Post-Game Talk: Toronto Matthews Leafs lose again.

[Drytoast]

I am not sure how Babcock can fix the defensive issues that are pretty evident every night unless some moves are made

Half of me thinks that because this is a contract year for Bozak and JVR, that they are thinking points! points! points! And as such are even less interested in defensive obligations and quick to leave the zone.

But that seems like that would be so very unprofessional and would do more to hurt their future contracts than help it.

It's a young team at it's core. Matthews and Nylander and Brown get it. Gardiner I don't think will EVER get it. He upsets me more than Polak.

 

[Drytoast]

Sure they do, Nylander gets it the worst because he always has the puck, but he's slippery enough to escape.

It's a nice thought, but nobody cares about a fighter at this point. Most teams aren't dressing one and it's easy enough to turtle or just hold on if you really need to.

Well we can agree to disagree, but I don't think it's a coincidence that those three have been INCREDIBLY HEALTHY compared to most other team's stars...

 

[Drytoast]

well he doesn't actually fight all that much but he should have gotten an instigator against LA when he fought the guy who Marner ran into at the blueline

Ok so this instigator complaint is really a non issue.

What we do know for sure is that Nylander Matthews and Marner have been incredibly healthy...

 

[ACC1224]

did you actually watch the game or only check the boxscore?

If you feel that this was a close game that was only a Josh Leivo appearance away from a Leaf win, have at it.
I'll stay in the real world with everyone else.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Ok so this instigator complaint is really a non issue.

What we do know for sure is that Nylander Matthews and Marner have been incredibly healthy...

you're right. There's literally no reason they could play hockey and be healthy if not for Matt Martin waiting to potentially fight someone who hurts them

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

If you feel that this was a close game that was only a Josh Leivo appearance away from a Leaf win, have at it.
I'll stay in the real world with everyone else.

it was a 1 goal game. Not sure why you think shots on goal means the game was somehow out of reach for the Leafs

 

[Drytoast]

you're right. There's literally no reason they could play hockey and be healthy if not for Matt Martin waiting to potentially fight someone who hurts them

Josh Leivo is not going to help this team play defense. And Mat Martin being in the line up to help police our big three isn't the problem.

 

[Drytoast]

it was a 1 goal game. Not sure why you think shots on goal means the game was somehow out of reach for the Leafs

We had 2 shots in the second and really no sustained pressure since halfway through the first...

That was a 1 goal game because Freddy played great.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Josh Leivo is not going to help this team play defense. And Mat Martin being in the line up to help police our big three isn't the problem.

yeah it is if he can't play hockey as well as Leivo. Especially since policing in hockey isn't really a thing. Explain why nobody took liberties on our big 3 while Martin was out of the lineup, and why Gudas didn't stop Leo Komarov from hurting Gostisbehere if it is

 

[Nithoniniel]

You like them being injury free? Partially thank Martin for that.

This is one of these things that never goes away. Despite a whole NHL history where teams with enforcers don't have less injuries and cheapshots against than teams without, they're still supposedly a deterrent.

Kind of like how it didn't matter that Phaneuf had a perfectly normal missed shot percentage, he was still the guy who couldn't hit the net.

I'm sure Martin makes those guys feel like there will be consequences if something is done to them, but he doesn't work as a deterrent. He might work as someone who makes them feel more loose and safe though, that's hard to quantify.

 

[Drytoast]

This is one of these things that never goes away. Despite a whole NHL history where teams with enforcers don't have less injuries and cheapshots against than teams without, they're still supposedly a deterrent.

Kind of like how it didn't matter that Phaneuf had a perfectly normal missed shot percentage, he was still the guy who couldn't hit the net.

I'm sure Martin makes those guys feel like there will be consequences if something is done to them, but he doesn't work as a deterrent. He might work as someone who makes them feel more loose and safe though, that's hard to quantify.

Every hockey player new and old that's talked about the subject has a different opinion than you.

Both Bab's and Lou have invested in that opinion.

I'm siding with all of them. But you are free to disagree.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Every hockey player new and old that's talked about the subject has a different opinion than you.

