TSN: Toronto’s salary cap balancing act, through the eyes of McDavid, Toews and Tavares

[jasonleaffan]

Duck lips game even stronger.

You should probably look closer

 

[LeafsNation75]

You think star players aren't going to ask for NTC or NMC in their contracts?

What if the team wants to trade them even with a NTC or a NMC? It happened when the Leafs wanted to trade Kessel despite him having a NTC.

 

[Nylanderthal]

My bad, I remember seeing them together in the Boston series. The point still stands though in regards to diminishing depth.

No you didn’t, they were on PP1 that’s it. Jvr can’t handle the type of minutes that babcock has assigned to Kadri the last few seasons.

 

[rent free]

You think star players aren't going to ask for NTC or NMC in their contracts?

They will but Tampa's players get nmc and ntc so that's a moot point.

 

[FerrisRox]

They will but Tampa's players get nmc and ntc so that's a moot point.

It's not a moot point, it is the point. He was saying what if those players that signed in Tampa and don't have to pay income tax get traded and I'm saying that can't happen because someone like Stamkos or Kucherov have NMC's or in Kucherov's case and NMC that later turns into a modified NTC.

 

[rent free]

It's not a moot point, it is the point. He was saying what if those players that signed in Tampa and don't have to pay income tax get traded and I'm saying that can't happen because someone like Stamkos or Kucherov have NMC's or in Kucherov's case and NMC that later turns into a modified NTC.

Ok I thought you were referring to the Toronto players

 

[go4hockey]

My point was Yzerman showed you can still re-sign core players going forward to long term deals despite the salary cap.

Well I would say the tax rates in that state helped a ton. That’s something Toronto will not have to help them out.

 

[Tripod]

That maybe true, however at least in Toronto look at the marketing and endorsements Leafs players can also make.

Connor Brown doing national commercials for Souce for Sports is a good example.

How many other teams 3rd/4th liners get national commercials? Not many. Local ones, sure. But not national ones.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Pretty sure the players agents know about the rules just as much as who wrote the rules. This is not an advantage.

If you say so.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If you say so.

But seriously, do you think the Leafs have an advantage cause they have someone on their roster who help wright the CBA rules? How does this give them the edge in contract negotiations? Dubas can have a plan all he wants but Nylander, Marner, and Matthews are not signing team friendly deals. He will be lucky if one of them does.

 

[Spirit of 67]

But seriously, do you think the Leafs have an advantage cause they have someone on their roster who help wright the CBA rules? How does this give them the edge in contract negotiations? Dubas can have a plan all he wants but Nylander, Marner, and Matthews are not signing team friendly deals. He will be lucky if one of them does.

I dunno, 3 years ago had you ever heard of Robidas Island?
Had you ever heard about a player missing a season for failing a physical?
Had you ever heard of a player with an equipment allergy?

It's not so much what's in the cap rules. It's what isn't. If there's a loophole, Pridham knows about it.

 

[BLONG7]

I dunno, 3 years ago had you ever heard of Robidas Island?
Had you ever heard about a player missing a season for failing a physical?
Had you ever heard of a player with an equipment allergy?

It's not so much what's in the cap rules. It's what isn't. If there's a loophole, Pridham knows about it.

Look out when the next CBA hits, another lockout, and these types of circumvention will get shot down...the rules around this type of stuff, will get tougher...the owners of the have nots will make it happen.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Look out when the next CBA hits, another lockout, and these types of circumvention will get shot down...the rules around this type of stuff, will get tougher...the owners of the have nots will make it happen.

We'll see.

I could actually see the cap being a bit less restrictive. At least in terms of buying out guys who will never play again.
I have a hard time believing we'll go down the same road.
I could see the owners throwing the players a bone (Olympics maybe?) to not open the CBA early.
The owners will not want any part of the players getting a share of expansion money.
And after Seattle, there will be no expansion any time in the near future that I can tell.

 

[Jumptheshark]

it is interesting reading the debate between those who think the leafs will be in trouble and those who do not

I think the answer will be somewhat easy when it plays out

Patty M will get moved to montreal next off season and Zaitsev gets moved to a team that need to get to the cap floor

that frees up nearly 11 mil right there

 

[b in vancouver]

IF you include the FA's; their 6 best forwards were all top 10 picks.
Their best D's a top 5 pick.

You have to be bad, to be good. Not many teams can do what the Wings did for years finding stars in the third, fourth and fifth rounds.

Boston disagrees.

 

[b in vancouver]

While I agree with what you stating, the Tampa players recently (I'm talking about current roster only), most left some on the table, some more than others, to make everything work.

Teams such as Toronto has tons of money but are limited to the cap. It's up to the players to decide if they're willing to take a little less to keep the team strong and competitive for the foreseeable future.

With all that said, I believe they will get their core signed and won't have significant cap casualties that can't be filled in wth upcoming talent.

Bruins have done a good job of this also with Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak making less than $20M between them. We'll see what happens with McAvoy but it's harder for young players to demand more than the stars on the team.

It's important to try and save as much cash on those top end contracts as you can as that's where the savings is actually felt - as you start talking millions as compared to a few hundred thousand.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Well I would say the tax rates in that state helped a ton. That’s something Toronto will not have to help them out.

