Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

[Ziggdiezan]

What the leafs needed more than a new defender against Boston was defensively responsible forwards willing to back check or cover a pinch.

All of Boston's forwards bought into that idea and took a huge amount of pressure off their defenders as a result. Leaf's forwards on the other hand.....

 

[Joey Hoser]

It is important to remember that Polak was put into the lineup against more physical teams while Carrick played against more skill based teams.

That stat also points out that the leafs have struggled against very physical hard hitting/cycling teams.

I don't really remember that being the case, and looking through the game logs here I see Polak missing the first three weeks because he wasn't signed yet. Then he sat for over three weeks in November. That accounts for most of the games Polak missed. Carrick and he played a number of games together in March after Borgman was sent down.

Doesn't really look like that happened, actually.

 

[namttebih]

It's important to recognize that we basically have 0% chance of missing the playoffs with this current roster.

I think we will upgrade our defense, but we might wait until around the deadline before we make any moves.

Right now, we don't really know what we have in Zaitsev. We don't know how good Igor Ozhiganov is. So we don't really know what exactly we need right now. Are we going to try Rielly or Dermott on the right side?

Ya, of course we want a top pairing right handed defender. Lots of teams want that. But I don't think that Dubas is ready to trade someone like Nylander or Kadri to make that happen... at least not right now. We're not getting a good defender for Leivo and a second round pick or anything like that.

We all want to improve our defense... but what's the rush? Isn't it better to wait until a good deal comes along? Does it really matter if we trade for a defender now or in early 2019?

Patience my friend. A good deal will come along and Dubas will pull the trigger. But if you try and force a trade, you'll end up overpaying.

I'd happier right now if they paid the smaller price for another strong 3/4 type of guy.

 

[The Iceman]

Was it Carrick in Polak out or was it Dermott that made the difference?

 

[nsleaf]

What the leafs needed more than a new defender against Boston was defensively responsible forwards willing to back check or cover a pinch.

All of Boston's forwards bought into that idea and took a huge amount of pressure off their defenders as a result. Leaf's forwards on the other hand.....

For sure, it's a state of mind, I'm hoping this young Leafs team learned from that series.

 

[Rielly4]

Dermott is a legit top 4 D. Everyone seems to say Liljegren might be our savior but to me Dermott is the better all around D man and will be a big part of our blueline.

Gardiner-Rielly
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Holl

This is a way better blue line than it was last year simply because of the re construction of the top 4.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I don't really remember that being the case, and looking through the game logs here I see Polak missing the first three weeks because he wasn't signed yet. Then he sat for over three weeks in November. That accounts for most of the games Polak missed. Carrick and he played a number of games together in March after Borgman was sent down.

Doesn't really look like that happened, actually.

Interesting, that is surprising as I remember some rotation going on between Carrick and Polak at some point in that #3RD slot.

Both Carrick and polak played around 50 games so I would be surprised that those 6 weeks are all Polak missed.

Did polak play more compared to Carrick when Dermott was called up? Seemed like it

 

[Atomos2]

Can't honestly remember the last time the D weren't the main focal point issue with the Leafs. The only drawback of having an amazing forward corp is the fact that it will make it that much harder to significantly upgrade the defense

 

[hector morrison]

How much to bring Bieksa here? And yes,I realize he is 37 but he does bring an element the Leafs don't have.Playing in the east on a highly skilled offensive team might rejuvenate him. Plus, I think he is from the area!

 

[Albert Iafrate]

Why in God's name do we have to win the cup this season? Why is everyone so obsessed with this season? You know we just signed Tavares for 7 years right? And our other best players are like 20, 21 years old, right? Our window is huge. Plus, listening to people who know about the business of hockey, we are heading for a lockout, and because of all of these bonus laden contracts stars are getting, players will sit out a whole year. They have the leverage. So let's imagine 2019-2020 is a write off. Plus Seattle, which, if the expansion draft runs like Vegas, there will be some defenders to poach. There is just too many unknowns to commit to adding players this season. So just play our young guys and see if any of our young guys are up for a top 4 spot, then move Gardiner at the deadline and get a rental on the right side like Tyler Myers (rental-rental swap). If the players sit out the following season, we look to 2020 or 2021 for defenders.
According to everything we've heard, Matthews, Marner, Tavares will be here to 2025, at least. Nylander could be, but even a bridge would bring him to 2022.
My point is, why anchor ourselves to a contract this year, when we don't know what the cap situation will look like in two years. The idea that we had "two windows" is now gone because of Tavares. We just have one huge window, and there are so many quality d-men that are going to be available in 2021 - 2025. ('cough' Come home P.K.)

 

[ottomaddox]

Dermott is a legit top 4 D. Everyone seems to say Liljegren might be our savior but to me Dermott is the better all around D man and will be a big part of our blueline.

Gardiner-Rielly
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey-Holl

This is a way better blue line than it was last year simply because of the re construction of the top 4.

This Gardiner - Rielly pairing is a fan fantasy/daydream. Babs had all these years to put them together. Why now?

 

[ottomaddox]

Why in God's name do we have to win the cup this season? Why is everyone so obsessed with this season? You know we just signed Tavares for 7 years right? And our other best players are like 20, 21 years old, right? Our window is huge. Plus, listening to people who know about the business of hockey, we are heading for a lockout, and because of all of these bonus laden contracts stars are getting, players will sit out a whole year. They have the leverage. So let's imagine 2019-2020 is a write off. Plus Seattle, which, if the expansion draft runs like Vegas, there will be some defenders to poach. There is just too many unknowns to commit to adding players this season. So just play our young guys and see if any of our young guys are up for a top 4 spot, then move Gardiner at the deadline and get a rental on the right side like Tyler Myers (rental-rental swap). If the players sit out the following season, we look to 2020 or 2021 for defenders.
According to everything we've heard, Matthews, Marner, Tavares will be here to 2025, at least. Nylander could be, but even a bridge would bring him to 2022.
My point is, why anchor ourselves to a contract this year, when we don't know what the cap situation will look like in two years. The idea that we had "two windows" is now gone because of Tavares. We just have one huge window, and there are so many quality d-men that are going to be available in 2021 - 2025. ('cough' Come home P.K.)

