Tough life in the Metropolitan division

[1865]

Near the top? I think you meant bottom 10, they had benefitted second least out of the entire eastern conference. And there are more Metro teams in that top 10 than Atlantic teams.

Again...of course there is! There's 8 decent/good Met teams and there's only 3 in the Atlantic.

The % of points thing isn't really accurate either as it could drop teams that have done well against your division but not elsewhere, it also drops the Western teams too, as shown by Nashville being 100% but bottom of your rankings. It isn't really a very good study and none of it benefits your hypothesis.

Really, all I can see is that against your division Toronto, Tampa and Boston are 21-5-3 and that even includes games against each other. I imagine it's even steeper when you remove those games.

 

[1865]

Near the top? I think you meant bottom 10, they had benefitted second least out of the entire eastern conference. And there are more Metro teams in that top 10 than Atlantic teams.

I just ran the numbers for BOS, TBL and TOR against the rest of their division (excluding each other) and they're 10-1-1, 9-3-1 and 6-2-1 respectively, a combined 25-6-3, a winning percentage of 73%.

So yeh, they're not running up the numbers against their own division at all.....

Yes, everyone else might be doing well against the bottom 5 too, but they don't play them as often.

 

[Ms Maggie]

What's the point here?

Was the NFC East tough this year?Hmm. Nope. There was one NFL division with more teams with a winning record than a losing record: the NFC South.

Not sure but really think that big parade in New Orleans last week wasn't for the Saints...

 

[Ms Maggie]

There’s no doubt the Metro is a weaker division this year than last, even if there are no bottom feeders.

It had numerous legit heavyweight. Now I don’t think there are other contenders there than the Pens. All due respect to the division leading caps, but last years iteration was much stronger.

Pens extending their vacation to 2018 is what has them off Tampa/Boston pace.

Not sure. The M has only one team with more losses than wins. The Atlantic is much less competitive in that sense. Does that make the M "weaker"?

Well you could argue the top M teams are inferior to the top A teams. But that isn't the same as the M division being "weaker" than the A.

When you evaluate the strength/weakness of a division. You don't get to ignore the bad teams, right.

Maybe just semantics.

 

[Tender Rip]

Not sure. The M has only one team with more losses than wins. The Atlantic is much less competitive in that sense. Does that make the M "weaker"?

Well you could argue the top M teams are inferior to the top A teams. But that isn't the same as the M division being "weaker" than the A.

When you evaluate the strength/weakness of a division. You don't get to ignore the bad teams, right.

Maybe just semantics.

The Metro currently has 4 teams with more wins than losses (an OT or SO loss remains a loss).

But what I meant was that last season, Caps, Pens and Columbus legitimately looked like elite teams leaguewide for most the season.
This season not a single Metro team has done so - except Pens in 2018, having to erase a stinker of a first half just to look a certainty for the playoffs.

Flip side as mentioned is that there are no stinkers, although Rangers is starting to look like that not least because of being savaged by injuries. They’re flawed, not a contender, but not baaad.

 

[joe dirte]

I just ran the numbers for BOS, TBL and TOR against the rest of their division (excluding each other) and they're 10-1-1, 9-3-1 and 6-2-1 respectively, a combined 25-6-3, a winning percentage of 73%.

So yeh, they're not running up the numbers against their own division at all.....

Yes, everyone else might be doing well against the bottom 5 too, but they don't play them as often.

oh okay, who hasn't played them as often? specifically who?

 

[Coastal Kev]

They behave like that with everyone. As if cheering for a championship team gave them moral superiority over us mere peasants who cheer for teams that haven't won a Cup. Take the high road man.

You're not wrong..... After 5 Cups, I have a Masters Degree in Moral Superiority.

Thank you for noticing.

 

[St3]

I just noticed the entire Metropolitan division fits in between 3rd and 4th in the Atlantic. Strange season.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I just noticed the entire Metropolitan division fits in between 3rd and 4th in the Atlantic. Strange season.

Points aren’t as easily obtained playing against stronger competition.

 

[C0DITH]

If the Flyers has a legit goalie, they would be the best in the division. Sadly, that probably won't happen for a few more years.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

If the Flyers has a legit goalie, they would be the best in the division. Sadly, that probably won't happen for a few more years.

No we wouldn't

 

[KingsFan7824]

Not sure. The M has only one team with more losses than wins. The Atlantic is much less competitive in that sense. Does that make the M "weaker"?

