Trade and Free Agent Discussion Thread - 2018/2019 Season v1

[Fogelhund]

Would hey be willing to add Jake Bean to Pesce? Julien Gauthier my be worth a shot too.

I’d be happy with that.... Pesce, Bean or Gauthier, and a 1st for Nylander.

We aren't getting all of that for Nylander.


If it were Bean + Pesce, we'd need to add a little...
If it were Pesce + Gauthier, they'd need to add a little.

We aren't getting Pesce + a 1st.

 

[firstemperor]

Would hey be willing to add Jake Bean to Pesce? Julien Gauthier my be worth a shot too.

I’d be happy with that.... Pesce, Bean or Gauthier, and a 1st for Nylander.

Bean might a bit much, as an add onto a unprotected lottery 1st + Pesce- though I'm not particularly high on Bean.

It would have to be a unprotected 1st at minimum, on top of Pesce though. He's a capable top pairing defensive D, with a elite defensive caliber player in Slavin....with limited offense or creativity. We'll probably be kicking ourselves for a while if we did that trade and Nylander develops into what he could become, especially if he moves to the center of the ice.

Nylander's only flaw is he's soft and struggles to take a hit to make a play, at least right now (when the intensity picks up). That should come with time. He's an incredible talent otherwise.

We aren't getting Pesce + a 1st.

I think it's a fair ask for Nylander, even if Cane fans don't do it. I wouldn't be comfortable doing that either.

 

[Dreakmur]

We aren't getting all of that for Nylander.


If it were Bean + Pesce, we'd need to add a little...
If it were Pesce + Gauthier, they'd need to add a little.

We aren't getting Pesce + a 1st.

I think it depends what Nylander signs for. If he signs for 6+, he’s worth a lot more, isn’t he?

I see Bean as a Dermott kind of player. Not particularly high ceiling, but a good middle pair guy.

 

[Dreakmur]

Bean might a bit much, as an add onto a unprotected lottery 1st + Pesce- though I'm not particularly high on Bean.

It would have to be a unprotected 1st at minimum, on top of Pesce though. He's a capable top pairing defensive D, with a elite defensive caliber player in Slavin....with limited offense or creativity. We'll probably be kicking ourselves for a while if we did that trade and Nylander develops into what he could become, especially if he moves to the center of the ice.

Nylander's only flaw is he's soft and struggles to take a hit to make a play, at least right now (when the intensity picks up). That should come with time. He's an incredible talent otherwise.



I think it's a fair ask for Nylander, even if Cane fans don't do it. I wouldn't be comfortable doing that either.

I don’t think Nylander ever gets a chance to fully live up to his potential in Toronto. He’ll never get a shot at center. He’s almost certainly going to be stuck on the 2nd line and the 2nd power play unit.

We’re not losing what he becomes somewhere else. We’re losing what he would have become here.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think it depends what Nylander signs for. If he signs for 6+, he’s worth a lot more, isn’t he?

I see Bean as a Dermott kind of player. Not particularly high ceiling, but a good middle pair guy.

Certainly it's easier to move Nylander signed at 6-6.5 vs. 8-8.5...

My suggestion was based on Nylander in around $6.5... cap hit is more, and we get less.

 

[Havoc]

Nylander for Pesce and Cliff Pu?

Pesce is the perfect partner for Reilly. Hainsey moves down to third pairing with Dermott.

Pu is a local kid, fast and ready for a shot in the NHL. Beside Kadri and Brown.

Nylander for Pesce makes no sense.

We have a RHD in Liljegren who will potentially be better or equal to Pesce as soon as next year. Sandin looks like he'll eventually have similar effects on Corsi that guys like Slavin have as well.

Also keep in mind a team like the Ducks are 3-0 with 4 goals against with a bunch of nobodies on forward +Rakell right now. Their top 4 D + goalie are amazing and enough for them to make the playoffs even with scraps on forward.

What do you think happens when Carolina finishes their top 6 forward group to go along with their Ducks-like defence? Carolina smokes us in the conference finals in as little as 1-2 years if we accelerate their top 6 build with Nylander.



If Carolina wants Nylander I take Slavin back or no deal. Keep Nylander and figure out the Hainsey and #6 woes another way. Assets like Nylander can't be found when you're not finishing near the bottom of the league any more but you don't need a top 10 pick to find these defenseman that end up carrying teams out of no where.

I'm putting my money on the young Swedes. Carolina built Slavin and Pesce from their draft picks. Same as Ducks with Manson and Montour. I don't see why we can't do the same.



If gamble pays off on Lil and Sandin and we keep Nylander.....the league is a wrap. 2 cups minimum before Tavares retires.