I'm obsessed with them winning every season.

 

[PuckMagi]

I'd happier right now if they paid the smaller price for another strong 3/4 type of guy.

A 3/4 guy still doesn't come cheap.

And also, how sure are you that this hypothetical 3/4 guy is better than who we have. Are they going to be better than Gardiner, Rielly, Demott, Hainsey or Zaitsev?

If Zaitsev plays well this year, we may not really have a need for a 3/4 type of guy. If he doesn't play well and no one else steps up, then we need to look at 3/4 type of players.

 

[PuckMagi]

I think we do. I think we'll be in playoff futulity until things get fixed. Of those names that you mentioned can they take PK minutes away from Hainsey?

I'm not saying that we don't need another defender who can PK. I'm saying that we don't need to get one this off-season and we can get one at the deadline or during the year instead.

Babcock does not need to use Hainsey so heavily on the PK. I was probably the first poster to criticize Babcock for how he used Hainsey. Even if our PK isn't great right now, we will still make the playoffs and we can still pick up a defender to help our PK sometime during the season.

 

[Animal]

How much to bring Bieksa here? And yes,I realize he is 37 but he does bring an element the Leafs don't have.Playing in the east on a highly skilled offensive team might rejuvenate him. Plus, I think he is from the area!

You see, theres one problem. Bieksa sucks.

 

[Notsince67]

How many games do we have to see our D bailed out by our goalie, or our scoring talent (forwards)?

How many playoff series do we have to lose?

Why hang on so long to all the wrong parts?

You can't just come in year after year and blame the 5th and 6th D for TOR's woes. We need some fresh eyes and a serious long look at our defense.

Are we missing just 1 guy?
Will Liljegren be the answer?

No. We might still be missing 3 or 4 D.

We have to take some risks here.

Yes that means possibly parting with Jake or Morgan!

The D is not working!

Yeah. Cut the flesh out and leave the infection

 

[hector morrison]

You see, theres one problem. Bieksa sucks.

Really? ....that bad ? Or are you just biased? I won't pretend to know his stats but didn't he have a bottom role with the Ducks last year?

 

[Joey Hoser]

Interesting, that is surprising as I remember some rotation going on between Carrick and Polak at some point in that #3RD slot.

Both Carrick and polak played around 50 games so I would be surprised that those 6 weeks are all Polak missed.

Did polak play more compared to Carrick when Dermott was called up? Seemed like it

Those 6 weeks represents 18-20 of the 30 games Polak missed. I didn't dig deep enough to account for the rest of the games, those were just obvious chunks of time where he played no games.

I remember Carrick playing a lot early, then being benched for awhile while Borgman played. Then Borgman started to struggle a bit and Carrick played a bit more, until Dermott showed up. After that Carrick was basically just an injury fill in.

I'm sure that's not 100% right, but more or less what I remember.

 

[Animal]

Really? ....that bad ? Or are you just biased? I won't pretend to know his stats but didn't he have a bottom role with the Ducks last year?

I just know Ducks fans who were very happy to see him gone. Similar to my joy seeing Polak gone

 

[34]

Sounds great, but NOT at the cost of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares or Marner.

 

[hector morrison]

I just know Ducks fans who were very happy to see him gone. Similar to my joy seeing Polak gone

Ok ,I see what you mean! just his toughness that I was after, but if he is truly that bad,but as mentioned Dubas seems to be a smart cookie,so we will see!

 

[Rielly4]

This Gardiner - Rielly pairing is a fan fantasy/daydream. Babs had all these years to put them together. Why now?

Both have developed a lot to the point where they can handle defensive responsibilities and are mature enough to realize the importance of a two way game. At the end of the day a Rielly-Hainsey top pair isnt good enough...Gardiner can have much more of a positive impact on the top pair. Rielly and Gardiner together would have the puck more than not and would generate a lot of shots for and minimize shots against.

 

[namttebih]

A 3/4 guy still doesn't come cheap.

And also, how sure are you that this hypothetical 3/4 guy is better than who we have. Are they going to be better than Gardiner, Rielly, Demott, Hainsey or Zaitsev?

If Zaitsev plays well this year, we may not really have a need for a 3/4 type of guy. If he doesn't play well and no one else steps up, then we need to look at 3/4 type of players.

I meant another 3/4 guy to round out the starting 6 not necessarily to play in that slot. If we only have one true top pairing guy in MR, it would be nice to fill slots 2-6 with 3/4 type of guys.

I do agree that it might come at too high a cost though. A 3/4 type of player without term used as a stop gap is going to be a lot cheaper than aiming for another true top pairing guy.

 

[Peasy]

The main problem against Boston was that our entire right side of the defence could not move the puck to save their life. Boston neutered our left side, gave them no options, and forced our right side to make a play which often ended up in a turn over and giving the puck away for free.

 

[ottomaddox]

Both have developed a lot to the point where they can handle defensive responsibilities and are mature enough to realize the importance of a two way game. At the end of the day a Rielly-Hainsey top pair isnt good enough...Gardiner can have much more of a positive impact on the top pair. Rielly and Gardiner together would have the puck more than not and would generate a lot of shots for and minimize shots against.

Based on what?

What could be?

Why doesn't Babcock know this?