Torts Reform: Coaching Discussion Thread III

[KJ Dangler]

More names to ponder .. I’ve heard former Jacket Derek McKenzie , who is an assistant with Columbus South. Around here , I’ve heard Manny Malhotra . Would have to think Joel Bouchard could be an option . Jukka Jalonen gave a long interview yesterday , seems interested in NHL , said his play style would resemble Tampa Bay Lightning .

 

[koteka]

We should throw Kris Knoblauch’s name out there. He is the AHL guy in the Rangers organization. The Rangers played better when he filled in due to COVID. He had been the Erie Otters head coach before the AHL so in theory he can develop players and work with the new generation of players. He was also an NHL assistant in Philadelphia.

I really don’t want a retread.

 

[VT]

If Torts would gone , I would like to see a coach like Andrei Razin in KHL. He prefers an offensive, speed, combination hockey, one excelent works with young players and he doesn`t afraid for give them a lots of time. Include PO. Btw he`s very emotional with sense for humour.

 

[gearmex]

They throw out the names: Hurja huhu: Jukka Jalosta kaavaillaan John Tortorellan tilalle NHL:ssä! - Leijonat

Kevin Dineen, Gerard Gallant or Jukka Jalonen as for Head coach. Will be interesting to see who comes.

 

[jonlin]

I`d hire Gallant as headcoach and Jalonen as No 2.

 

[Viqsi]

Still very much Do Not Want Gallant. Not with the way he's been kicked out of every HC job he's ever had after less than three years.

 

[EspenK]

From LeBrun''s article in The Atlantic:

“As I(Jarmo) said, he’s a great coach, he’s got all these wins in the league, and he’s stayed in the league for a long time for a reason. I have a lot of respect for him.”

My take: This decision isn’t just what Kekalainen feels is right moving forward; it’s just as much what Tortorella feels like doing. Does the veteran coach want a new challenge? Or is he happy to stay put?

I feel like this one is headed for a split after a fun journey together.

 

[koteka]

For all the people wanting a specific coach hired as an assistant, do you think an experienced head coach will accept the job knowing his likely replacement as already decided by the club is next to him?

I have built several teams in my career. My first question when someone approaches me to start or take over a difficult project is “Do I get to pick the staff I want to work with?” I don’t mind training people in lower positions, but I want to choose the key players. What is a more difficult project than coaching this team?

To be successful you pretty much have to hire a coach and let him pick his assistants. The guy doesn’t get a blank check. — you have veto power when he proposes his staff. But you don’t want him to feel micromanaged day 1. You might get away with something like telling him to keep a current assistant on his staff because he has a good relationship with some key guys or is great in development, but I expect that is it.

You might be able to say something like, “You are an experienced coach. We are committed to bringing in some new blood to the NHL so please consider a European or these guys we have been watching, but your staff is your call.” You have mo leverage depending on how badly the guy wants a head coaching job. But anything along the lines of “You must hire X from outside the organization” is asking for problems.

 

[tellermine]

Galland and Jalonen would be nice.
After Galland gets off, like 2 seasons, Jalonen can take the helm.

 

[DarkandStormy]

For as much love as Jalonen gets on this board, I'm surprised more people aren't talking about Rikard Gronborg.

 

[KJ Dangler]

For as much love as Jalonen gets on this board, I'm surprised more people aren't talking about Rikard Gronborg.

His team has said in past they wont let him out of contract, and pretty sure he just resigned with them recently .

 

[tapi]

Jalonen is an amazing coach, the goat of Finnish coaching for sure. Heads and shoulders above most NHL coaches as far the strategical side goes, but has also shown great leadership throughout his career. As an additional plus, if there is one coach in the world who could potentially revive Laine, it's him.

With his experience I doubt he would fold under the pressure in the NHL or anything like that. I would say this is a risk worth taking for CBJ, especially considering the abysmal state of things right now. Not much to lose, all to gain.