I'm not sure how the US tax rates affect players city to city or state to state. But players are incorporated so especially for long big time earners shelter a lot of money. Plus in Canada...primary residence is a of importance when paying personal tax.
I really think this income tax scenario is so silly. By posting personal income tax rates, every hockey fan fan is now a tax accountant. We never hear MLB/NBA players who play in Canada complains about tax rates because the personal tax rate is almost meaningless for athletes, especially those who can claim different primary residence.

 

[North Cole]

In principle it's great. But 500k isn't exactly a huge discount off of $13M. That's a 3.8% discount

It's a nice gesture, but it's also not something that really provides that much help in a franchise building around the star player either

In theory its immaterial, but in practice it does give the GM a little more leverage.

If McDavid can take 500k off, there is no reason other players can't take a little off either. 250k here and there adds up eventually. Could be a couple million if you can get 5-8 guys to take discounts.

We also saw Chiarelli wanted to spend less on Nurse, but that 500k was there in the event of an offer sheet. If the Oilers go into negotiations with 3.2m max instead of 3.75/4m... not that Nurse would ever sign one, but it helps.

The issue isn't saving 500k on McDavid and whether it's important or not. Any amount saved can be beneficial, the problem is Chiarelli spends it on guys like Russell et al. I like Russell, but setting a precedent of asking stars to take slightly less and then slightly overpaying depth guys will eventually run out of favour with the stars. It's not McDavids job to redistribute wealth...

If the Oilers do sweet f*** all (in 8 years) and McDavid asks for max on his next contract, or 1m more than hes worth because he took a discount last time, I wouldnt hold it against him at all. Some people will though.

Let's also not forget there was a vocal group of people saying his current contract wasnt even a discount and it was a joke...

 

[North Cole]

Well I would say the tax rates in that state helped a ton. That’s something Toronto will not have to help them out.

Toronto has the benefit of infinite amounts of money that Tampa doesnt have. So they could theoretically just keep offering signing bonus contracts that are lockout proof.

Each team has pros and cons

 

[go4hockey]

Toronto has the benefit of infinite amounts of money that Tampa doesnt have. So they could theoretically just keep offering signing bonus contracts that are lockout proof.

Each team has pros and cons

Your huge money is not as important now with the cap in place. They can offer whatever they want but it take two sides to get the contract signed. And nothing you posted had anything to do with the tax difference.

 

[North Cole]

Your huge money is not as important now with the cap in place. They can offer whatever they want but it take two sides to get the contract signed. And nothing you posted had anything to do with the tax difference.

Okay! Tampa can try to sell lower tax rates to their players. Takes two sides to get the contract signed, so it doesnt matter. That was a quick debate

It's not supposed to have anything to do with the tax difference. It's a counter benefit to the tax benefit.

 

[supsens]

it is interesting reading the debate between those who think the leafs will be in trouble and those who do not

I think the answer will be somewhat easy when it plays out

Patty M will get moved to montreal next off season and Zaitsev gets moved to a team that need to get to the cap floor

that frees up nearly 11 mil right there

Yes a guy with a NMC with hopes of a cup will ask to go to montreal.

 

[HugginThePost]

Dont get me wrong, I understand what they are saying. But anyone else find it ridiculous that you've got players griping about having a short window to make money for the rest of your life or about having to earn money to take care of their families. These guys (making $10M+) all are earning more in one year that about 99% of north americans will earn over their entire careers.

I think I would rather just hear them acknowledge the fact that everyone wants to earn money in line with how they view their value compared to their contemporaries. It's about being value and recognized (for a lot of people). I know as much as I want the company I work for to be prosperous and succesful, I would have a very hard time earning less than what I think I'm worth. I know it's not exactly the same thing as they are living out dreams and trying to win championships compared to me working a job that I didn't even know existed growing up, but you get my point

Agreed.....

"Short window".......?!?!

McDavid will have earned somewhere in the $150mm range by the time he is 30 with salary and endorsement deals.

Poor bastard, how will he ever make ends meet once he retires?

Add to that he will sign another 8 year contract when his current one is up. Probably in the $15mm/year range. So what, about $320mm for career earnings when he retires at 38?

Stick to being the best player in the world and stop with the stupid financial comments.

How can anyone be this oblivious to the "common man"?!?!

 

[JeremyTB]

The question isn't can Leafs keep those 4. Ofcourse they can. The question is would they be able to build around them with so little money afterwards? Those top 4 alone will be taking up around $40 million. And that doesn't even include Kadri,Marleau, Reilly and Andersen who take up another $20 million or so. So $60 Million on 8 players and still needing to fill 13 more spots. And if Johnson and Kapanen are as good as the leafs fans think they are, they are going to want to be paid in a couple of years.

 

[McVespa99]

Holy **** how much were the Oilers offering McDavid if McDavid asked them to come down

To be honest, if McDavid wanted to take less to ensure his team would be better, he should have taken a lot less than $12.5 million. He signed the contract after like 120 games of NHL experience and 5 more seasons to go until being an unrestricted FA. He could have easily justified "only" taking $10 million because of his RFA status.

He could also have pushed for the Max which was what, about 15. And they would have had to give it to him. So really he took 2.5 million per year less than he could have. That is 20 million he left on the table.