Proposal: Tor-Ana Nylander for Montour swap

[Skinnyjimmy08]

man oh man Montour on the Leafs would be unreal.... id imagine Ducks would have to add a tiny bit though... a lot of things need to be considered and wait and see as far as contracts go though before a trade like this would happen though

IMO a guy like Montour is exactly what the Leafs need

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

This is where you are misleading yourself.

Kapanen at age 21 is comfortably ahead of Montour's value at age 21, in all of skill set, draft position, and performance. the fact that Montour had a decent rookie year at age 23 does not put him in a different class of asset than Kapanen.

Similarly, Manson at 26 being a similar calibre a player as Nylander at age 21, does not put Manson in the same tier of value as Nylander.

This is some solid logic....

Ive never seen someone move the goal posts this well... its magical.

But seriously, Anaheim doest need to rush our dmen… so we take time and let them develop. There is a reason we let theodore/vatanen go(who would both be torontos #2 dmen), and that reason is Montour.. I get Montour and Ritchie arnt leaf players/prospects so they arnt going to get the full value based on whatever goal posts you guys are moving to fit your narratives.


Value isn't based by age... its whats on ice... Manson is signed @ 4 mil for 4 more seasons... at 4 mil a season Manson is a huge steal of a player, nylander is likely going to get 7-9 range... I take Manson @ 4 over nylander @ 7+ any day of the week. Montour will likely get around 4-4.5 a season seeing as hes a top 4 RHD with a booming shot and solid enough in his own end... has potentially to become a 50+ point guy @ the nhl level... id take that over nylander also.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

man oh man Montour on the Leafs would be unreal.... id imagine Ducks would have to add a little... a lot of things need to be considered and wait and see as far as contracts go though before a trade like this would happen though

Montour would probably put up 70 points on the leafs… I imagine hed be in heaven being on a team that plays offense the way they do... the ducks system doesn't exactly suit him much but hes doing well despite that.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Do you own a giant corkboard with photos and strings connecting the various photos together, because that's how lucid this line of thought is.

Lol that actually makes a lot of sense... ive never seen someone go so far out of their way to fit a false narrative.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

He's not even a clear cut 2nd pairing D, tbh.

He had a nice 23yr old rookie season as a borderline top-4 dman, just like the year before Connor Brown had a nice 23yr old rookie season as a borderline top-6 forward.

Its pretty clear you don't watch much of Montour... but I coulda told you brown was overrated by leaf fans all along. I was promised brown would be a 30 goal guy last season.

Either way Toronto fans trying to poach Anaheim defender threads should just be instantly locked.

 

[connormcmuffin]

Matthews is only guy id consider for lindholm

Nylander for Lindholm is fair value though but I'm sure you'll subject me to a lecture or personal attack for stating an obvious truth.

 

[Morgs]

Nylander isn't available.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Montour would probably put up 70 points on the leafs…

I was promised brown would be a 30 goal guy last season.

well you seem like a reasonable chap

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Nylander for Lindholm is fair value though but I'm sure you'll subject me to a lecture or personal attack for stating an obvious truth.

And how do you determine that? I don't think leaf fans would agree with you... and im 99% sure dubas would make that trade instantly if it were an option.

well you seem like a reasonable chap

Just sayin when leaf fans wanted fowler for brown + under the basis that brown is going to be a 30 goal guy. As for Montour, hes playing in a bad system for his style of play but learning to be a much better player in his own end... hed do really well in places with high powered offenses.

 

[Notsince67]

Both teams can benefit from each other. Both teams have needs for both players. Im curious on opinions and wanting a HF board generalization of fair trade.

Top 6 Center for Top 4 RHD that is mandatory in this league,

Ana should aim lower. 22 year old, 2 seasons over 60 pts top 10 drafted would return higher all day long

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Ana should aim lower. 22 year old, 2 seasons over 60 pts top 10 drafted would return higher all day long

Toronto should aim lower, or maybe at a team that still isn't in win now mode.

Generally speaking we don't want to move him

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Nylander for Lindholm is fair value though but I'm sure you'll subject me to a lecture or personal attack for stating an obvious truth.

Nah it isn't. Lindholm is more valuable until Nylander either establishes himself as one of the elite producing wingers or rounds out his two way game and/or proves he can cut it as a center.

As they stand now, a Lindholm is a lot harder to get your hands on (via draft or trade) than a Nylander.

 

[zeke]

I said the trade isnt fair BUT a top 4RHD for an actual top 6 C IS fair. Nylander is not an NHL top 6 C though he is a winger. So a top 4 RHD is worth MORE then a top 6 W thats just facts.

if you're calling Willy strictly a winger (which he isn't), then He's not a "top 6" winger, but a "1st line" winger, and has been a very good 1st line winger for in 2yrs now at ages 20-21.

and, again, Montour was a borderline top 4 dman as a rookie - the clear cut distant #4 behind a top 3 well ahead. he still needs to prove He's actually a top 4 dman.

 

[zeke]

We are discussing their value as trade assets today.

correct.

