Confirmed with Link: [TOR-OTT] Phaneuf/Frattin/3 Others for Michalek/Greening/Cowen/Lindberg/2nd17

[Cor]

Is greening going to minors or leafs?

They weirdly haven't talked about that yet.

On one hand, we need players, so you'd think the Leafs.

However he's currently in the AHL, and no call up has been announced, so you'd think the Marlies.

 

[Stand Witness]

They weirdly haven't talked about that yet.

On one hand, we need players, so you'd think the Leafs.

However he's currently in the AHL, and no call up has been announced, so you'd think the Marlies.

I believe that someone earlier said that Greening was going to report to the Leafs. I think it was someone on the Sens side of the media.

 

[tooncesmeow]

The only owners I can think of that would be on Ballard's level of scum would be "Dollar" Bill Wirtz, Peter Pocklington, Jeffrey Loria and Donald Sterling.

Depsite what he thinks inside his own home (and he has every right to think what he wants) Sterling never let those feelings impact the team. The Clippers were never a budget team, never a team that were being held down, they were just in the shadow. Being a Clippers fan meant your team wasn't the Lakers, but they still tried to be good.

Keeping this on topic, I like this trade for the Leafs, mostly for the cap flexibility. Toronto wasn't going anywhere with a 7.5M 2nd pairing guy on the team, they needed to move that money. This was the price. Lindberg isn't bad, Cowen might be salvageable still but I think he' sjust another Harrington, Michalek is great and I'm excited for him, couldn't care less about Greening.

 

[WilliamNylander]

I think Greening probably has a better shot at cracking the Leafs lineup than the Marlies personally.

That team down there is stacked.

 

[thewave]

There are numerous verifiable sources that confirm Detroit (and Babcock specifically) were after Dion Phaneuf until last year's trade deadline and then again up until the draft but couldn't reconcile his salary within the Red Wings' cap structure.

So there's no "if" or contrived Red Wings/Maple Leafs managerial conspiracy here...Mike Babcock's admiration for Phaneuf is/was real.

Whether or not the rest of the league shared his enthusiasm is unknown. That means you don't know what another team was/would be willing to part with. You also don't know whether or not a low/late first selected by Burke's/Nonis' management group would turn out to be anything more significant than Biggs. You don't know what the 2017 Ottawa 2nd round pick will yield in the hands of Hunter/Dubas, or where Lindberg will end up.

We got a very good return on an asset that at times didn't look movable for one reason or another. And for the pieces moved to acquire Phaneuf, I think management exceeded expectations.

Anything else is fruitless, baseless speculation.

Babcock really liked him. You could tell at the presser. I liked his play where many here didn't. We lost a good hockey player that was paid to much in my opinion.

If Dion was a 2nd pairing D making 5m everyone here would love him. The people that say he sucks I don't have time for. Those are the people that are apparently smarter than Babcock and we know how that goes.

 

[crump]

I think Greening probably has a better shot at cracking the Leafs lineup than the Marlies personally.

That team down there is stacked.

 

[Crosscrease14]

Babcock really liked him. You could tell at the presser. I liked his play where many here didn't. We lost a good hockey player that was paid to much in my opinion.

If Dion was a 2nd pairing D making 5m everyone here would love him. The people that say he sucks I don't have time for. Those are the people that are apparently smarter than Babcock and we know how that goes.

IMHO I don't think Dion is worth 5 mil. He's a decent player but he doesn't do anything well anymore. His skating is now below league average, his shot seems to be gone. He can move the puck but not exceptionally well. He lays the big hit here and there but is not a force. Bit of everything, but not good at any one thing. He's not getting any better either. I think the leafs dodged a bullet. But all the best in Ottawa, hope he finds his niche.

 

[Menzinger]

If the talent is there at the deadline they'll move them. Also not an extremely deep draft year.

A team that's eligible for the lottery isn't going to move their 1st round, at least not without lottery protecting it. What the Pens did with eKessel trade will become the standard procedure - and even then I think they'll only be moved when a quality player is coming back.

 

[Menzinger]

But they're not, really. If a team makes the playoffs and picks 15 or later, they have less than a 1/5 chance of getting a top 6/top 4 player.

