Line Combos: TOR needs to **** or get off the pot in regards to our defense

[Obliviate]

It's a hot take that our defence is bad? since when?

The hot take is that it's better than everyone thinks!

 

[Obliviate]

This fanbase gets a bit stupid when we are emotional.

ergo, perpetual stupidity...

 

[Obliviate]

Move Gards to a team looking for a PMD for a younger capable defensive D.
Fill the remaining two spots with shorter term Hainsey types. Look players with a few years left on their deals and/or sign a few free agents.

Leafs are still 2-3 years away from seeing what these picks will turn into:

Jesper Lindgren (20) - Height 6.00 - Weight 160 - shoots R
Nicolas Mattinen (20) - Height 6.05 - Weight 215 - shoots R
J.D. Greenway (20) - Height 6.04 - Weight 205 - shoots L
Keaton Middleton (20) - Height 6.05 - Weight 235 - shoots L
Timothy Liljegren (19) - Height 6.00 - Weight 190 - shoots R
Eemeli Rasanen (19) - Height 6.07 -- Weight 226 - shoots R
Fedor Gordeev (19) - Height 6.06 - Weight 211 - shoots L

or if Minny is looking to move in a different direction inquire about Suter. The bulk of his recapture will still be paid by Minny and if they're willing to retain 2m+ I would seriously consider a Gardiner for Suter swap.

Suter Rielly
Johnson Zaitsev
Dermott Hainsey

 

[Obliviate]

he is what he is.

Red hot, with a two game goal scoring streak!

 

[Obliviate]

Gardiner is not a defenceman. He is a converted centre. It has been 8 years of people saying hey this guys has beautiful edgework, can skate, good hands and size. We can make him a defenceman. He will NEVER EVER be a defenceman. You have to have the heartfelt desire to play defence. It is a very tough position to play. Maybe Leafs will move him back to centre next year. Thats what he loves to do. I do not blame him. He says all the right things but it was never ingrained in him. When all the sports talking heads in toronto talk about his mistakes and say well those mistakes should have been corrected when he was 12. Well guess what folks he STARTED learning defence on the fly at University of Wisconsin. There is a reason he can't pivot to his left. Why do you think goal 5 had a chance? Our sports media people are not hockey people. They are talking heads. Take a look at the tape under pressure he ALWAYS pivots to his right. This is an extremely difficult skill to learn at 20. People are throwing him under the bus and it really is unfair. He is still a major project under development to learn defence. It has nothing to do with fact he is 28. He has 8 years of experience now as a defence. Dermott has been playing defence since he was 5. Rielly since atom. They have many many more years of experience and coaches who actually teach them. The nhl is not where you learn defence. nhl coaches are people managers not position and skill teachers. He just does not have the ingrained experience to fall back on.

You don't take a 50+ point dman and convert them to a forward. That's pure lunacy. Trade him, sure. But let's be real here.

 

[PuckMagi]

Dermott - Rielly
Gardiner - Hainsey
Rosen/Borgman - Zaitsev

I think that Dermott and Rielly could work as a top pair. Gardiner is the most in need of a Hainsey type of partner.

 

[Obliviate]

Dermott - Rielly
Gardiner - Hainsey
Rosen/Borgman - Zaitsev

I think that Dermott and Rielly could work as a top pair. Gardiner is the most in need of a Hainsey type of partner.

Dermott cannot be given top pair duties in his first full year. That's not a sound strategy for his development.

 

[Drytoast]

Dermott cannot be given top pair duties in hos first full year. That's not a sound strategy for his development.

Reilly should be with zaitsev because hainsey works better with gardiner

 

[rent free]

Both have developed a lot to the point where they can handle defensive responsibilities and are mature enough to realize the importance of a two way game. At the end of the day a Rielly-Hainsey top pair isnt good enough...Gardiner can have much more of a positive impact on the top pair. Rielly and Gardiner together would have the puck more than not and would generate a lot of shots for and minimize shots against.

They haven't developed a lot to the point where they can handle defensive responsibilities. There's a reason why Babcock put hainsey with Reilly and tried to make zaitsev more defensive and partnered him with gardener.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I'm not saying that we don't need another defender who can PK. I'm saying that we don't need to get one this off-season and we can get one at the deadline or during the year instead.

Babcock does not need to use Hainsey so heavily on the PK. I was probably the first poster to criticize Babcock for how he used Hainsey. Even if our PK isn't great right now, we will still make the playoffs and we can still pick up a defender to help our PK sometime during the season.

Babcock will need to work with the youngsters on the PK instead of using his vets so much.

Dermott + Carrick can definitely take some pressure off Hainsey + Zaitsev. And if Carrick, in particular, isn't getting the job done as the playoffs get close then we look to bring someone in at the deadline.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

All in due time, young apprentice.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

I’d give Rielly and Zaitsev another shot together. Also Hainsey and Jake looked good while Rielly was out last season. Dermott and either Borgman or Carrick would look good aswell (Dermott and Borgman played together most of the pre-season)

Rielly - - - Zaitsev
Gardiner - Hainsey
Dermott - Borgman/Carrick

Yes I know Borgman is a lefty but he adds some much needed size and physicality to the back end.​

 

[X66]

People are not going to like this answer, but we have a long time to fix this defence, there is no rush.

I was 100% on Calvin de Hann but that's because it was a free asset at a cheap price(relatively speaking) and he'd fit like a glove on this team.

But I can see them going being very patient with improving the D.

