OT: Toronto Blue Jays/MLB Talk

[Mazatt]

I am starting to think it's time to consider Bo at 2B or 3B, his number of errors is hurting this team, he was tied for first in the AL before Sunday's game, and at the halfway marker had the same number as Semien did the entire 2019 season. How much longer can we leave him there actively hurting the team defensively when we have a significantly better defensive option playing immediately to his left?

I think the biggest question with putting Bo to 2nd is where the majority of his errors come from. They mostly come from bobbling the ball and trying to make a play much bigger than possible (i.e. last night). I'm not entirely sure moving him to shortstop fixes that long-term.

Conversely that makes the question turn to: should the Jays sacrifice the long-term potential of Bichette as a SS by giving a guy on a 1 year prove it deal that position, or do they feel the team is better served in the long run keeping Bichette and shortstop and having a long-term solution there.

 

[Lunatik]

I think the biggest question with putting Bo to 2nd is where the majority of his errors come from. They mostly come from bobbling the ball and trying to make a play much bigger than possible (i.e. last night). I'm not entirely sure moving him to shortstop fixes that long-term.

Conversely that makes the question turn to: should the Jays sacrifice the long-term potential of Bichette as a SS by giving a guy on a 1 year prove it deal that position, or do they feel the team is better served in the long run keeping Bichette and shortstop and having a long-term solution there.

My thinking is generally there is a lighter load at 2nd or 3rd, a year of lower pressure position might be good for him, or half a year.

 

[Volica]

I think the biggest question with putting Bo to 2nd is where the majority of his errors come from. They mostly come from bobbling the ball and trying to make a play much bigger than possible (i.e. last night). I'm not entirely sure moving him to shortstop fixes that long-term.

Conversely that makes the question turn to: should the Jays sacrifice the long-term potential of Bichette as a SS by giving a guy on a 1 year prove it deal that position, or do they feel the team is better served in the long run keeping Bichette and shortstop and having a long-term solution there.

Moving a guy away from short because of youthful errors is the solution of an old man with limited knowledge.
Derek Jeter had 20+ error seasons in the first 5-6 years of his MLB career. Cal Ripken Jr throughout his 20's average an error every 8 games. If you can get the batting Bo provides in the 6 hole, you can live with a few errors a season as he matures.

The guy's got a slash line of .290/.340/.479 this season. Which would put him among the top 5 hitting shortstops in the MLB, he's probably (I haven't looked) only behind Correa and Bogaerts in the AL in terms of his offensive production at Short, and he's the youngest of the three of them by a few years. Having someone who can produce like that in 6 is incredible difficult to find. If the belief Semien is the better shortstop, and they extend him for 4+ years, then sure. But as it stands, Semien might only be in town a single season and moving Bo around would just lose a half season of development from a positional player.

 

[Deen]

Yeah, after watching I put it on the bats and defense. Teo cost us a run by misplaying that fly ball and then not rushing and Bo's throwing error in the 9th certainly didn't help with it being the first hitter Dolis faced.

I am starting to think it's time to consider Bo at 2B or 3B, his number of errors is hurting this team, he was tied for first in the AL before Sunday's game, and at the halfway marker had the same number as Semien did the entire 2019 season. How much longer can we leave him there actively hurting the team defensively when we have a significantly better defensive option playing immediately to his left?

Growing pains. Pressure makes diamonds and Bo is a guy that will take those misplays to heart from what I have seen about him. Just have to let him learn.

 

[Anglesmith]

Wasn't Semien himself an absolute defensive trainwreck as a rookie? I remember the A's nucleus coming up and being the worst defensive team in the league a few seasons ago.

 

[Lunatik]

Wasn't Semien himself an absolute defensive trainwreck as a rookie? I remember the A's nucleus coming up and being the worst defensive team in the league a few seasons ago.

Sure but the A's also weren't contenders at the time either, so Semien wasn't actively hurting their playoff chances.

 

[Lunatik]

Growing pains. Pressure makes diamonds and Bo is a guy that will take those misplays to heart from what I have seen about him. Just have to let him learn.

Pressure also causes earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

 

[Deen]

Pressure also causes earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Sorry to break it to you, but this is a learning season. We aren't true contenders with our pitching. On the cusp though.

 

[Lunatik]

Sorry to break it to you, but this is a learning season. We aren't true contenders with our pitching. On the cusp though.

I don't care what you think, you might think you know everything, but no one else does.

 

[Deen]

I don't care what you think, you might think you know everything, but no one else does.

 

[Volica]

Sorry to break it to you, but this is a learning season. We aren't true contenders with our pitching. On the cusp though.

This is a wildcard level team.
If they can sneak in they can probably get a round out of a team like Boston who also doesn't have an exceptional pitching staff.

Once they get into the weeds with teams like CWS, they'll be outclassed when they're going to be doing a three man rotation of guys like Lynn, Giolito and Keuchel. It gets even worse when you have to see who the NL is bringing to the table.

Your old head in the lineup is George Springer, who's 31 years old. You have all kinds of years ahead of you to compete. My hope is that they don't go crazy and start selling off the farm just to make a run at a non-controlled SP.

 

[CraigsList]

This is a wildcard level team.
If they can sneak in they can probably get a round out of a team like Boston who also doesn't have an exceptional pitching staff.

Once they get into the weeds with teams like CWS, they'll be outclassed when they're going to be doing a three man rotation of guys like Lynn, Giolito and Keuchel. It gets even worse when you have to see who the NL is bringing to the table.

Your old head in the lineup is George Springer, who's 31 years old. You have all kinds of years ahead of you to compete. My hope is that they don't go crazy and start selling off the farm just to make a run at a non-controlled SP.