Well you could argue the top M teams are inferior to the top A teams. But that isn't the same as the M division being "weaker" than the A.

When you evaluate the strength/weakness of a division. You don't get to ignore the bad teams, right.

Maybe just semantics.

Depends on how you define that. Are normal 60 minute wins the same as a 5 minute 3v3 win? I would say no. If we go by regulation totals, Columbus has 17 W's, and 25 L's. NYI, 20-25. NYR, 19-28. Car, 22-23. Those are more comparable to the bottom of the Atlantic than at first glance, not counting Buffalo. Sabres are off by themselves a bit.

Regulation, OT, and the SO are three distinct events. The league throws regulation and OT wins together though, and also OT and SO losses into the same category. Columbus looks better than they probably should right now, thanks to their 6 OT, and 6 SO wins, which are different than regulation wins.

 

[Ms Maggie]

The Metro currently has 4 teams with more wins than losses (an OT or SO loss remains a loss).

But what I meant was that last season, Caps, Pens and Columbus legitimately looked like elite teams leaguewide for most the season.
This season not a single Metro team has done so - except Pens in 2018, having to erase a stinker of a first half just to look a certainty for the playoffs.

Flip side as mentioned is that there are no stinkers, although Rangers is starting to look like that not least because of being savaged by injuries. They’re flawed, not a contender, but not baaad.

What teams "look like" to you, or anyone--is that important?

Put it another way: are regular season points correlated with Cup wins?

 

[Rebels57]

If the Flyers has a legit goalie, they would be the best in the division. Sadly, that probably won't happen for a few more years.

Also need one more top 4 dman, which should come from within in the form of Sanheim, and a better 3C. We are 1 year away IMO.

 

[Ms Maggie]

N

Depends on how you define that. Are normal 60 minute wins the same as a 5 minute 3v3 win? I would say no. If we go by regulation totals, Columbus has 17 W's, and 25 L's. NYI, 20-25. NYR, 19-28. Car, 22-23. Those are more comparable to the bottom of the Atlantic than at first glance, not counting Buffalo. Sabres are off by themselves a bit.

Regulation, OT, and the SO are three distinct events. The league throws regulation and OT wins together though, and also OT and SO losses into the same category. Columbus looks better than they probably should right now, thanks to their 6 OT, and 6 SO wins, which are different than regulation wins.

Not sure of your logic. Teams are aware of the non regulation rules. OT and even SOs are not rare events. They are part of the game. Devaluing them seems pretty arbitrary.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Points aren’t as easily obtained playing against stronger competition.

Tampa Bay, 16GP against the Atlantic, 17GP against the Metro
Boston, 16 and 18
Toronto, 15 and 19

Pittsburgh, 16 and 17
Washington, 16 and 19
Philadelphia, 16 and 17
New Jersey, 19 and 18
NYI, 16 and 19
Carolina, 17 and 18
Columbus, 18 and 22

Roughly the same amount of games played all around.

Of those 10 teams, only Pit and the NYI have a better points% against the Metro than the Atlantic. Boston has the highest points% against Metro teams. TB the 4th highest, behind Pit and Was.

Boston has the highest points% against the Atlantic too. By far actually. 2nd and 3rd are Pit and Was, and then Philly is a smidge above TB. Then Carolina is 6th.

 

[joe dirte]

Again...of course there is! There's 8 decent/good Met teams and there's only 3 in the Atlantic.

The % of points thing isn't really accurate either as it could drop teams that have done well against your division but not elsewhere, it also drops the Western teams too, as shown by Nashville being 100% but bottom of your rankings. It isn't really a very good study and none of it benefits your hypothesis.

Really, all I can see is that against your division Toronto, Tampa and Boston are 21-5-3 and that even includes games against each other. I imagine it's even steeper when you remove those games.

there are 8 decent teams in the metro. not good. there are no TOP teams in the metro. zero.

I do t know why people have a hard time understanding, the teams in the metro have played against the bottom 5 teams in the Atlantic just as much as the top 3 in the Atlantic.

 

[KingsFan7824]

N

Not sure of your logic. Teams are aware of the non regulation rules. OT and even SOs are not rare events. They are part of the game. Devaluing them seems pretty arbitrary.

Not rare events, but distinct events. Which also don't happen come playoff time.

