Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

[Stephen]

Yuskevich, Markov and Lefebvre all big, tough, hard-hitting guys

Markov was 5'11" and Yushkevich was 6'0." They just played with courage which someone like a 6'2" Gardiner doesn't.

 

[Stephen]

I'm curious if anyone knows what kind of player Pateryn is now? Could he be a useful stopgap until Liljigren is ready? Say a younger, slight upgrade on Polak? Apparently he started well in Dallas but was overplayed and tired out according to some postings. With fewer minutes he might be able to play an effective secondary shutdown role and give Hainsey a bit of a rest while doing so perhaps?

Funny how Pateryn was traded for Grabovski almost a lifetime ago now.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I'd say those are possession Dmen. A shut down guy is someone with great shot suppression, great PK, and reduces opportunities.

Tanev, Hjammarson are examples.

There are roles for both type on a top team.

Right my point is they don’t use shutdown D they use possession dmen.

 

[Fogelhund]

Right my point is they don’t use shutdown D they use possession dmen.

Then you want a Carlson, who is very good in the Neutral Zone, and turning the puck back into offensive possession. Having said that, I think a Leafs team that adds both Carlson, and Tanev, has a winning combo of both attributes.

 

[Paladin2799]

Then you want a Carlson, who is very good in the Neutral Zone, and turning the puck back into offensive possession. Having said that, I think a Leafs team that adds both Carlson, and Tanev, has a winning combo of both attributes.

Z would have to be going back in the Tanev trade, but i'm totally cool with that TBH.

Reilly-Carlson
Gardiner-Tanev
Dermott-Hainsey

I'd try to exchange gardiner for something else for the #2 LD position, good old hockey deal, but if it wasn't there I wouldn't force it for the sake of making a deal.

 

[Boutette]

Z would have to be going back in the Tanev trade, but i'm totally cool with that TBH.

Reilly-Carlson
Gardiner-Tanev
Dermott-Hainsey

I'd try to exchange gardiner for something else for the #2 LD position, good old hockey deal, but if it wasn't there I wouldn't force it for the sake of making a deal.

You'll need a RD to fill in for the 40 games + playoffs that Tanev will be spending vacationing on Robidas Island every year.

 

[Fogelhund]

That's fine, it gives Lily some NHL exposure.

 

[weems]

We need to upgrade the D no doubt but as a collective unit we drastically need to improve on some of the smaller finer elements of good solid team D.

Things like back pressure, puck support, gap control, sacrificing the body to make a play are all things that lead to potential good team D and things this group has pretty terrible at for awhile.

 

[ottomaddox]

Funny, when I look at your list I see one glaring issue. No matter how "tough" these guys were, they still couldn't manage to carry the leafs to the finals. Maybe the team needs to try different approach, since that has yet to work? I mean, we all know a famous definition of insanity right?

When have we had a defense anywhere close to what those teams had in the last 16 years?

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Leafs would have won game seven quite possibly if it wasn't for the complete bungling of line matchups and defence matchups by Babcock. Then maybe the silly argument that Leafs have the worse seven dmen in the league wouldn't have much relevance in any discussion.

 

[Boutette]

When have we had a defense anywhere close to what those teams had in the last 16 years?

Its difficult to tell how good a defense is when coaches after coach is committed to organizing their game strategy as though their team is playing a game of pond hockey.

 

[ottomaddox]

We are drunk on Tavares Wine. I think most fans are floating and glowing about his acquisition. What about our biggest need?

Nothing was done this offseason in terms of the defense. I think Dubas and Shanny are too wishful that everyone matures and the defense will vastly improve from last year.

Unless *Jesper Lindgren can come in, score 45 points, run the power play, kill penalties and play 25 min. a night I don't see any difference from last season.

Wishing that Zaitsev has a bounce back season is not good enough.

*Kidding about Jesper Lindgren.

 

[Joey Hoser]

We are drunk on Tavares Wine. I think most fans are floating and glowing about his acquisition. What about our biggest need?

Nothing was done this offseason in terms of the defense. I think Dubas and Shanny are too wishful that everyone matures and the defense will vastly improve from last year.

Unless *Jesper Lindgren can come in, score 45 points, run the power play, kill penalties and play 25 min. a night I don't see any difference from last season.

Wishing that Zaitsev has a bounce back season is not good enough.

*Kidding about Jesper Lindgren.

They allowed the 3rd fewest goals in the conference last season, and fewer than Washington who won the cup.

They probably don't view it as a desperate need, because it isn't. It'll probably improve simply by replacing Polak.

 

[rent free]

They allowed the 3rd fewest goals in the conference last season, and fewer than Washington who won the cup.

They probably don't view it as a desperate need, because it isn't. It'll probably improve simply by replacing Polak.

Replacing polak isn't going to improve the defence on its own.

 

[Liminality]

We are drunk on Tavares Wine. I think most fans are floating and glowing about his acquisition. What about our biggest need?

Nothing was done this offseason in terms of the defense. I think Dubas and Shanny are too wishful that everyone matures and the defense will vastly improve from last year.

Unless *Jesper Lindgren can come in, score 45 points, run the power play, kill penalties and play 25 min. a night I don't see any difference from last season.

Wishing that Zaitsev has a bounce back season is not good enough.

*Kidding about Jesper Lindgren.

Our biggest need was players (not just dmen) who can exit the defensive zone. What did we do? We got rid of our worst dman at that, Polak. You know who else we got rid of that were horrible at exiting the defensive zone? Komarov, Bozak and JVR.

 

[tmlfan98]

They allowed the 3rd fewest goals in the conference last season, and fewer than Washington who won the cup.

