Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

[pucky]

There's so much overreacting in here. Apparently the Leafs are too soft and our defence can never hope to compete with the Bruins.

And yet, they went to game 7 with some of our best offensive players being either no-shows or suspended, and with our goalie being extremely sub-par in at least a couple of games. Granted, he was also great in a couple of games. The point is, they almost won the series.

This does not sound like a team that is grossly outclassed and needs to rethink the way it does business. It sounds more like a team that needs to make some strategic moves to get better.

Our defence wasn't good enough, I agree, but that's not a surprise. It needs to get better, but we don't have to build a big, 'tough' team like them to beat them. There is more than one way to win in the NHL. We do need some size and toughness for sure, but we don't need to remake the whole team.

The Leafs were just fortunate and lucky. They were still dominated at times and outplayed. They often were outshot as well. You're just in denial. The Bruins just got sloppy in those games and Rask was more skaky than Andersen was.

 

[pucky]

Thats why we get Tanev. Carlson replaces Gardiner and is competent defensively . That defense is remarkably better then this years. Also, this way we don't give up any key assests. Sure we might get Trouba or Hamilton but it would cost one of our big 3....

You want a guy at 7 mill/ who is not good defensively? You also want to keep Zaitsev and are okay with keeping Gardiner?

Take off the blue and white goggles. That goes for many others here. You need some changes, but they have to make sense, too.

 

[Nithoniniel]

montour/tanev/ type will be what the leafs get this summer

What is a Montour/Tanev type of D-man?

Is that similar to the Komarov/Ho-Sang type of forward?

 

[LeafFever]

The Leafs were just fortunate and lucky. They were still dominated at times and outplayed. They often were outshot as well. You're just in denial. The Bruins just got sloppy in those games and Rask was more skaky than Andersen was.

The Leafs were not "Lucky" at all. Bruin got majority of the calls and bounces. Boston also had their core players playing their best.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Fully agree. This is by far Lou's biggest failing as GM. A+ forwards, A+ goalie and C- defense. That might be a bit generous too.
Either way, he's done as GM and the d will look reasonably different to start the season.

I wouldn't give our forwards an A+. The group as a whole deserves probably a B or a B+, with a few players playing like they deserve something in the A's. Lots of blame is put on the defense for this teams' woes when the offense still needs a lot of work, especially in their own end. Luckily, most of the players there are good, it's just a matter of getting the most out of them and making sure they learn how to fix their shortcomings.

I wouldn't give Andersen anything more than a B. He's slightly above average at best, because he's not consistent. If he plays at his best, he's an A+. But he gives us that about half of the time. The other half of the time he plays like crap, so it balances out to being a B.

Defense needs the most work and is the place where we need new players, not just training up current players. Gardiner is what he is, and it's not working anymore. If we want our defense to take steps forward, then we can not rely upon Gardiner anymore. Ideally Hainsey's role is also reduced so he maintains his effectiveness longer, which probably means getting one or two guys who can eat up a lot more defensive minutes, but besides getting some super high end defenseman who drastically reduces Gardiner's role to the point where he is hardly even useful on this team anyways, moving Gardiner is the only way to make a legitimate impact on that defense.

 

[pucksakes666]

Thats why we get Tanev. Carlson replaces Gardiner and is competent defensively . That defense is remarkably better then this years. Also, this way we don't give up any key assests. Sure we might get Trouba or Hamilton but it would cost one of our big 3....

Tanev is a good option tho but very risky when you look at how many games he's been able to play the last few years

 

[Nithoniniel]

I prefer Pysyk over most options. Get him to play with Rielly, and then throw assets at Calgary to get Rasmus Andersson. They have a logjam, so he could be available. One of the best d-men in the AHL. Go into next season with:

Rielly - Pysyk
Dermott - Zaitsev
Gardiner - Andersson
Hainsey

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I prefer Pysyk over most options. Get him to play with Rielly, and then throw assets at Calgary to get Rasmus Andersson. They have a logjam, so he could be available. One of the best d-men in the AHL. Go into next season with:

Rielly - Pysyk
Dermott - Zaitsev
Gardiner - Andersson
Hainsey

Pysyk is an attainable target, but Andersson might be hard to get. If I were Calgary I would deal Stone and go with:

Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Andersson

For us 2018-2019 (* = off-side):

Rielly - Pysyk
Dermott - Gardiner*
Borgman/Rosen - Zaitsev

2019-2020:
Rielly - Pysyk
Dermott - Lilijegren
Borgman/Rosen - Zaitsev

 

[Nithoniniel]

Pysyk is an attainable target, but Andersson might be hard to get. If I were Calgary I would deal Stone

Yeah that would definitely be what I would do too, if it was possible to move him. I've heard he might have that spot locked down though, due to having a rather hefty cap hit over the next two seasons.

Calgary wants a RW with top 6 upside. I'd definitely be interested in a Kapanen - Andersson swap.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Also, the biggest-issue is team-defense and not just our actual D. All 4 offensive lines need to be defensively-responsible. Last year the amount of cheating our forwards did was ridiculous.