Drafting is the best way to get good players, but they're concentrated at the top of the draft and then scattered throughout. To get them, you either need a very high pick, or a lot of picks. A single late first isn't that important.

And thats the thing - I think GMs have slowly, yet finally realized that ta better off hoarding picks. Players that used to get a 2nd on deadline day will be going for 3rds.

And the big change though is due to the new lottery system. I doubt we'll ever see an non protected 1st traded ever again.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

So we basically traded phaneuf for a 2nd and Lindberg. Other 3 were included for salary cap purposes. Not a bad deal. Maybe we can get a 2nd for michalek next trade deadline in 2017. Making the deal for phaneuf for two 2nds and Lindberg. Better return than what we gave up for phaneuf when we acquired him from the flames.

 

[leafs in five]

So we basically traded phaneuf for a 2nd and Lindberg. Other 3 were included for salary cap purposes. Not a bad deal. Maybe we can get a 2nd for michalek next trade deadline in 2017. Making the deal for phaneuf for two 2nds and Lindberg. Better return than what we gave up for phaneuf when we acquired him from the flames.

this plus a flyer on Cowen. he's worth a shot, maybe one of Cowen/Marancin becomes a decent dman.

 

[080]

So we basically traded phaneuf for a 2nd and Lindberg. Other 3 were included for salary cap purposes. Not a bad deal. Maybe we can get a 2nd for michalek next trade deadline in 2017. Making the deal for phaneuf for two 2nds and Lindberg. Better return than what we gave up for phaneuf when we acquired him from the flames.

The 7 million in cap space is a big deal as well. And we get some players to fill-out our roster next season. We have hardly any players under contract next season: Bozak, Lupul, JVR, Michalek, Greening, Winnik, Komarov and RFAs Holland Kadri; and Gardiner, Cowen, Hunwick and RFAs Rielly, Marincin, Corrado.

I actually am pretty happy that we got Michalek in this deal. He's a good two-way guy with size and we might be able to flip him, as you said, for a 2nd or 3rd next year.

And hopefully one of Cowen, Corrado, or Marincin can turn into solid depth d-men. A lot of people seem to think a change of scenery (someone on Leafs Lunch was discussing it) might help Cowen, as he'd become a whipping boy in Ottawa.

 

[93LEAFS]

Depsite what he thinks inside his own home (and he has every right to think what he wants) Sterling never let those feelings impact the team. The Clippers were never a budget team, never a team that were being held down, they were just in the shadow. Being a Clippers fan meant your team wasn't the Lakers, but they still tried to be good.

Keeping this on topic, I like this trade for the Leafs, mostly for the cap flexibility. Toronto wasn't going anywhere with a 7.5M 2nd pairing guy on the team, they needed to move that money. This was the price. Lindberg isn't bad, Cowen might be salvageable still but I think he' sjust another Harrington, Michalek is great and I'm excited for him, couldn't care less about Greening.

I don't know how closely you follow the NBA but sterling was notoriously cheap, he broke that slightly after matching the Elton Brand offer sheet in 2004 and again after getting Paul.

 

[Ovate]

And thats the thing - I think GMs have slowly, yet finally realized that ta better off hoarding picks. Players that used to get a 2nd on deadline day will be going for 3rds.

And the big change though is due to the new lottery system. I doubt we'll ever see an non protected 1st traded ever again.

But the point is that there's not a very big difference between a late 2nd and a late 3rd in terms of success rate. Outside of the top 10 of a draft (and those picks aren't getting traded), it's very much a lottery.

 

[stavs*]

this plus a flyer on Cowen. he's worth a shot, maybe one of Cowen/Marancin becomes a decent dman.

marincin is awful, he's gone after this season is over. Bring up Percy instead.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Better return than what we gave up for phaneuf when we acquired him from the flames.

Maybe a little picky but not sure how we can say this. Hagman was a reasonable/decent player in his day, and Stajan has had a long career as a 3C on the Flames. Also, there was White as well that went to Calgary. That's three NHL (regulars) players.

We have Michalek from this trade whom is definitely a NHL regular, and a 2nd and prospect. It's too early to say anything about the 2nd and prospect. Greening is an AHL player, and Cowen is a #7 defender and healthy scratch press box guy.

