Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
I think you missed the "aspires to be" part there. No surprise, though: nuance is clearly not your strength.
Prospect Info: Top Prospects Poll 2019
- Thread starter DaveG
- Start date
you really have to be unable to tolerate even the faintest disagreement if you're going to come to a prospect information thread on a Canes subforum on the Hockey's Future platform and insinuate that frequent posters there have something invested in one of their prospects not prospering.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
We just watched Cotton play in person against our other prospects a month ago. Was he in the top-10 of that group during live gameplay... yeah. Was he markedly better than guys 2-3 years younger than him? Not really. Matt Filipe is the same age and size, and there was nothing to choose between the two of them. Neither was as good as Nick Suzuki, who's considerably younger.
To be 22 years old and not looking like the best player in a pretty average pool of prospects, does not project "future 20 goal scorer in the NHL". Obviously we'd all be thrilled if that happened, obviously we're glad that a low-round pick is still in the conversation and not fallen completely off the board already like most low-round picks would have by now. Nobody is trying to **** on him, a solid AHL player is actually a pretty good return on a 6th rounder. But unless you're saying our prospect pool is absolutely stacked with future studs, the odds are pretty heavily against someone coming from the middle of the pack at a late age and turning into anything other than an injury sub in the NHL.
To be 22 years old and not looking like the best player in a pretty average pool of prospects, does not project "future 20 goal scorer in the NHL". Obviously we'd all be thrilled if that happened, obviously we're glad that a low-round pick is still in the conversation and not fallen completely off the board already like most low-round picks would have by now. Nobody is trying to **** on him, a solid AHL player is actually a pretty good return on a 6th rounder. But unless you're saying our prospect pool is absolutely stacked with future studs, the odds are pretty heavily against someone coming from the middle of the pack at a late age and turning into anything other than an injury sub in the NHL.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
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Who are you and why are you rambling on with all this nonsense on our board?
My Special Purpose
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2008
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There's nothing wrong with Vesey. I've enjoyed watching him get traded for a third-round pick twice, struggle to average under 15 minutes a night, and be generally unable to carve out a regular role on a bad team for the past three seasons. And again, this is Cotton's *upside*.
If I *knew for a fact* that Cotton would have Jimmy Vesey's career, I'd have him ranked around 17th on our prospect list. If anything, I think we just proved we're too high on him.
- Dec 6, 2011
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If you guys disagree so vehemently with this guy and value the opinion so little, seems you should stop engaging. It's certainly clogging this thread up with a prospect we didn't value super highly.
Do you have the list of other players ahead and right behind on that list to share? Is it anything to be excited about? Although that still might not mean much even if he's in good company.
Do you have the list of other players ahead and right behind on that list to share? Is it anything to be excited about? Although that still might not mean much even if he's in good company.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
It's summer. Beating up on tomato cans is just about the only fun to be had this time of year.
- Dec 6, 2011
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I guess if you just need to get it out of your system. But if the other party doesn't care that much, and they seemingly don't, what's the point?
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Looking at the history of these, I think the biggest question for Cotton is exactly what success at BC translates to at the AHL level.
For comparison, in 17-18 Lucas Wallmark, the 2nd leading scorer in Charlotte, scored 55 points in 45 games at age 22. Cotton last year scored 36 points in 39 games at age 21 at BC.
So if you're wondering why Lucas Wallmark was ranked #13 last year vs Cotton's #17, the answer is BC vs Charlotte and a higher PPG. Was Wallmark under-ranked? Probably. But Cotton also hasn't shown that success at that level yet.
And keep in mind, Wallmark translated that success to a 28 point season as a rookie this year. Promising, but Wallmark needs to continue to adjust to the NHL to show he can contribute more in the NHL. Like Wallmark, it's going to take Cotton some time to adjust to professional hockey and see if he can ramp up to a 0.5 PPG player.
Meanwhile, Carolina has Wallmark who appears to be on his way to that already and has proven he can make the transition to the NHL at 23. In addition, Carolina has established AHL forwards (Necas, Geekie, Gauthier, Kuokkanen) and Matteos who followed up a great OHL season with a great AHL playoff run.
There's not much argument to be had about any of the forwards ahead of Cotton on this list. I look at that as a good thing; there's good depth in the system.
For comparison, in 17-18 Lucas Wallmark, the 2nd leading scorer in Charlotte, scored 55 points in 45 games at age 22. Cotton last year scored 36 points in 39 games at age 21 at BC.
So if you're wondering why Lucas Wallmark was ranked #13 last year vs Cotton's #17, the answer is BC vs Charlotte and a higher PPG. Was Wallmark under-ranked? Probably. But Cotton also hasn't shown that success at that level yet.
And keep in mind, Wallmark translated that success to a 28 point season as a rookie this year. Promising, but Wallmark needs to continue to adjust to the NHL to show he can contribute more in the NHL. Like Wallmark, it's going to take Cotton some time to adjust to professional hockey and see if he can ramp up to a 0.5 PPG player.
Meanwhile, Carolina has Wallmark who appears to be on his way to that already and has proven he can make the transition to the NHL at 23. In addition, Carolina has established AHL forwards (Necas, Geekie, Gauthier, Kuokkanen) and Matteos who followed up a great OHL season with a great AHL playoff run.
There's not much argument to be had about any of the forwards ahead of Cotton on this list. I look at that as a good thing; there's good depth in the system.
