced goaltender in 32-37 games.

How can anyone answer that when Korpi has just 31 starts? That's my whole argument, not that bob is better, just can we wait to see what the kid actually can do before we dump everything on him?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Here are the questions you have to ask, IMO.

Is Bobrovsky or Korpisalo the better goaltender going forward?

Can another experienced goalie do what Bobrovsky has been doing the past 2 years?

Is it worth having a goaltender who counts for $7,425,000 against the cap worth it if you answered Korpisalo and yes?

I think we will be good next year, so I am not factoring that into the equation. You definitely trade him if you think we are going to be bad. It just isn't worth having an expensive goaltender if you aren't going to make the playoffs. For me, I would take the risk and trade him. I would plan on playing Korpisalo in 45-50 games and another experienced goaltender in 32-37 games.

I agree with RD, and I even said so a couple months ago

But it's an interesting exercise (to me anyway) to wonder if [Korpi + quality option at 1B in net + upgrade at D] isn't better than the other possible configurations of the roster and the money.

 

[Jackets16]

How can anyone answer that when Korpi has just 31 starts? That's my whole argument, not that bob is better, just can we wait to see what the kid actually can do before we dump everything on him?

That is why there is risk. Did you read my entire post? IMO, based on the way the 2 have been playing, I'm willing to take the risk that Korpisalo will be better. If he isn't, no big deal, because he is making A LOT less. That is the point. Which would you rather do?

Take the chance Bobrovsky turns it around and becomes worth what he is making?

or

Take the chance Korpisalo continues to play well and is worth WAY MORE than what he is making?

To me, it isn't even close. There isn't much risk with Korpisalo, because of his contract. The risk is that we would have to find a new goaltender if he isn't good. I am willing to take that risk, though, because I don't think Bobrovsky is worth his contract and I don't think he ever will be again. I hope I am wrong about Bobrovsky, but it isn't a risk I am willing to take.

 

[We Want Ten]

That is why there is risk. Did you read my entire post? IMO, based on the way the 2 have been playing, I'm willing to take the risk that Korpisalo will be better. If he isn't, no big deal, because he is making A LOT less. That is the point. Which would you rather do?

Take the chance Bobrovsky turns it around and becomes worth what he is making?

or

Take the chance Korpisalo continues to play well and is worth WAY MORE than what he is making?

To me, it isn't even close. There isn't much risk with Korpisalo, because of his contract. The risk is that we would have to find a new goaltender if he isn't good. I am willing to take that risk, though, because I don't think Bobrovsky is worth his contract and I don't think he ever will be again. I hope I am wrong about Bobrovsky, but it isn't a risk I am willing to take.

I read it and I can see your point, because bob isn't worth his contract, he never was, healthy, or otherwise. I just would like to give korpi more time to develop and hopefully get bob healthier so he actually would be worth something to somebody.

If we run this tandem for 1 year and leave bob unprotected for the expansion draft, or he plays well enough and stays healthy enough to be a viable tradebait, I think that's the much better play than being impatient and essentially paying someone to take him as we surely would have to at this point.

I'm not anti-korpi, I just don't see the harm in waiting.

 

[NotWendell]

Plus Bob is said to have strong work ethic. Let Korpi train under him for a season and learn what it takes to be a full-time NHL netminder.

 

[Jackets16]

I read it and I can see your point, because bob isn't worth his contract, he never was, healthy, or otherwise. I just would like to give korpi more time to develop and hopefully get bob healthier so he actually would be worth something to somebody.

If we run this tandem for 1 year and leave bob unprotected for the expansion draft, or he plays well enough and stays healthy enough to be a viable tradebait, I think that's the much better play than being impatient and essentially paying someone to take him as we surely would have to at this point.

I'm not anti-korpi, I just don't see the harm in waiting.

Those are good points, but if you can find someone to take his contract, you have to trade him, IMO. You never know if you will be able to find someone to trade for him in the future. We just can't be paying a goaltender what we are paying him. I wouldn't want us to pay any goaltender that much. I think we would be just fine with Korpisalo and an experienced goaltender for next year. Bobrovsky needs to play in a lot of games to do well and that would mean Korpisalo wouldn't be playing in a lot of games or would be in the AHL.

 

[Jackets16]

Plus Bob is said to have strong work ethic. Let Korpi train under him for a season and learn what it takes to be a full-time NHL netminder.

Korpisalo playing a lot of games is way more valuable. He should be in the AHL if all he is doing is watching Bobrovsky. So, he wouldn't be watching him anyway.

 

[We Want Ten]

Those are good points, but if you can find someone to take his contract, you have to trade him, IMO. You never know if you will be able to find someone to trade for him in the future. We just can't be paying a goaltender what we are paying him. I wouldn't want us to pay any goaltender that much. I think we would be just fine with Korpisalo and an experienced goaltender for next year. Bobrovsky needs to play in a lot of games to do well and that would mean Korpisalo wouldn't be playing in a lot of games or would be in the AHL.

If we could do it with no retention and no bad contract in return, I would. No argument, no complaining(for the most part).

I just am not ready to make the leap of faith into korpis slender, fair skinned arms yet. But for the right price... I could be bought.