They probably don't view it as a desperate need, because it isn't. It'll probably improve simply by replacing Polak.

Very true statement about Polak. I keep forgetting the stat, but what was the Leafs record last year with and without Polak in the lineup?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Our biggest need was players (not just dmen) who can exit the defensive zone. What did we do? We got rid of our worst dman at that, Polak. You know who else we got rid of that were horrible at exiting the defensive zone? Komarov, Bozak and JVR.

In before yeah but ... but ... but ...

 

[PuckMagi]

We are drunk on Tavares Wine. I think most fans are floating and glowing about his acquisition. What about our biggest need?

Nothing was done this offseason in terms of the defense. I think Dubas and Shanny are too wishful that everyone matures and the defense will vastly improve from last year.

Unless *Jesper Lindgren can come in, score 45 points, run the power play, kill penalties and play 25 min. a night I don't see any difference from last season.

Wishing that Zaitsev has a bounce back season is not good enough.

*Kidding about Jesper Lindgren.

It's important to recognize that we basically have 0% chance of missing the playoffs with this current roster.

I think we will upgrade our defense, but we might wait until around the deadline before we make any moves.

Right now, we don't really know what we have in Zaitsev. We don't know how good Igor Ozhiganov is. So we don't really know what exactly we need right now. Are we going to try Rielly or Dermott on the right side?

Ya, of course we want a top pairing right handed defender. Lots of teams want that. But I don't think that Dubas is ready to trade someone like Nylander or Kadri to make that happen... at least not right now. We're not getting a good defender for Leivo and a second round pick or anything like that.

We all want to improve our defense... but what's the rush? Isn't it better to wait until a good deal comes along? Does it really matter if we trade for a defender now or in early 2019?

Patience my friend. A good deal will come along and Dubas will pull the trigger. But if you try and force a trade, you'll end up overpaying.

 

[FlareKnight]

In the end we'll see how this group looks when they take the ice. They have to keep improving as a group which is more important than any single trade or addition.

Going forward the group has to play better in general. They kept a lot of pucks out of the net last year. That Andersen played well for a lot of the year isn't a counter to anything. He's part of the group on the ice trying to keep the puck out of the net. Changes are always going to be worth exploring. They can and are likely looking into moves, but also have guys developing in the system that we have to wait on. The strength of this team is up front and in net. If those strengths hold up then the team will win games.

It's fine to keep an eye on the weak spots of a team, but not to get obsessed with them. There is no rush to make a big move. The team is good and will win games as it is. Let them see what they have right now and as the year goes on they can explore their options.

Replacing polak isn't going to improve the defence on its own.

Sure it will. Replacing Polak with a better player by default will improve the defense. Now if you want to talk about dramatic improvements then no single move is likely to do that. But even a minor improvement is still an improvement.

 

[MyBudJT]

I don't agree with the replacing Polak sentiments... He was a great PKer, and overall, was a better hockey player than Carrick who many have pegged in on the roster.

That said, I think people don't realize how young our D is... If you take away Hainsey, our D is among the youngest in the league. Its not all that absurd to expect the Riellys, the Gardiners, the Dermotts, the Zaitsevs to improve off of last season.

 

[Joey Hoser]

but what was the Leafs record last year with and without Polak in the lineup?

I don't know how to look that up, I had to manually go through his game logs. I think I have it right.

Leafs were 29-20-5 with Polak in 17-18.

20-6-2 without.

That's a much bigger difference than I expected, and the samples are decent sizes. I thought I was going out on more of a limb than that.

 

[tmlfan98]

I don't know how to look that up, I had to manually go through his game logs. I think I have it right.

Leafs were 29-20-5 with Polak in 17-18.

20-6-2 without.

That's actually a way bigger difference than I expected. And decent samples at that.

Wow, I remembered that it was a positive difference without Polak but I didn't know it was that big of a difference lol.

 

[BertCorbeau]

*looks at the forward lines*

But seriously the Leafs do need another top 4 defender to be a legit cup favourite, but the impact of Tavares on the line up (not having to shelter the third line, having another line that can dominate possession and scoring against top competition) will have positive resonating effects on the team defense as a whole.

 

[ottomaddox]

It's important to recognize that we basically have 0% chance of missing the playoffs with this current roster.

I think we will upgrade our defense, but we might wait until around the deadline before we make any moves.

Right now, we don't really know what we have in Zaitsev. We don't know how good Igor Ozhiganov is. So we don't really know what exactly we need right now. Are we going to try Rielly or Dermott on the right side?

Ya, of course we want a top pairing right handed defender. Lots of teams want that. But I don't think that Dubas is ready to trade someone like Nylander or Kadri to make that happen... at least not right now. We're not getting a good defender for Leivo and a second round pick or anything like that.

We all want to improve our defense... but what's the rush? Isn't it better to wait until a good deal comes along? Does it really matter if we trade for a defender now or in early 2019?

Patience my friend. A good deal will come along and Dubas will pull the trigger. But if you try and force a trade, you'll end up overpaying.

I think we do. I think we'll be in playoff futulity until things get fixed. Of those names that you mentioned can they take PK minutes away from Hainsey?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I don't know how to look that up, I had to manually go through his game logs. I think I have it right.

Leafs were 29-20-5 with Polak in 17-18.

20-6-2 without.

That's a much bigger difference than I expected, and the samples are decent sizes. I thought I was going out on more of a limb than that.

It is important to remember that Polak was put into the lineup against more physical teams while Carrick played against more skill based teams.

That stat also points out that the leafs have struggled against very physical hard hitting/cycling teams.