Confirmed with Link: TOR extends Alex Kerfoot. 4 years, 3.5M AAV

[Morgs]

So Gardiner is good defensively? Hahahaha.

Yes. Not in the traditional "take a puck to the face" type of way, but in the way where when he' on the ice he's on for significantly less chances, shot attempts, and goals regardless of his partners, competition, and zone starts.

 

[Mickey Marner]

View attachment 243013

Damn, that's a muderers row of defensive stalwarts.

 

[yubbers]

So one guy sucks, so everyone sucks? Life is not that binary.

That's just the most obvious example. Gave away a solid backup for nothing. Cause he saw Sparks as better? Literally he's the only one who saw that. Hence why is predictably went sideways. Gave away Leivo for a bag of pucks while keeping Lindholm. to make room for Willy after he took Dubas to school. Now he got rid of Kadri because he failed to insulate him with some grit again. Maybe I'm an old dog and this team will be better. I see is getting progressively worse under Dubas. He did it year 1. Let's see if he can go 2 for 2. I have little faith in his vision

 

[Morgs]

Damn, that's a muderers row of defensive stalwarts.

Your point being you're ignorant of what makes a good defensive player?

 

[yubbers]

Yes. Not in the traditional "take a puck to the face" type of way, but in the way where when he' on the ice he's on for significantly less chances, shot attempts, and goals regardless of his partners, competition, and zone starts.

Then why is it nobody wants him on the ice when it matters?

In his defense.... He was a bit better last year. You could tell he was focusing on being more defensive. But then his offensive upside completely disappeared. But he is not a good defenseman. He's afraid of the corners and has mental lapses far too often. Generally cause he's scared of the corners. Be very glad to see him go away. I like stability in my defenseman. He's as unstable as they come

 

[Morgs]

Then why is it nobody wants him on the ice when it matters?

In his defense.... He was a bit better last year. You could tell he was focusing on being more defensive. But then his offensive upside completely disappeared. But he is not a good defenseman. He's afraid if the corners and had mental lapsed often. Generally cause he's scared if the corners. Be very glad to see him go away

Lol so your argument is that Babcock, who had Hainsey & Zaitsev out there in the last minute of games is a good evaluator of defense?

I don't know about all that, but he was still a top-20 LD rated by Corsica, and one of the 10 best overall defenseman based on EvolvingWild's GAR. Both of these things are because he's fantastic at driving play, but his defensive impact is also massive (in a good way). I would love to see him go somewhere else just so he can be appreciated.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Lol so your argument is that Babcock, who had Hainsey & Zaitsev out there in the last minute of games is a good evaluator of defense?

I don't know about all that, but he was still a top-20 LD rated by Corsica, and one of the 10 best overall defenseman based on EvolvingWild's GAR. Both of these things are because he's fantastic at driving play, but his defensive impact is also massive (in a good way).

Gardiner was pretty weak in the playoffs, wasn't he? I'm sure some of that is because of his injury, but he's a risky player. Over an 82 game season you can count on the good to outweigh the bad, but I think he can get abused over a 7 game series. Especially if his health is a concern now

 

[Morgs]

Gardiner was pretty weak in the playoffs, wasn't he? I'm sure some of that is because of his injury, but he's a risky player. Over an 82 game season you can count on the good to outweigh the bad, but I think he can get abused over a 7 game series. Especially if his health is a concern now

He wasn't great, but neither was Dermott. You could tell they were both not in the best spot coming back from injury.

I dont wanna make excuses, but even Muzzin was getting abused being attached to Zaitsev for 7 games. I'd like to see Gards without an anchor tied to his leg for 7 games in the playoffs.

 

[Polaris1010]

Lol so your argument is that Babcock, who had Hainsey & Zaitsev out there in the last minute of games is a good evaluator of defense?

That won a lot of games you know, when Babcock had Zaitsev and Hainsey killing the entire 2 minutes of a penalty or closing out a game.

I thought that was what we were here for, to watch the team win games, make the playoffs, etc.

 

[Morgs]

That won a lot of games you know, when Babcock had Zaitsev and Hainsey killing the entire 2 minutes of a penalty or closing out a game.

I thought that was what we were here for, to watch the team win games, make the playoffs, etc.

The odds of losing the game at that point aren't very good either way iirc.

But putting guys out there that only have the ability to ice the puck and get caved in isn't exactly a strong strategy.

 

[Polaris1010]

Now he got rid of Kadri because he failed to insulate him with some grit again. Maybe I'm an old dog and this team will be better. I see is getting progressively worse under Dubas. He did it year 1. Let's see if he can go 2 for 2. I have little faith in his vision

Dubas does not know what he is doing, and at this point I have to assume is a real dumb person.

Tavares, Matthews, Kadri. That is the best 1-2-3 down the middle in the NHL last season, and I ever saw in the league.

What does Dubas do? He gets rid of that.

Dubas gets rid of a team strength, in exchange he improved what other part of the the team?