Just watch Nashville play. Their D don't even have to double-check to see if a teammate is covering for their pinch, they KNOW 100% someone is because that's part of their structure.

Our team? Every single pinch a D makes, the forwards are flat-footed expecting our D to win the pinch 100% of the time. That's idiotic and one of the biggest issues Babcock needs to address.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Yeah that would definitely be what I would do too, if it was possible to move him. I've heard he might have that spot locked down though, due to having a rather hefty cap hit over the next two seasons.

Calgary wants a RW with top 6 upside. I'd definitely be interested in a Kapanen - Andersson swap.

That would definitely be interesting. Both teams trade from a position of strength for a position of weakness. I'm really excited for Kapanen and am expecting a much bigger role for him this year, but I'd do it. A future top-4 of: Rielly - Andersson, Dermott - Lilijegren is too good to miss.

 

[ToneDog]

Yeah that would definitely be what I would do too, if it was possible to move him. I've heard he might have that spot locked down though, due to having a rather hefty cap hit over the next two seasons.

Calgary wants a RW with top 6 upside. I'd definitely be interested in a Kapanen - Andersson swap.

If we deal Kappy, that will another forward we need to replace. We already will be losing JVR, TyBo and Pleks.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If we deal Kappy, that will another forward we need to replace. We already will be losing JVR, TyBo and Pleks.

True. We should be able to handle it though.

Johnsson - Matthews - Brown
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Leivo - Nylander - Hyman
Grundström - Aaltonen/FA - FA

Our prospect depth is starting to disappear though.

 

[Kiwi]

True. We should be able to handle it though.

Johnsson - Matthews - Brown
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
Leivo - Nylander - Hyman
Grundström - Aaltonen/FA - FA

Our prospect depth is starting to disappear though.

That's not great and we'd have almost zero depth up front, dealing a winger for a defenseman isn't going to be as easy to absorb as some might imagine

 

[pucky]

Why would you want to deal Kapanen at this point? One of the few players with pure speed and he hasn't really had the opportunity until late this season. Also, his line mates haven't been very inspiring either. Yet, you want to keep guys like Gardiner and Zaitsev?!?

 

[diceman934]

There were 4 tiers these playoffs:

Tier 1: Bolts Bruins

Tier 2: Leafs

Tier 3: Caps and Pens

Tier 4: Everyone else

Playoff format isn't setup for Leafs current tier as we're only two seasons from finishing last in the entire league yet have to face tier 1 in round 1. What our young team needed was to feast on Murray and Pens D to gain the experience needed to take on the Bruins in the second round instead of the first. The first 2 games is proof of that. Caps last year were an easier opponent than Boston this year. We had no idea what to do in game 1 and 2. We won the best of 5 after learning from those 2 games.


We're not 3-4 D away lol. We just need one to move Gardiner one spot down in the depth chart and bank on our young guys being even better next year. Probably need to sign a forward for JVR as well.

Gardiner is not the issue at all he should be playing with Rielly if all things were equal.

Haisney is a bottom pair D man, as is Zeitsev. We have a top pair and a bottom pair and we have Dermot we simply need another top 4 D man and then have the coach play them on the right pairing.

 

[Nithoniniel]

That's not great and we'd have almost zero depth up front, dealing a winger for a defenseman isn't going to be as easy to absorb as some might imagine

That's definitely true. With all the talent we've pushed into the lineup over the last two years, it's definitely taken a toll on our forward depth.

Why would you want to deal Kapanen at this point? One of the few players with pure speed and he hasn't really had the opportunity until late this season. Also, his line mates haven't been very inspiring either. Yet, you want to keep guys like Gardiner and Zaitsev?!?

Well obviously because the deal I suggested wasn't because I want to trade Kapanen, but because the deal gives us an asset we have more use for. Is that so difficult to understand?

 

[Kiwi]

That's definitely true. With all the talent we've pushed into the lineup over the last two years, it's definitely taken a toll on our forward depth.


Well obviously because the deal I suggested wasn't because I want to trade Kapanen, but because the deal gives us an asset we have more use for. Is that so difficult to understand.

Yeah, picks and prospects are probably a better option if we're going for it with Matthew's and Marner still on there ELC'S rather than thinning ourselves out up front

I'd much rather chase a potentially cheaper option like Pysyk or Meyers but if we go big game hunting I cringe when I think of the potential cost

 

[LeafingTheWay]

That's not great and we'd have almost zero depth up front, dealing a winger for a defenseman isn't going to be as easy to absorb as some might imagine

We do have some good prospects coming up at wing though. Bracco, Grundstrom, Timashov, Korkshov, Engvall are just a few guys that will be competing for spots in the near future if-ready. I know a few aren't ready yet, but we can certainly adsorb the hit in wing depth if we tried in free agency. Our D depth is deep at the left, but our right-side is non-existent. Trading away Kappy is a big loss, but that's a HUGE gain on the right-side.