Both Bab's and Lou have invested in that opinion.

I'm siding with all of them. But you are free to disagree.

I'd rather side with objective reality and data and evidence over anyone's opinion

 

[Drytoast]

yeah it is if he can't play hockey as well as Leivo. Especially since policing in hockey isn't really a thing. Explain why nobody took liberties on our big 3 while Martin was out of the lineup, and why Gudas didn't stop Leo Komarov from hurting Gostisbehere if it is

Explain why we still lost with Josh Leivo in the line up.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Explain why we still lost with Josh Leivo in the line up.

because Andersen had a weak game
we actually outplayed them pretty handily, which is all you can ask for from your team

 

[Nithoniniel]

Every hockey player new and old that's talked about the subject has a different opinion than you.

Both Bab's and Lou have invested in that opinion.

I'm siding with all of them. But you are free to disagree.

Well what I said is a fact. Disagreeing with it is useless.

I'm sure people feel like it helps. Of course they appreciate it. Hey, if I had someone who followed me around and fought anyone who slighted me, I'd sure appreciate it as well. Someone is taking a beating for you, it's natural to appreciate the gesture. Doesn't mean it's necessary. And if people still slighted me just as much, it didn't help stop it.

 

[rent free]

because Andersen had a weak game
we actually outplayed them pretty handily, which is all you can ask for from your team

really? i thought they outplayed us.

 

[Drytoast]

I'd rather side with objective reality and data and evidence over anyone's opinion

That's great! You are totally free to do that.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

really? i thought they outplayed us.

that's cool but you're wrong

 

[Drytoast]

really? i thought they outplayed us.

They did out play us...badly. But we apparently were just a Josh Leivo away from not being outplayed...

 

[rent free]

that's cool but you're wrong

no ur wrong. they outplayed us.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

no ur wrong. they outplayed us.

at 5 on 5
SCF: 58% to 42%
HDSCF: 68% to 32%
but I'm sure your feeling that we were outplayed has more bearing than what actually happened in the game

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

They did out play us...badly. But we apparently were just a Josh Leivo away from not being outplayed...

did you forget we were talking about the Flyers game?

 

[Kiwi]

Josh Leivo is not going to help this team play defense. And Mat Martin being in the line up to help police our big three isn't the problem.

Leivo keeps possession of the puck and out shoots the opposition when he is on the ice, that's a solid way of stopping the other team scoring

It's an issue when Martin plays badly, the 4th line got filled in and out shot 13-0 that's a problem if you want to win games

 

[MJ65]

Half of me thinks that because this is a contract year for Bozak and JVR, that they are thinking points! points! points! And as such are even less interested in defensive obligations and quick to leave the zone.

But that seems like that would be so very unprofessional and would do more to hurt their future contracts than help it.

It's a young team at it's core. Matthews and Nylander and Brown get it. Gardiner I don't think will EVER get it. He upsets me more than Polak.

Unfortunately they are not even generating any offense (specially in last few games). I understand that JVR has 9 points in his 11 games but the way he is playing his offense is going to decline, you can only get points if you keep the puck in offensive zone and not being in defensive zone all the time

 

[Daisy Jane]

This is one of these things that never goes away. Despite a whole NHL history where teams with enforcers don't have less injuries and cheapshots against than teams without, they're still supposedly a deterrent.

Kind of like how it didn't matter that Phaneuf had a perfectly normal missed shot percentage, he was still the guy who couldn't hit the net.

I'm sure Martin makes those guys feel like there will be consequences if something is done to them, but he doesn't work as a deterrent. He might work as someone who makes them feel more loose and safe though, that's hard to quantify.

someone had the theory last year - i wish i knew who it was so i can give them proper credit - that Martin outside of being a pet of Babcock's - is one of those... "we're not going to show you what a cruel hard world the NHL is, guys" players for the younger players. I mean fundamentally they know and everything - but if it means keeping good ole buddy Marty on the team even though theoretically he should be benched or Robdias Island'ed or something they keep him around for a few things

it was a unique theory, and one that made a touch of sense.