 

[DarkandStormy]

His team has said in past they wont let him out of contract, and pretty sure he just resigned with them recently .

ZSC Lions sign Rikard Grönborg to early contract extension

Maybe I misunderstood the usage of "out clause" in this article.

 

[majormajor]

Still very much Do Not Want Gallant. Not with the way he's been kicked out of every HC job he's ever had after less than three years.

You don't think it's possible for someone to be fired three times like that and it not be a result of incompetence? Have you ever had a short-sighted boss? Or worse, an incompetent or sociopathic boss? This is common stuff.

What do we know about each of those situations?

1. In Columbus, Gallant might not have been ready for the job. He also had a Doug Maclean roster so who knows if anything was even possible.

2. In Florida Gallant guides the team to a monster season and gets nominated for the Jack Adams. His management was a rather ham-fisted group that wanted to embrace analytics but didn't seem to understand the composition effect and bungled the roster. They shitcanned Gallant and the team took a nosedive. I don't know how any of that is supposed to reflect badly on Gallant.

3. Gallant wins the Jack Adams in Vegas and takes them to the Cup Finals. In year 3, they had some of the best analytics in the league and Gallant basically got PDO'd (horrendous luck).

From what we know it's very possible this is a great coach, even one who could start having very long tenures. But come to think of it, if Gallant would come here, guide the team to a monster season and get an Adams nomination, do fine the next year, and then be oddly fired early in season three, that doesn't sound like a bad deal for the Jackets.

 

[KJ Dangler]

ZSC Lions sign Rikard Grönborg to early contract extension

Maybe I misunderstood the usage of "out clause" in this article.

Confusing for sure.. maybe your right ?

 

[Viqsi]

You don't think it's possible for someone to be fired three times like that and it not be a result of incompetence? Have you ever had a short-sighted boss? Or worse, an incompetent or sociopathic boss? This is common stuff.

What do we know about each of those situations?

1. In Columbus, Gallant might not have been ready for the job. He also had a Doug Maclean roster so who knows if anything was even possible.

2. In Florida Gallant guides the team to a monster season and gets nominated for the Jack Adams. His management was a rather ham-fisted group that wanted to embrace analytics but didn't seem to understand the composition effect and bungled the roster. They shitcanned Gallant and the team took a nosedive. I don't know how any of that is supposed to reflect badly on Gallant.

3. Gallant wins the Jack Adams in Vegas and takes them to the Cup Finals. In year 3, they had some of the best analytics in the league and Gallant basically got PDO'd (horrendous luck).

I'm just saying that he's supposedly been good multiple times and yet let go very quickly by folks who have not shown that degree of impulsiveness elsewhere.

But come to think of it, if Gallant would come here, guide the team to a monster season and get an Adams nomination, do fine the next year, and then be oddly fired early in season three, that doesn't sound like a bad deal for the Jackets.

I think that would be disastrous. We've seen in the past what frequent coaching changes here does to our players.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

You don't think it's possible for someone to be fired three times like that and it not be a result of incompetence? Have you ever had a short-sighted boss? Or worse, an incompetent or sociopathic boss? This is common stuff.

To have had three sociopathic bosses? At some point, doesn't the obvious connection become the obvious one?

I'm not saying Gallant isn't a good coach. I do agree that I'm not keen to see him back in Columbus, though.

 

[Monstershockey]

You don't think it's possible for someone to be fired three times like that and it not be a result of incompetence? Have you ever had a short-sighted boss? Or worse, an incompetent or sociopathic boss? This is common stuff.

What do we know about each of those situations?

1. In Columbus, Gallant might not have been ready for the job. He also had a Doug Maclean roster so who knows if anything was even possible.

2. In Florida Gallant guides the team to a monster season and gets nominated for the Jack Adams. His management was a rather ham-fisted group that wanted to embrace analytics but didn't seem to understand the composition effect and bungled the roster. They shitcanned Gallant and the team took a nosedive. I don't know how any of that is supposed to reflect badly on Gallant.