We just need to figure out that #6 spot until Sandin is ready and hope Gardiner doesn't pull a Trouba.

 

[TML1967]

Would hey be willing to add Jake Bean to Pesce? Julien Gauthier my be worth a shot too.

I’d be happy with that.... Pesce, Bean or Gauthier, and a 1st for Nylander.

I prefer Gauthier to Bean. We need size in our F group and he provides that. Last year he deviled a bit more snarl to his game so he looks pretty nice. Thus is assuming Fox is a no.

Nylander + 2nd for Pesce Gauthier and a unprotected 1st?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Kind of remembering Ottawa back in the day with their riches on RW with Alfredsson, Hossa and Havlat. Hopefully we do better.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think there’s zero chance Canes would move Slavin for Nylander. Probably less than zero, so if that’s the ask, then there’s no discussion to be had.

I also highly doubt the Canes would be including an unprotected 1st with Pesce either. Maybe later in the year if they are confident they are a playoff team, but I’d be very surprised right now.

I don’t think Pesce is untouchable by any means, but he’s a young, solid defenseman on a great contract so there’s not a lot of incentive to move him unless it’s the right deal. As a fan of both teams, I definitely think Willy has more value, but not as much as some of these posts are suggesting.

 

[Ovate]

If Nylander isn't willing to sign with us for less than say $8M, then he won't be willing to sign with a team like the Canes for less than that same $8M. Trading Nylander because we can't sign him to a reasonable deal will end up returning assets appropriate for Nylander at a overpayment, not Nylander as an RFA with unknown demands.

 

[Dreakmur]

If Nylander isn't willing to sign with us for less than say $8M, then he won't be willing to sign with a team like the Canes for less than that same $8M. Trading Nylander because we can't sign him to a reasonable deal will end up returning assets appropriate for Nylander at a overpayment, not Nylander as an RFA with unknown demands.

That is correct.

 

[613Leafer]

Which is why if we can't get Nylander signed to a fair long-term deal, we should try to get him signed to a 3-4 year deal with a caphit in the 5-5.5M range, because that would have a lot of trade value in the off-season.

Unsigned Nylander with outrageous contract demands in October isn't easy to trade and get good value for.

 

[Fogelhund]

Nylander for Pesce makes no sense.

We have a RHD in Liljegren who will potentially be better or equal to Pesce as soon as next year. Sandin looks like he'll eventually have similar effects on Corsi that guys like Slavin have as well.

In no world, are Liljegren and Pesce even close to the same player. Lily is never going to be the defensive guy that Pesce is, and really, both are pretty valuable to have.

Sandin, similar effects on Corsi as Slavin? We are talking about a prospect, who has proven nothing at this juncture, and comparing him to one of the most rounded top ten D in the game in all likelihood.... If Sandin turns into a top 4, that is wonderful, but Slavin is a top ten first pairing D....

 

[Trapper]

In no world, are Liljegren and Pesce even close to the same player. Lily is never going to be the defensive guy that Pesce is, and really, both are pretty valuable to have.

Sandin, similar effects on Corsi as Slavin? We are talking about a prospect, who has proven nothing at this juncture, and comparing him to one of the most rounded top ten D in the game in all likelihood.... If Sandin turns into a top 4, that is wonderful, but Slavin is a top ten first pairing D....

Not to mention we aren't even sure if Lily makes the roster next year let alone Sandin.
Borgman and Rosen are more physically mature and neither one of them made the cut this year. And that was going up against Hainsey,Marincin,Holl,Oz.

 

[BlueForever75]

Nylander isn't being traded this year. Give it a rest folks!!!

Leafs are proving that Nylander can sit as long as he likes, when he is ready to sign at their number come calling. No rush to sign him at all.

 

[rumman]

Nylander for Pesce and Cliff Pu?

Pesce is the perfect partner for Reilly. Hainsey moves down to third pairing with Dermott.

Pu is a local kid, fast and ready for a shot in the NHL. Beside Kadri and Brown.

I think your right, Pesce would fit very nicely beside Morgan. Signed to a team friendly contract, non flashy steady as she goes RHD. Just what the doctor ordered. Not familiar with Pu, but Pesce for Nylander is a steal, in fact the Leafs would probably have to add, something I'd be more than willing to do. Nylander is easily replaced, Kappy is proving that anyone with some speed and a good set of hands will look great on Mathews wing. Bonus is Kappy willingly goes into the tough areas to retrieve the puck, Willie won't do that.