The reason I devalue OT/SO wins is because the Kings led the league with 12 OT wins last year, but missed the playoffs by 8 points. Colorado was 7-2 in OT last year. Pittsburgh was 6-6. Anaheim was 3-10. Nashville was 4-8. Florida was 7-5. Vancouver was 7-7.

3v3 OT is pretty random. That extra point counts in the standings, so you get it when you can, but I'd rather keep my eye on the W's and L's in regulation. The better ratio you have there, the more likely it is you make the playoffs.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Not rare events, but distinct events. Which also don't happen come playoff time.

The reason I devalue OT/SO wins is because the Kings led the league with 12 OT wins last year, but missed the playoffs by 8 points. Colorado was 7-2 in OT last year. Pittsburgh was 6-6. Anaheim was 3-10. Nashville was 4-8. Florida was 7-5. Vancouver was 7-7.

3v3 OT is pretty random. That extra point counts in the standings, so you get it when you can, but I'd rather keep my eye on the W's and L's in regulation. The better ratio you have there, the more likely it is you make the playoffs.

Well given a significant majority of games are regulation w/l, obviously that ratio has a high correlation with getting to playoffs.

I get your point though.

 

[Tender Rip]

What teams "look like" to you, or anyone--is that important?

Put it another way: are regular season points correlated with Cup wins?

I am now officially at a loss to understand what point you might be trying to make.

 

[Ms Maggie]

I am now officially at a loss to understand what point you might be trying to make.

My point is the only thing that matters is winning the Cup. Whether a division is flat or top-heavy seems unimportant unless it somehow gives a team an edge in the playoffs.

Peeps here have their biases and will interpret the standings to fit those. No sure what the end game is?

Sorry, didn't mean to be obtuse.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Also need one more top 4 dman, which should come from within in the form of Sanheim, and a better 3C. We are 1 year away IMO.

Also need to subtract a Hakstol as well.

 

[Bladerunner]

Not rare events, but distinct events. Which also don't happen come playoff time.

True.

The reason I devalue OT/SO wins is because the Kings led the league with 12 OT wins last year, but missed the playoffs by 8 points. Colorado was 7-2 in OT last year. Pittsburgh was 6-6. Anaheim was 3-10. Nashville was 4-8. Florida was 7-5. Vancouver was 7-7.

3v3 OT is pretty random. That extra point counts in the standings, so you get it when you can, but I'd rather keep my eye on the W's and L's in regulation. The better ratio you have there, the more likely it is you make the playoffs.

It is? You don't think some teams are better at 3v3 than others? Many say the SO is "random". Some, like you, suggest 3v3 is pretty random. Let's continue, with the parity in the NHL might as well infer 5v5 is pretty random.

I think when some people use the term "random" they mean close to a 50-50% chance of success (or failure).
If I decide to sample 10 items from 100, I can do it in a random or deterministic way (either way only 10% of the universe will be selected). In other words random does not imply a 50% outcome and a 50% outcome does not imply randomness.

Anyway, I don't think 3v3 is "random" nor a 50-50 "coin flip".

OTOH it might be correct to devalue OT/SO wins w.r.t. predicting the likelihood to make the playoffs and even playoff success. I'd like to see a statistical study of this. Might be easier to find such a study than to collect and work the data

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Tampa Bay, 16GP against the Atlantic, 17GP against the Metro
Boston, 16 and 18
Toronto, 15 and 19

Pittsburgh, 16 and 17
Washington, 16 and 19
Philadelphia, 16 and 17
New Jersey, 19 and 18
NYI, 16 and 19
Carolina, 17 and 18
Columbus, 18 and 22

Roughly the same amount of games played all around.

Of those 10 teams, only Pit and the NYI have a better points% against the Metro than the Atlantic. Boston has the highest points% against Metro teams. TB the 4th highest, behind Pit and Was.

Boston has the highest points% against the Atlantic too. By far actually. 2nd and 3rd are Pit and Was, and then Philly is a smidge above TB. Then Carolina is 6th.

This is especially impressive for NJ as they only have eighth more games against Western teams and fifteen against Eastern

 

[Bramskii]

Flyers are a legit playoff team, any team that loses 10 in a row but still finds a way to climb back into top 3 deserves to be there...and this is is coming from a pens fan.

The Flyers have the most potent offensive lineup in the league. Of all the teams the Devils have faced this year, none scared me more than Philly. They definitely need work in other areas, but thats a legit playoff caliber team that could go deep if their goaltending gets hot.