- Dec 6, 2011
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Uh, yeah. I guess you can take the Anger out of Hank's user name, but you can't take the anger out of Hank.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Lol. That's not anger; it's existential angst. There's a big difference.
So we type on, posts against the current, trolled back ceaselessly into the past
What about Max Zimmer? Huh? IDIOTS
Yes, the takeaway of the Subban trade was that the Preds desperately wanted Jeremy Davies.
Sorta like the conditional 5th round pick Vegas desperately wanted and were willing to give up Erik Haula for.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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The problem with Cotton in Carolina is I see one of two scenarios occurring.
1. He doesn’t have a stellar season and signs with Carolina and is a so-so prospect.
2. He kills it this year and chooses his right to go UFA, because the path to the NHL is easier somewhere else.
While I don’t know him or his intentions, I’ll be surprised, pleasantly though, if he has a stellar season this year and still signs here.
1. He doesn’t have a stellar season and signs with Carolina and is a so-so prospect.
2. He kills it this year and chooses his right to go UFA, because the path to the NHL is easier somewhere else.
While I don’t know him or his intentions, I’ll be surprised, pleasantly though, if he has a stellar season this year and still signs here.
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The only one I have heard of is Berube who was two places ahead of him for GAA.
That is why I threw in the caveat. My guess is the majority of NHL goalies don't spend much, if any, time in the ECHL. Only 4 of the top 10 goalies in sv% in the NHL last season had more than 10 games in any one ECHL season (Campbell, Binnington, Khodobin, Halak).
So yeah, it might not mean much. But Helvig did succeed where he had an opportunity.
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(a) "Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!"
(b) some other purpose
This. A big senior year in the NCAA is a nice ticket to anywhere you want to go in the whole NHL. Cotton did say during an interview he appreciates that the Canes have been very cool about his decision to return to school and encouraged him to do what's best for him, but also what else is he going to say?
The third scenario (not that you'd wish this on anyone) is that he is truly tracking to be a decent NHL player but gets injured next year and therefore doesn't garner much interest around the league.
But it is an interesting phenomenon you've called out here; if you let a guy go to his senior year, you kinda play a game of "we want him to be good, but not that good" all year. Potentially puts you in a position to be actively rooting against your own guy.
My Special Purpose
Registered User
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Sorta, but not really. It would seem obvious that if a guy waits this long, another few months after the college season ends (Aug. 15, 2020) isn't that big a deal. Except that it is. There are a lot of important games between the end of the college season and the beginning of the next NHL/AHL season, and a guy like Cotton could gain a ton of experience.
If his intention has been to pick his team all along, then obviously, this point is moot and he'll do that. But unlike Fox -- even though it was denied, debated, and parsed 1,000 ways to Christmas -- I have heard no rumblings that would suggest this is the case with Cotton. If Cotton's ultimate goal is to play in the NHL, Carolina still has a significant advantage over the other 30 clubs, enabling him to go pro in March and play meaningful -- even high-pressure -- games right away (and benefit from a great many perks, contract/salary-wise). And, if he's really that good this season, and he makes it clear he doesn't want to play here, he could also be traded.
TL;DR? Cotton playing his way into legit prospect status is pretty much a win for us, no matter how it goes down.
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TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
Honestly, Carolina is in a no-lose situation with Cotton IMO. They drafted him in the 6th round! If he has a standout senior season at BC and wants to play for a different team, the Canes can easily trade him to a prospect-poor team for a pick well above where he was drafted at (i.e. maybe a 4th or 5th). If he wants to play for our system still, even better.
Discipline Daddy
Brentcent Van Burns
If Carolina fans really respected Cotton, they would have drafted him in the first. He is a surefire 20G scorer in the NHL and you should have put him as your #1 prospect. I can't wait to sticky this thread and call you out when Cotton becomes the next Ryan Dzingel.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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I’m not sure I agree completely Kev. He may be thinking one thing right now, but if he has a big year, he’s going to have an agent in his ear telling him things which might be totally different. The agent might say that team “x” has less guys in competition, or are in a spot to give him a chance, or are in a better market, etc. none of us know what he’s thinking right now, or who his agent will be, and what the agent will say.
That said, I’m not overly concerned either way, if he signs here, great, if not, so be it.
That said, I’m not overly concerned either way, if he signs here, great, if not, so be it.
NotOpie
"Puck don't lie"
When I look at rosters (granted Charlotte isn't done yet), Cotton's most attractive path would have been to sign an ELC this season. For all of our depth, currently we're a 3C shy down on the farm. Sure, you could throw in Gibbons, but if we had a more viable center, I'd guess he's on the wing. Cotton could have slotted in having a pretty important role on a team that looks like it has a good shot at the post-season again.
The real issue is where does he go from there. Aho, Staal, Wallmark will all be established NHL centers (add Haula if he chooses to re-sign here). As @Boom Boom Apathy says, there are many other teams with easier paths to the show....and this from a guy who really likes Cotton and actually thinks he's got some NHL upside...I just don't see him doing that here at least and until he proves something in the AHL. He's going to have to climb over Bishop, Geekie, and Luostarinen if and when he shows up in Charlotte.
I think Cotton is grateful to the organization....grateful that they are going to give him an easy path to signing with the team that's going to give him the easiest path the the show.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Wow, it's almost like multiple people have seen this guy play and have informed opinions.
Personally, I don't know squat about the guy. I'm forming my options from your smart opinions.
Personally, I don't know squat about the guy. I'm forming my options from your smart opinions.