 

[DJIncognito]

This is what I want to see then add in Liljegren. But what is it going to take to get Faulk: 2nd, Johnsson/Brown, Rosen?
Rielly - - - Zaitsev
Gardiner - Faulk
Dermott - Borgman
Hainsey - Carrick

 

[Falon]

I really feel that this has been talked to death but apparently not. There is no way to get the kind of defenseman that the Leafs covet unless they are willing to move Nylander. While that is not appealing to many, it is the only way to do it for the upcoming season. If you disagree, just look at the proposals on the main board. While there is a lot of homerism and overvaluing, if you read between the lines, it's clear that no team's fans want a package of youth and picks. Which seems to be the case in real life as none of the apparently available defensemen have been moved. Regardless of whether we think that Connor Brown can be a top 6 forward and a pick or whatever should be enough to get what the team wants, it clearly isn't or it would have happened. Right now there seems to be only 1 defenseman that is being talked about and that is Faulk, who does not meet what Toronto wants. As I've said in a couple other threads, Toronto could pursue Pesce, but Carolina would rather move Faulk. For Carolina, that makes sense, however offering Nylander would be enough to cause them to reconsider their position. Not that Pesce alone would be fair value for Nylander (there would have to be more coming back from Carolina), but that is what it would take to make a deal.

 

[Notsince67]

Leafs need zone exit Dmen on the right side. Jeff Petry who is getting older would be really good at 5.5MM

 

[93LEAFS]

This might be one of the best articles I've read regarding Hockey Analytics or even Hockey in gnereal recently, and a reason I will gladly support the work of The Athletic even if I think some of their hires are completely incompetent (I'm looking at a certain prospect writer who is trying to be a draft expert while riding an AHL bus). Dellow really captures the middle ground here between usage by coaches, how defenders are used, and why their may be a disconnect leading to Rielly and Hainsey's numbers being further depressed while explaining why someone like Dermott might be excelling vs top 6 competition, and how that could be an illusion.

Dellow: How Mike Babcock (and others) are sheltering...

 

[Drytoast]

Leafs have both heavily scouted and heavily drafted defense these past few years.

We are going to be fine.

 

[Rehabguy]

Isles fan here. I never understood why the Leafs went after Tavares when offense was already the Leaf''s strength. Made no sense because it's costly. Now if he was #1 draft pick that's another story, but where do you guys get the Cap space to fill in the gaps in your defense? I think it was a question of not looking before you leaped.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Isles fan here. I never understood why the Leafs went after Tavares when offense was already the Leaf''s strength. Made no sense because it's costly. Now if he was #1 draft pick that's another story, but where do you guys get the Cap space to fill in the gaps in your defense? I think it was a question of not looking before you leaped.

Like why would PIT want Kessel when they already have Crosby and Malkin. Just watch this season unfold, you'll understand eventually.

 

[srnd9399]

Isles fan here. I never understood why the Leafs went after Tavares when offense was already the Leaf''s strength. Made no sense because it's costly. Now if he was #1 draft pick that's another story, but where do you guys get the Cap space to fill in the gaps in your defense? I think it was a question of not looking before you leaped.

You go after the top UFA and make it work. Had the Leafs passed on JT, there is no guarantee they sign a top pairing Dman. Leafs overall team D should improve and they have some young talent with the Marlies hoping to make a splash this season or next.

As for the cap space I have full confidence in the Leafs management group. Do you think they haven’t gone over all scenarios prior to the JT pitch? It’s their job to be extremely diligent. Of course JT signing changes things, but Dubas spoke with full confidence that they will keep their core pieces.

 

[ACC1224]

Isles fan here. I never understood why the Leafs went after Tavares when offense was already the Leaf''s strength. Made no sense because it's costly. Now if he was #1 draft pick that's another story, but where do you guys get the Cap space to fill in the gaps in your defense? I think it was a question of not looking before you leaped.

Great assets always have value, never a bad time to obtain one for free.
I'd be surprised if they weren't aware of their cap space before signing Tavares.

 

[Notsince67]

Isles fan here. I never understood why the Leafs went after Tavares when offense was already the Leaf''s strength. Made no sense because it's costly. Now if he was #1 draft pick that's another story, but where do you guys get the Cap space to fill in the gaps in your defense? I think it was a question of not looking before you leaped.

The team's philosophy is that you are opportunistic on talent. Going into next year's draft, if the leafs has #1, they would likely pick Jack Hughes, even though they don't need a center

 

[Coatsy79]

Let's not forget, forcing other teams to defend against us for lots of the game is good for keeping picks out of our net too

I do think a minor add to the top 4 would be helpful though, a minute munching defensive guy could help, if only tanev was less brittle

 

[Liminality]

This might be one of the best articles I've read regarding Hockey Analytics or even Hockey in gnereal recently, and a reason I will gladly support the work of The Athletic even if I think some of their hires are completely incompetent (I'm looking at a certain prospect writer who is trying to be a draft expert while riding an AHL bus). Dellow really captures the middle ground here between usage by coaches, how defenders are used, and why their may be a disconnect leading to Rielly and Hainsey's numbers being further depressed while explaining why someone like Dermott might be excelling vs top 6 competition, and how that could be an illusion.

Dellow: How Mike Babcock (and others) are sheltering...

Pretty good deep dive into the sheltering of dmen. The parts where they list the sheltered and the unsheltered defenders seems pretty accurate and it's interesting to see a list of coaches who also line match as hard as Babcock. This seems like an obvious choice but we need to find someone else to replace Hainsey for that type of usage. I'm sure he'd be fine at even Zaitsev's or Gardiner's usage.