Nylander and Manson would be on a similar level

Manson and Nylander were similar calibre PLAYERS last year.

the fact that willy was a 21yr old in his 2nd season, though, makes him a much more valuable asset.

and Montour is a much more highly coveted piece than Kapanen in any context.

Montour has moved slightly ahead due to proving that he can play in the league when he was given a chance at age 23 that Kapanen has yet to be given by age 21. but no, this does not put him in a different class of asset.

Comparing two players at the same age is not how you determine their value around the league today. Montour and Manson are both very poor choices to play that game with because their development paths are extremely atypical.

age is a critical component of player evaluation.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Anaheim gets bend. No chance

 

[zeke]

Do you own a giant corkboard with photos and strings connecting the various photos together, because that's how lucid this line of thought is.

I can diagram it out for you if you'd like.

But you shouldn't need me to - Kapanen and Montour, by skill set, performance, draft position, and any other criteria, are similar calibre talents, and the fact that Montour was decent when he finally got the shot age 23 that Kapanen has yet to get by age 21 doesn't change that.

 

[mikeyp24]

Agreed they can toss in that ahl'er kapanen to even it out

I honestly dont even know why the discussion seems heated in here... if someone were to offer them a top line wing for Rielly Im sure they would all answer wingers dont get you D our something along those lines. If my team the CBJ offeered Panarin for Doughty what would kings fans say? Panarin was a PPG winger and can be even better with a Kopitar or Carter. Doesnt matter even if he signed an 8 year 8 mil contract we couldnt get LA to do it and we as fans would understand because even elite wingers dont get D.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

im confused by the poll... what top 6 center are we talking about?

 

[Exit Dose]

I can diagram it out for you if you'd like.

I'm sure you could.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I can diagram it out for you if you'd like.

But you shouldn't need me to - Kapanen and Montour, by skill set, performance, draft position, and any other criteria, are similar calibre talents, and the fact that Montour was decent when he finally got the shot age 23 that Kapanen has yet to get by age 21 doesn't change that.

If Kapanen manages to hit his ceiling as useful middle six winger, he still wouldn't be as valuable as the top 4 RHD Montour is today, and given his development trajectory it's fair to suggest Montour has the remaining upside to push that gap even wider - it's not even close as is.

 

[Spazkat]

I mean even if Nylander is a winger that's unproven at center there is a comparable trade there.

Drouin for Sergachev. And imo Nylander > Drouin and Sergachev > Montour.

If you want Nylander a better fringe prospect than Serge has to be coming back at least.

You're using the perceived value of Sergachev now, not the prospect that they traded with only a handful of NHL games played. Tampa was betting that he would turn into what he is now and they won that bet, but it was by no means a sure thing.

 

[mikeyp24]

if you're calling Willy strictly a winger (which he isn't), then He's not a "top 6" winger, but a "1st line" winger, and has been a very good 1st line winger for in 2yrs now at ages 20-21.

and, again, Montour was a borderline top 4 dman as a rookie - the clear cut distant #4 behind a top 3 well ahead. he still needs to prove He's actually a top 4 dman.

Boone Jenner and Foligno played center for us last year but they are wingers. And Im not hating on Nylander I don't know the line he played most frequently on and I dont know his goal totals to judge if he is a 1st or 2nd liner so ill trust your word. But even then a top 4 RHD which could mean a #3 is generally worth a low 1C good 2C. D and right now RHD are worth comparable centers not wingers.

 

[zeke]

Montour would probably put up 70 points on the leafs… I imagine hed be in heaven being on a team that plays offense the way they do... the ducks system doesn't exactly suit him much but hes doing well despite that.

even the offense for Montour is overrated - he got top unit PP time, which he did ok (not great) In, but at even strength he wasn't productive at all:

Even Strength

Manson: 80gms, 7gls, 36pts (7gl/37pt pace)
Lindholm: 69gms, 10gls, 23pts (12gl/27pt pace)
Fowler: 67gms, 6gls, 20pts (7gl/25pt pace)
Montour: 80gms, 3gls, 18pts (3gl/18pt pace)
Beauchemin: 67gms, 3gls, 14pts (3gl/17pt pace)
Bieksa: 59gms, 0gls, 6pts (0gl/8pt pace)

so as productive as beauchemin at even strength.

he did ok with top unit PP time (5gls/12pts), but nothing special.


but he is a very pretty skater.

 

[Hugh Mungus]

That is not true as I want Kapanen on my team.

Lol keep him

If he was any good he'd be a regular in the NHL by now, he reminds me of shinkaruk

 

[howkie]

correct.



Montour and Nylander were similar calibre PLAYERS last year.

the fact that willy was a 21yr old in his 2nd season, though, makes him a much more valuable asset.



Montour has moved slightly ahead due to proving that he can play in the league when he was given a chance at age 23 that Kapanen has yet to be given by age 21. but no, this does not put him in a different class of asset.





age is a critical component of player evaluation.

So, would you trade players who is delivering in NHL for a dime in a dozen prospect that gets hyped up by the other team fanbase?
If you answer yes to this, I expect you to offer Nylander straight up for a overhyped prospect...