 

[SprDaVE]

I think your right, Pesce would fit very nicely beside Morgan. Signed to a team friendly contract, non flashy steady as she goes RHD. Just what the doctor ordered. Not familiar with Pu, but Pesce for Nylander is a steal, in fact the Leafs would probably have to add, something I'd be more than willing to do. Nylander is easily replaced, Kappy is proving that anyone with some speed and a good set of hands will look great on Mathews wing. Bonus is Kappy willingly goes into the tough areas to retrieve the puck, Willie won't do that.

That's enough for me today.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Nylander isn't being traded this year. Give it a rest folks!!!

Leafs are proving that Nylander can sit as long as he likes, when he is ready to sign at their number come calling. No rush to sign him at all.

Is that what's best for the team - for Willy to sit at home while a season gets played without him? How's that helping us right now? How's that helping us long term?

It's in everyone's best interest to resolve this as quickly as possible. For me, I'm much more on the trade-him side now than I was pre camp. I'd definitely be looking at good young or estavlished D + good young forward packages - ideally, someone up front that has a bit of bite, and someone on the blue line that's a stable presence and can eat minutes but doesn't necessarily have offensive pedigree of guys like Lily, Jake, Rielly, etc.

I would also be leaning more heavily on Dermott this year as the season progresses.

 

[BlueForever75]

Is that what's best for the team - for Willy to sit at home while a season gets played without him? How's that helping us right now? How's that helping us long term?

It's in everyone's best interest to resolve this as quickly as possible. For me, I'm much more on the trade-him side now than I was pre camp. I'd definitely be looking at good young or estavlished D + good young forward packages - ideally, someone up front that has a bit of bite, and someone on the blue line that's a stable presence and can eat minutes but doesn't necessarily have offensive pedigree of guys like Lily, Jake, Rielly, etc.

I would also be leaning more heavily on Dermott this year as the season progresses.

I do not see why we cannot lean on what we have like you said. And hold on to Nylander until he breaks in his demands. Understand one thing, what is best for this team is signing Nylander long term on a team friendly deal. Not only will it help the Leafs in their cap world, but it will also allow them to get more for him when the time comes that we want to bolster our lineup in other places.

Is the offence struggling without him right now? Are we losing more then winning right now? If the answer to both is NO, then there is no reason to trade him. It would be poor asset management to trade him without a long term deal signed. He holds more value signed long term.

 

[rumman]

That's enough for me today.

I'm not sure if your undervaluing Pesce or overvaluing Nylander, but young RHD's that are signed to contracts that are a steal are worth plenty, one dimensional wingers that are butter soft and are looking for 2 million over fair market value, not so much. Reality sucks eh?

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm not sure if your undervaluing Pesce or overvaluing Nylander, but young RHD's that are signed to contracts that are a steal are worth plenty, one dimensional wingers that are butter soft and are looking for 2 million over fair market value, not so much. Reality sucks eh?

You're overvaluing Pesce by far and completely underrating Nylander. One for one is already questionable enough but at least there's some sense there depending on your perception and opinion, even if it's wrong. I'm not sure this is about a reality thing.

"soft as butter" "one dimensional" -- Seems like you have it figured out. Pesce didn't even average a hit a game and has never produced more than 20 points in a season... but yeah, Nylander is the only one "one dimensional" and "soft as butter". Let me guess, you thought Hall for Larsson was also a steal for the Oilers?

 

[rumman]

You're overvaluing Pesce by far and completely underrating Nylander. One for one is already questionable enough but at least there's some sense there depending on your perception and opinion, even if it's wrong. I'm not sure this is about a reality thing.

"soft as butter" "one dimensional" -- Seems like you have it figured out. Pesce didn't even average a hit a game and has never produced more than 20 points in a season... but yeah, Nylander is the only one "one dimensional" and "soft as butter". Let me guess, you thought Hall for Larsson was also a steal for the Oilers?

Pesce keeps goal out of the net, doesn't put goals into the net, that's the definition of "stay at home" defenseman.

 

[SprDaVE]

Pesce keeps goal out of the net, doesn't put goals into the net, that's the definition of "stay at home" defenseman.

And Nylander has puck possession numbers and has a point trajectory that would define him as a Star player in the making, if not right now on most other teams.

Not to slag Pesce here because I like him but Nylander kind of players are a lot more unique and a lot more valuable. That's the reality.

 

[rumman]

And Nylander has puck possession numbers and has a point trajectory that would define him as a Star player in the making, if not right now on most other teams.

Not to slag Pesce here because I like him but Nylander kind of players are a lot more unique and a lot more valuable. That's the reality.

Nylander had less than 1 hit every 4 games, soft as butter

 

[SprDaVE]

Nylander had less than 1 hit every 4 games, soft as butter

20 points.