It seems like we are little too prone to revisionist history and eager to spin this as a much better return.

 

[67Cup]

The return on the trade in order of importance: nothing new here, just a summary.
1. Getting out of the Phaneuf contract... By far the most important
2a. 2nd round pick in 2017
2b. Lindberg

Possible further benefits
3. Either a turnaround by Cowen or a flip to a team against the cap... 4th rounder?
4. Something for Michalek at the deadline 2017. Some contributions in the meantime if/when he gets healthy
5. Maybe Greening helps out the Marlies or even the Leafs bottom six as a stopgap while the prospects develop.

The worst case scenario is that the Leafs have no obligations beyond June, 2017.

And, in the meantime, the Leafs may "earn" an earlier 2016 pick.

Not bad.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Nikita Zaitsev is coming...

Zaitsev might become a ~#3 dman, or he might flame out and become AHL fodder. Really hard to tell. Id keep expectations low, and assume we need to address that area regardless of him signing here. If he does turn out as good as hoped, then all the better.

Agreed. Thinking that we will hit it out of the park with every pitch is a bit unrealistic. Would be far better to have more good looking defender prospects in the pipeline.

Theres quite a few NHL teams that have a good group of young forwards but are clamoring to solidify their blueline so they can stabilize their team and become much more competitive. Recent history should be enough proof of that you would think.

 

[613Leafer]

Between moving Kessel and Phaneuf, but the 2017-2018 season, we will have an extra 13.8M capspace to play with, and Kapanen, Lindberg, Harrington, Pens 1st, Sens 2nd, Devils 3rd, and whatever trade returns we can get for Spaling/Greening/Michalek/Cowen.

No single big "wow" piece, but when you really add it up, it looks decent considering the contracts we had to move. Ill take all of the above, rather than have 15M of our capspace tied up in ~31-33 year old Kessel and ~33-35 year old Phaneuf just as this team starts to (hopefully) emerge.

13.8M in capspace alone is a ton. Last offseason for example, that could have gotten us Green + Williams + 5M to put towards our own RFAs. There's plenty of potential for the capspace alone to outweigh what would have been the contibutions of Kessel/Phaneuf in a few years, let alone when you add the picks/prospects.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Maybe a little picky but not sure how we can say this. Hagman was a reasonable/decent player in his day, and Stajan has had a long career as a 3C on the Flames. Also, there was White as well that went to Calgary. That's three NHL (regulars) players.

We have Michalek from this trade whom is definitely a NHL regular, and a 2nd and prospect. It's too early to say anything about the 2nd and prospect. Greening is an AHL player, and Cowen is a #7 defender and healthy scratch press box guy.

It seems like we are little too prone to revisionist history and eager to spin this as a much better return.

We traded 3 UFA who were not in our plans plus Hagman for Phaneuf, Sjostrom and Aulie. It was the definition of good asset management especially given what was traded away would the very next year be eating up more cap space than Phaneuf.

 

[SprDaVE]

They weirdly haven't talked about that yet.

On one hand, we need players, so you'd think the Leafs.

However he's currently in the AHL, and no call up has been announced, so you'd think the Marlies.

The Sens AHL coach said he was going to the Leafs. He also said Lindberg (confirmed by Lamoriello) would be joining the Marlies.

 

[al secord]

I think Greening probably has a better shot at cracking the Leafs lineup than the Marlies personally.

That team down there is stacked.

Well done.

I laughed a little...then i cried a little because it's true.

 

[JEI]

Leafs need to have Greening at the NHL level so he can try to establish some type of trade value for him. The kicker for him will be next years salary being 3.2m - and he hasn't been an NHL player over the last two seasons.

 

[SprDaVE]

Leafs need to have Greening at the NHL level so he can try to establish some type of trade value for him. The kicker for him will be next years salary being 3.2m - and he hasn't been an NHL player over the last two seasons.

I think the Leafs will very likely buy him out if he doesn't show some form at the NHL level, which is likely. His cap hit will be 500k year 1 and 1M year 2 after a buy out in June.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Dion had Montreal, Ottawa and Boston on his allowed list.
i have to say - don't play chicken with Lou. he'll still trade you.