Why would you want to deal Kapanen at this point? One of the few players with pure speed and he hasn't really had the opportunity until late this season. Also, his line mates haven't been very inspiring either. Yet, you want to keep guys like Gardiner and Zaitsev?!?

No one wants to deal Kapanen. He's going to be an impact player. But if you can get an equally talented impact player in return in a position we need, then why not? Andersson is a RHD Dermott level prospect imo. Imagine a future of:

Rielly - Andersson
Dermott - Lilijegren
Borgman/Rosen - Zaitsev

 

[Kiwi]

We do have some good prospects coming up at wing though. Bracco, Grundstrom, Timashov, Korkshov, Engvall are just a few guys that will be competing for spots in the near future if-ready. I know a few aren't ready yet, but we can certainly adsorb the hit in wing depth if we tried in free agency. Our D depth is deep at the left, but our right-side is non-existent. Trading away Kappy is a big loss, but that's a HUGE gain on the right-side.



No one wants to deal Kapanen. He's going to be an impact player. But if you can get an equally talented impact player in return in a position we need, then why not? Andersson is a RHD Dermott level prospect imo. Imagine a future of:

Rielly - Andersson
Dermott - Lilijegren
Borgman/Rosen - Zaitsev

If we're doing this deal to try to win next season while Matthew's and Marner are on entry level deals still those kids you listed probably wont be ready for that kind of responsibility

If we're doing a deal for the future it may but if we're trying to win next season it's got to based around picks and non roster players

 

[ToneDog]

Many are including Leivo in the lineup. I think he is a longshot at best and will most likely be moved before or at the draft.

If we want to acquire a dman at the cost of of depth up front, we need to sign some UFAs. McKenzie thinks Tavares is not resigning with the Isles but Leafs are not in the mix. Personally I don't understand why the Leafs would not be in the mix unless JT tells them he is not interested in playing in a fishbowl.

We are not deep enough and need NHL ready "free" assets or we risk not gaining ground on the front runners.

 

[Marmoset]

The Leafs were just fortunate and lucky. They were still dominated at times and outplayed. They often were outshot as well. You're just in denial. The Bruins just got sloppy in those games and Rask was more skaky than Andersen was.

I'm in denial of what exactly? The Bruins "just got sloppy" - so the Leafs should be bashed for their faults, but not get credit for the good? Two seasons in a row they have come very close to beating higher-ranked teams in the first round.

I'm not arguing that there aren't significant issues with the team, but on the whole they have performed well and are ahead of where most people expected them to be. If some fans are upset that they haven't gone on an extended post-season run yet or build up a stud defence, perhaps the expectations of those fans are not realistic.

If we're having the same conversation a couple of years from now, then I'll be more understanding of it.

 

[pucky]

I'm in denial of what exactly? The Bruins "just got sloppy" - so the Leafs should be bashed for their faults, but not get credit for the good? Two seasons in a row they have come very close to beating higher-ranked teams in the first round.

I'm not arguing that there aren't significant issues with the team, but on the whole they have performed well and are ahead of where most people expected them to be. If some fans are upset that they haven't gone on an extended post-season run yet or build up a stud defence, perhaps the expectations of those fans are not realistic.

If we're having the same conversation a couple of years from now, then I'll be more understanding of it.

You really think they came close? Two consecutive years, they were upset in the first round, allegations of a poor defence and several forwards not showing up or the supposed explosive offense not showing up.

They have glaring holes and they will be forced to make some difficult choices and changes (they can't re-sign everybody and there are some they should let walk anyway).

Yes, you're in absolute denial. I guess even a reasonable and logical explanation will be lost on you (how on earth can you digest it if you are in such denial?!? It's like talking to a wall.) Sigh. :-/

 

[Marmoset]

You really think they came close? Two consecutive years, they were upset in the first round, allegations of a poor defence and several forwards not showing up or the supposed explosive offense not showing up.

They have glaring holes and they will be forced to make some difficult choices and changes (they can't re-sign everybody and there are some they should let walk anyway).

Yes, you're in absolute denial. I guess even a reasonable and logical explanation will be lost on you (how on earth can you digest it if you are in such denial?!? It's like talking to a wall.) Sigh. :-/

To be upset in the first round, you must be the favoured team! The Leafs were the underdog in both series. In both cases their opponent had a significantly better regular season record. In both cases most hockey fans expected them to lose. Many fans expected them to lose in shorter series.

As I also said, "I'm not arguing that there aren't significant issues with the team". There are. No denying that. I just see no reason to be apoplectic about it. Again, if nothing has changed in a couple of years, then this will be more like where the Raptors are now and I'll be upset. I see no reason to be upset right now unless this team is unable to learn and improve.

 

[sxvnert]

Leafs have more than enough non roster assets to pull off an OEL deal. If he doesn't sign an 8 year deal by the 2019 trade deadline (preferably by the end of the summer) then move him to recoup as many assets as possible.