Sportsnet: Toronto interested in Bernier.

[Mess]

Jeff Blair made a good point this morning in that teams like to float Toronto's name to generate media buzz and drive up the asking prices for players on the trading block. Take everything you hear concerning the Leafs with a huge grain of salt.

However while that might perhaps be true in principle, it also doesn't generate trades as its the actual GMs and not the rumours that consummate NHL transactions.

Someone can claim Toronto is interested in Bernier, all they want, but if Nonis has not spoken to LA about him then it really doesn't have much traction other than internet discussion board traffic in the category of rumours.

 

[legendinblue]

How did you connect those dots ?

There is no rumour suggesting Reimer is on his way out, only that Bernier is on his way in.

How can one not connect the dots here? Are we giving up a first for a goalie that has no desire to be a backup ever again? Forget the 1a 1b crap, it rarely works out. I see absolutely no reason to pay a hefty price for a player we do NOT need. Finally Reimer puts together a solid season and we're giving him a vote of confidence by bringing in Bernier? Just no. I'd much rather trade away our 1st for a player who can actually improve our roster.

Bernier in=Reimer out eventually. Unless Bernier ***** the bed. They clearly see him as a starter. Otherwise there's no rationale for this trade.

 

[egd27]

I'd trade for Bernier, take a flyer on Thomas, Theodore, or Ellis as a vet backup, and trade Reimer for a 1st+ or top end prospect + pick package.

I would imagine the return on Reimer would be better than the cost to acquire Bernier.
So, in essence we can get a goalie who can catch a puck, and control his rebounds, and make a profit.

Young, and unproven, yes, but, has a similar history as Cam Ward, and can be worth the gamble.

Then why would another team pay more for Reimer if Bernier would cost less and (according to you) is the better goalie?

 

[legendinblue]

Bernier will be a Philadelphia Flyer, there is no point in discussing him coming to the Leafs. Dean Lombardi loves Philly players, just look at his acquisitions of Mike Richards and Jeff Carter.

Paul Holmgren could potentially give up Matt Read for Bernier for all we know, as Philly would be looking hard for a goaltender after buying out Bryzgalov.

I definitely can see Philly overpaying and coming to regret it in a couple of years.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Bernier's easily worth a first, but not to us right now based on the way Reimer has played. If we're spending our first on something, which I'm thoroughly against, it could be put to much better use.

 

[Mess]

How can one not connect the dots here? Are we giving up a first for a goalie that has no desire to be a backup ever again? Forget the 1a 1b crap, it rarely works out. I see absolutely no reason to pay a hefty price for a player we do NOT need. Finally Reimer puts together a solid season and we're giving him a vote of confidence by bringing in Bernier? Just no. I'd much rather trade away our 1st for a player who can actually improve our roster.

Bernier in=Reimer out eventually. Unless Bernier ***** the bed. They clearly see him as a starter. Otherwise there's no rationale for this trade.

Bernier has less NHL experience than Reimer does at present. Toronto is trying to increase its experience in net not decrease it.

While he may have a higher eventual upside then Reimer, I don't believe the plan is instead of but rather addition to and see how this plays out.

There is also no real cap concern here with Reimer making $1.8 mil and Bernier a RFA now coming off a $1.25 mil deal. Even if you double Bernier salary to $2.5 mil by re-signing him you still have less than $5 mil invested in the goal position overall.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Apparently according to the Sportsnet panel it would cost us our 1st round pick 21st overall to acquire him.

Couldn't they offer-sheet him if the demands from LA are too high?

 

[Mess]

Bernier's easily worth a first, but not to us right now based on the way Reimer has played. If we're spending our first on something, which I'm thoroughly against, it could be put to much better use.

I'd rather Leafs use former 1sts ie. Tlyer Biggs and Stuart Percy etc as bait than this years 1st rounder.

Or even parlay Frattin or Colborne etc towards Bernier.

Toronto is in Bo Horvat territory at #21 and the 2-way center would be a nice addition to Leafs prospect pool.

 

[legendinblue]

Bernier has less NHL experience than Reimer does at present. Toronto is trying to increase its experience in net not decrease it.

While he may have a higher eventual upside then Reimer, I don't believe the plan is instead of but rather addition to and see how this plays out.

There is also no real cap concern here with Reimer making $1.8 mil and Bernier a RFA now coming off a $1.25 mil deal. Even if you double Bernier salary to $2.5 mil by re-signing him you still have less than $5 mil invested in the goal position overall.

All it takes to increase the experience is to sign a veteran goalie which are plentiful on the market.

I'm very much opposed to giving up a significant asset for Bernier, unless...

...you believe we could flip one of Bernier/Reimer for a higher price we pay to get Bernier

...or you believe it's possible to carry two capable starters (I'll count Bernier as starter for now) on the team for the foreseeable future which is fine I suppose until one of them requests a trade (wonder how long would it take).

 

[colchar]

Question: Is this a good idea?

Having another good young goalie could work well. Then again, so could having a veteran backup to help mentor Reimer. I guess it just depends whether they want competition or mentoring.

Do we want a goalie controversy?

I hate that it would cause a goalie controversy when other teams have successfully played with two goalies of roughly equivalent ability.

Does Reimer deserve a chance to be the de facto #1, or anything goes?

I think he has definitely earned it but if having another young goalie like Bernier improves the team, and they don't pay too much for him, then I am all for improving the team.

 

[ACC1224]

Apparently according to the Sportsnet panel it would cost us our 1st round pick 21st overall to acquire him.

I'd be fine with that although my preference would be Frattin instead.

 

[TieClark]

I voted no because of the expected price he would cost. If we could get him for cheap, he's an upgrade over Scrivens and has upside that would push Reimer for sure so.