I agree with this, we should not be selling the farm for anyone yet. There are too many holes in this roster still to be making such trades. We are definitely on the cusp of making great strides as soon as next season. My target year was 2023, but our batting has really made this team dangerous in that regard. We just lack a game breaking RH SP. Also need better relievers not named Romano.

Are there even any good starting pitcher free agents next season, preferably a righty?

 

[Volica]

I agree with this, we should not be selling the farm for anyone yet. There are too many holes in this roster still to be making such trades. We are definitely on the cusp of making great strides as soon as next season. My target year was 2023, but our batting has really made this team dangerous in that regard. We just lack a game breaking RH SP. Also need better relievers not named Romano.

Are there even any good starting pitcher free agents next season, preferably a righty?

Bunch of guys of that old guard are available this offseason.
The Greinke's, Verlander's, Scherzer's and Kluber's of the world.

I'm in Toronto, I'm seeing if Thor makes it to FA; bringing him back to the organization that drafted him Then guys like Chris Archer as a middle guy. Two old Jays in Sanchez and Stroman are also available. Dunno, have to see if there's a SP that maybe shakes loose in trade availability. I'm not against trading prospects, but it has to be for control.

 

[Lunatik]

I agree with this, we should not be selling the farm for anyone yet. There are too many holes in this roster still to be making such trades. We are definitely on the cusp of making great strides as soon as next season. My target year was 2023, but our batting has really made this team dangerous in that regard. We just lack a game breaking RH SP. Also need better relievers not named Romano.

Are there even any good starting pitcher free agents next season, preferably a righty?

Too many holes is pretty hyperbolic, the holes are 1-2 BP arms and slightly better starting pitching. We also have Borucki and Merryweather returning relatively soon. Borucki pushing Saucedo out and Merryweather pushing Castro back to AAA, would be big upgrades and then if we add an additional arm and push Kay/Dolis/Thornton down, that would be massive. If we added a SP and pushed Monoah to AAA or Stripling to the BP, that would be a luxury move. Defense also needs to improve, but that has to be through player growth.

People are underrating how good this team is, we had the most difficult sked in the first half, regularly had a bullpen decimated by injures and yet we are still right there, just a few games back of a playoff spot w/ the 3rd best run differential in the league. Oh and we haven't actually played a home game yet.

Yeah a series against Houston or Chicago would be tough, but let's not pretend it wouldn't be tough for them too and it certainly would be far from a surprise if we won.

When talking trade there is far more talk about adding guys under team control (even Shapiro stated this) for at least an additional year, like Marquez and Berrios as SPs, and Rodriguez as RPs, than anyone who is an outright free agent this winter. So this thought we are going to sell the farm for a few months of someone doesn't make much sense.

 

[Volica]

 

[Volica]

Jays make another trade to get some additional, much needed arms.
Rowdy lost his spot on the roster, and wasn't winning it back for anytime soon.

 

[Anglesmith]

Tellez traded for two arms, one of which provides immediate help for the bullpen.

 

[Lunatik]

TRADE ALERT

 

[Lunatik]

Tellez traded for two arms, one of which provides immediate help for the bullpen.

I was just posting this, Trevor Richards who went to Milwaukee from Tampa in the Willy Adames deal is the immediate arm, second arm is Bowden Francis

 

[Lunatik]

In 21 appearances this season Trevor Richards has thrown 31.2 innings, has a 3.69 ERA, a 112 ERA+, a 1.14 WHIP, opponents are hitting .207 against him, his K:BB line is 41:12. He comes with 3 years of team control. He is a flyball pitcher, so I'm not sure how well that will play with Sahlen Field and Rogers centre. Looks like he throws low-mid 90s, but throws his changeup about 1/3 of the time. He also throws a cutter thats a little harder than his change and a slider that's a little softer than it.

 

[Lunatik]

I am looking at his splits now, he is a reverse splits guy, as he is dominant against lefthanded bats but has struggled against right. He also has yet to allow an inherited runner to score

 

[Lunatik]

The other arm is Bowden Francis, a 25yo starter that has split the year between AA and AAA. In 7 games at AAA Nashville, Francis is 4-2 with a WHIP of just 0.983 and an ERA 3.49.

 

[Lunatik]

I just noticed, Richards still has a minor league option so he can be sent down if he struggles or we add better arms to the BP. Tampa also optioned Rogers earlier in the year, so if I understand this correctly, we can option him without using another option this year; unless being traded changes that.

 

[Villella McMeans]

Too many holes is pretty hyperbolic, the holes are 1-2 BP arms and slightly better starting pitching. We also have Borucki and Merryweather returning relatively soon. Borucki pushing Saucedo out and Merryweather pushing Castro back to AAA, would be big upgrades and then if we add an additional arm and push Kay/Dolis/Thornton down, that would be massive. If we added a SP and pushed Monoah to AAA or Stripling to the BP, that would be a luxury move. Defense also needs to improve, but that has to be through player growth.

People are underrating how good this team is, we had the most difficult sked in the first half, regularly had a bullpen decimated by injures and yet we are still right there, just a few games back of a playoff spot w/ the 3rd best run differential in the league. Oh and we haven't actually played a home game yet.

Yeah a series against Houston or Chicago would be tough, but let's not pretend it wouldn't be tough for them too and it certainly would be far from a surprise if we won.

When talking trade there is far more talk about adding guys under team control (even Shapiro stated this) for at least an additional year, like Marquez and Berrios as SPs, and Rodriguez as RPs, than anyone who is an outright free agent this winter. So this thought we are going to sell the farm for a few months of someone doesn't make much sense.

I agree with this, if Toronto can gain ground during this easy part of schedule they can make playoffs and go far. I am totally optimistic right now with Toronto.

 

[Club]

Heard Arash say that the Jays have interest in Kimbrel (like any other team) and Rodriguez.