You know, I will still watch the games, most of the time I suppose. I just do not expect this team to be as good as the previous 2 years.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Your point being you're ignorant of what makes a good defensive player?

Please. It would be ignorant not to question the model when the results are so poor and the algorithm is publicly disclosed.

• TOI_perc, TOI_GP
• iBLK, iBLK_adj
• GIVE, GIVE_adj,
• GIVE_o, GIVE_n, GIVE_d
• TAKE, TAKE_adj,
• TAKE_o, TAKE_n, TAKE_d
• iHF, iHF_adj,
• iHF_o, iHF_n, iHF_d
• iHA, iHA_adj,
• iHA_o, iHA_n, iHA_d
• OZS_perc, NZS_perc, DZS_perc
• FO_perc, r_FO_perc
• rel_TM_SA60, rel_TM_FA60, rel_TM_CA60, rel_TM_xGA60
• rel_TM_SA60_state, rel_TM_FA60_state, rel_TM_CA60_state, rel_TM_xGA60_state

These are the parts use for DPM. Hardly earth-shattering. Typical hockey model, questionable choice of regression and prior-informed data, converting fluid line changes to binary, spamming the same shots and pretending they're different events explaining different things before, of course, duplicating the shots to achieve the requisite amount of data for the model to have any predictive value.

It's ironic to see all these guys obsess over the accumulation of statistics without understanding how the statistics they're obsessed with are accumulated.

 

[Morgs]

Please. It would be ignorant not to question the model when the results are so poor and the algorithm is publicly disclosed.



These are the parts use for DPM. Hardly earth-shattering. Typical hockey model, questionable choice of regression and prior-informed data, converting fluid line changes to binary, spamming the same shots and pretending they're different events explaining different things before, of course, duplicating the shots to achieve the requisite amount of data for the model to have any predictive value.

It's ironic to see all these guys obsess over the accumulation of statistics without understanding how the statistics they're obsessed with are accumulated.

Let's see your algorithm for isolating a player's impact then please.

 

[yubbers]

Dubas does not know what he is doing, and at this point I have to assume is a real dumb person.

Tavares, Matthews, Kadri. That is the best 1-2-3 down the middle in the NHL last season, and I ever saw in the league.

What does Dubas do? He gets rid of that.

Dubas gets rid of a team strength, in exchange he improved what other part of the the team?

You know, I will still watch the games, most of the time I suppose. I just do not expect this team to be as good as the previous 2 years.

I take no joy in agreeing with you

 

[Cor]

Dubas does not know what he is doing, and at this point I have to assume is a real dumb person.

Tavares, Matthews, Kadri. That is the best 1-2-3 down the middle in the NHL last season, and I ever saw in the league.

What does Dubas do? He gets rid of that.

Dubas gets rid of a team strength, in exchange he improved what other part of the the team?

You know, I will still watch the games, most of the time I suppose. I just do not expect this team to be as good as the previous 2 years.

I know!

Like as if he traded from a team weakness like center, to improve the deepest position we have like right hand defense.

I just can’t understand it, nor defend it

 

[Marshy]

We have RHD this year. It's so exciting.

I think the loss of Kadri will be somewhat mitigated by lines 1 and 2 getting a bit more TOI also. I'm excited to see what that means for AMs production especially.

Babcock jokes aside - I think he has been sat down and had a stern talking to about playing his best players like they are his best players.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I know!

Like as if he traded from a team weakness like center, to improve the deepest position we have like right hand defense.

I just can’t understand it, nor defend it

he should have traded a defenseman to add another great center to play on our 4th line, honestly

 

[Dreakmur]

Your point being you're ignorant of what makes a good defensive player?

Please tell me that chart isn't just adjusted +/-

 

[Morgs]

Please tell me that chart isn't just adjusted +/-

It's not.

 

[Dreakmur]

It's not.

So it’s not goals against per 60 minutes?

 

[Morgs]

So it’s not goals against per 60 minutes?

No.

 

[Superstar]

We have RHD this year. It's so exciting.

I think the loss of Kadri will be somewhat mitigated by lines 1 and 2 getting a bit more TOI also. I'm excited to see what that means for AMs production especially.

Babcock jokes aside - I think he has been sat down and had a stern talking to about playing his best players like they are his best players.

He's still got Hyman...might play him 25 mins a night when he returns after injury to make up for lost time...first unit PP, you know the drill...

 

[Dreakmur]

No.

Good. That would be a terrible stat on which to base your opinion.

 

[Schennanigans]

Why did we extend this player before he even played one game in our system. Why not see how he does this season?

 

[Marshy]

Why did we extend this player before he even played one game in our system. Why not see how he does this season?

To get years 3 and 4 at a discount. They did the same with Andersen. What would he cost on the open market now? More than $5M.

The deal is structured so they can trade him to a budget team after 2 years if he's not earning his contract. It's low risk with the potential to be a great deal if he performs.