 

[Mess]

All it takes to increase the experience is to sign a veteran goalie which are plentiful on the market.

I'm very much opposed to giving up a significant asset for Bernier, unless...

...you believe we could flip one of Bernier/Reimer for a higher price we pay to get Bernier

...or you believe it's possible to carry two capable starters (I'll count Bernier as starter for now) on the team for the foreseeable future which is fine I suppose until one of them requests a trade (wonder how long would it take).

For the foreseeable near future both youngsters would be too busy trying to win the #1 job in Toronto to be concerned about asking for a trade.

If there is any truth to this Bernier rumour than that suggest to me that Scrivens, Rynnas, Owuya etc and leafs goalie prospect pool doesn't hold a lot of value, based on acquiring a top young goalie in trade.

Instead of Reimer and an aging vet backup, the plan would be Reimer/Bernier combo for the present and then see where the future takes them.

 

[legendinblue]

For the foreseeable near future both youngsters would be too busy trying to win the #1 job in Toronto to be concerned about asking for a trade.

If there is any truth to this Bernier rumour than that suggest to me that Scrivens, Rynnas, Owuya etc and leafs goalie prospect pool doesn't hold a lot of value, based on acquiring a top young goalie in trade.

Instead of Reimer and an aging vet backup, the plan would be Reimer/Bernier combo for the present and then see where the future takes them.

This we can agree on.

 

[Mess]

This we can agree on.

One of Reimer or Bernier may eventually be traded down the road dependent of the outcome of the battle results here.

However I just don't think a Reimer trade occurs before that test is actually tried and tested and the results analyzed.

I just believe you're jumping the gun a little here by suggesting its an either or scenario upon Bernier potential arrival from the start.

 

[mydnyte]

Then why would another team pay more for Reimer if Bernier would cost less and (according to you) is the better goalie?

ever heard the expression good from far, far from good?

everyone knows Reimer's issues, but, he took us to game 7 this year, and that looks good on a GM when you acquire a 'starting' goalie

 

[Riellyfan04]

kyper is full of shyt... Why in the hell would Toronto go after bernier when Riemer played so well?? Unless Nonis has a bigger deal in hand to deal Riemer?? never know.

 

[mydnyte]

I think this is the very reason why Bernier is being explored in fact.

The main difference in the Boston series was Rask verses Reimer when it came to the catching hand and rebound control.

Its also no secret that high glove is a known weakness of Reimer as the announcers constantly reference opponents shots targeting that area.

Reimer is a big goalie so he does cover the net well, but blocking the first shot and rebound control back into traffic is something that does occur, particularly if combined with not catching pucks cleanly.

exactly this... and his save % is higher as a result of the rebounds, and dropped pucks that he causes himself. At least he keeps them out for the most-part, but, too many get away from him and end up behind him that should have never even been available for a 2nd and 3rd chance.

 

[Mess]

Jonathan Bernier rap sheet.

2012-13 .. 14 games 9-3-1 record, 1.87 GAA & .922 sv%.

That places him #2 overall in GAA and #10 overall in sv% with goalie playing more than a dozen games.

& drafted 6 draft spots after Phil Kessel in the 2006 entry draft.

 

[mydnyte]

kyper is full of shyt... Why in the hell would Toronto go after bernier when Riemer played so well?? Unless Nonis has a bigger deal in hand to deal Riemer?? never know.

this is my hope, and also hope it can be Calgary who have picks #6, 22, and 28.

would they take Reimer, and Colborne for #6? ...would we make that deal (presuming we get Bernier)?

or Reimer for 22, & 28 or 22 & 36 (even if we had to add an Ashton'esque player)

 

[Grant]

Was Ottawa really interested in keeping Bishop when they already had Anderson + Lehner? Didn't stop them from trading a 2nd for him.

I'd be interested in Bernier at the right price because I think in the future, within a year or acquiring him, we could trade him for more than we paid. If the price for Bernier is Frattin I'm all over that. If it's more I would have to think about it.

 

[p.l.f.]

Believe in Scrivens for backup, he will improve !

And we wouldn't have made the playoffs or even won a game in them without Reimer
I'd like to see what Rask could do facing 40 shots a night

 

[Mess]

exactly this... and his save % is higher as a result of the rebounds, and dropped pucks that he causes himself. At least he keeps them out for the most-part, but, too many get away from him and end up behind him that should have never even been available for a 2nd and 3rd chance.

The series winning goal was a result of a puck dropping at Reimer's feet glove hand side, that turned into a mad rebound scramble and Bergeron's eventual OT winner. Catching that puck cleanly and freezing the play could have resulted in a different series outcome alone.

If internet poster(s) can recognize Reimer's rebound control, puck catching and stick-handling issues, than I'm fairly certain Leafs management is 10 steps ahead and fully aware of Reimer's strengths and weaknesses, and thus exploring all options available including Bernier.

I'm a big Reimer fan, but I see no problem adding Bernier if the price is right and makes sense.

 

[mydnyte]

Believe in Scrivens for backup, he will improve !

And we wouldn't have made the playoffs or even won a game in them without Reimer
I'd like to see what Rask could do facing 40 shots a night

I'd like to see what Rask could do without Chara!!

 

[Mess]

Believe in Scrivens for backup, he will improve !

And we wouldn't have made the playoffs or even won a game in them without Reimer
I'd like to see what Rask could do facing 40 shots a night

In 2012-13 season

Rask ..... 980 shots against in 36 games = 27.2 shots per game.

Reimer .. 995 shots against in 33 games = 30.2 shots per game.

Reimer only faced 15 more shots overall and\or 3 extra shots per game in the 2012-13 regular season.