3. Gallant wins the Jack Adams in Vegas and takes them to the Cup Finals. In year 3, they had some of the best analytics in the league and Gallant basically got PDO'd (horrendous luck).

From what we know it's very possible this is a great coach, even one who could start having very long tenures. But come to think of it, if Gallant would come here, guide the team to a monster season and get an Adams nomination, do fine the next year, and then be oddly fired early in season three, that doesn't sound like a bad deal for the Jackets.

The common denominator in all 3 firings is Gallant. Three different teams and same coach getting fired.

As far as analytics goes, someone mentioned it here in one of these threads, and I saw it when I was researching to see why this guy gets fired after 3 years, and I came across someone mentioning that Gallant is not a coach that uses analytics and that led to him losing the Vegas job. DeBoer apparently is a big analytic guy and that is what they wanted in Vegas. I didn't, and still don't think it was credible because it was just someone that was commenting on an article, but that would make more sense being fired for a difference of philosophy, than just being fired to change coaches.

I really don't care who they bring in. They will either get the job done, or they won't. People will still complain, say they hired the wrong guy, and basically be unhappy until they hire someone they like.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I really don't care who they bring in. They will either get the job done, or they won't. People will still complain, say they hired the wrong guy, and basically be unhappy until they hire someone they like.

I would not take this bet in a million years.

 

[EspenK]

To have had three sociopathic bosses? At some point, doesn't the obvious connection become the obvious one?

I only had 2...

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I only had 2...

Mmm-hmm.

 

[majormajor]

I'm just saying that he's supposedly been good multiple times and yet let go very quickly by folks who have not shown that degree of impulsiveness elsewhere.

That Florida regime and the current Vegas one are all noteworthy for impulsivity/impatience. It's exactly why I don't find the firing that telling.

That and it's not as compelling as it sounds that a coach was fired three times in year three. Since the average leaguewide coaching tenure is three years there is a significant chance that that same coach could go on to be a long tenured coach with team four.

 

[majormajor]

To have had three sociopathic bosses? At some point, doesn't the obvious connection become the obvious one?

- I didn't say that. Cmon now. There are many ways a boss can be short-sighted.

- Yeah, a lot more than three. You're not a statistician are you?

 

[majormajor]

The common denominator in all 3 firings is Gallant. Three different teams and same coach getting fired.

As far as analytics goes, someone mentioned it here in one of these threads, and I saw it when I was researching to see why this guy gets fired after 3 years, and I came across someone mentioning that Gallant is not a coach that uses analytics and that led to him losing the Vegas job. DeBoer apparently is a big analytic guy and that is what they wanted in Vegas. I didn't, and still don't think it was credible because it was just someone that was commenting on an article, but that would make more sense being fired for a difference of philosophy, than just being fired to change coaches.

I really don't care who they bring in. They will either get the job done, or they won't. People will still complain, say they hired the wrong guy, and basically be unhappy until they hire someone they like.

Try that first paragraph with other coaches. Hitchcock, Torts, etc... Our FO has to investigate this stuff and get past this lazy "common denominator" type of thinking. That's what you do when you have three minutes to hire a dishwasher.

As for the analytics stuff, Gallant reportedly uses them he's just not one of the few at the forefront. Nothing special either way.

 

[Monstershockey]

Try that first paragraph with other coaches. Hitchcock, Torts, etc... Our FO has to investigate this stuff and get past this lazy "common denominator" type of thinking. That's what you do when you have three minutes to hire a dishwasher.

As for the analytics stuff, Gallant reportedly uses them he's just not one of the few at the forefront. Nothing special either way.

Well, the other two coaches you mentioned consistantly didn't do 3 and outs with the teams they coached. Gallant did it 3 times. That is a pattern. Nothing says Gallant will do more than 3 years at the next place he coaches. If that is what Columbus wants in a coach, then they should hire him. Maybe they will get lucky. But if they need to do a rebuild, the chances are strong that Gallant won't see it through.