Top 50 prospect

[Mrb1p]

Nice list butch.

 

[SRHRangers]

K'Andre Miller?

 

[Butch26]

In the mix for the latest spot

 

[Adam da bomb]

Just happy Heinola is so high vs his draft position.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Nice list, certainly dont agree with all of it but you really seem to do a good job justifying your reasoning behind each ranking and its clear you're not just some internet warrior acting like he knows a lot. You've clearly got a methodology behind the rankings and stick to your guns which deserves respect.


Unfortunately, there's far too many tools and those exact internet warriors on HF Boards who act like they know so much, and come into a thread like this just looking to trash a list or run over the OP. Some of them more obviously then others....


Anyways, like I said I dont agree with every ranking but I think it's a pretty solid list overall with some real spicy takes, but the way you explain your reasoning on pretty much all of them is more then enough to me to give credit. Particularly find the Stutzle/Laf explanation very interesting. I think you're obviously correct that Laf is the better prospect right now hence being the clear #1 for so long... But it's not right now that matters, it's 2-3-4 years down the road when the picture starts to get more clear and I definitely think Stutzle will have a case to be better then Laf by then. One aspect that doesn't get talked about enough here as well IMO is the Canadian bias. When you have an elite prospect like Laf and, then another elite guy like Stutzle, there's always a bias towards the Canadian. It will be interesting to see how much of a bias was at play here and where these two wind up going forward. We've seen it far too many times in the past that high, high end European players from smaller markets get slept on likely due to a lack of exposure, and I definitely wonder if Stutzle doesn't prove to be another one of those cases.

 

[Butch26]

Nice list, certainly dont agree with all of it but you really seem to do a good job justifying your reasoning behind each ranking and its clear you're not just some internet warrior acting like he knows a lot. You've clearly got a methodology behind the rankings and stick to your guns which deserves respect.


Unfortunately, there's far too many tools and those exact internet warriors on HF Boards who act like they know so much, and come into a thread like this just looking to trash a list or run over the OP. Some of them more obviously then others....


Anyways, like I said I dont agree with every ranking but I think it's a pretty solid list overall with some real spicy takes, but the way you explain your reasoning on pretty much all of them is more then enough to me to give credit. Particularly find the Stutzle/Laf explanation very interesting. I think you're obviously correct that Laf is the better prospect right now hence being the clear #1 for so long... But it's not right now that matters, it's 2-3-4 years down the road when the picture starts to get more clear and I definitely think Stutzle will have a case to be better then Laf by then. One aspect that doesn't get talked about enough here as well IMO is the Canadian bias. When you have an elite prospect like Laf and, then another elite guy like Stutzle, there's always a bias towards the Canadian. It will be interesting to see how much of a bias was at play here and where these two wind up going forward. We've seen it far too many times in the past that high, high end European players from smaller markets get slept on likely due to a lack of exposure, and I definitely wonder if Stutzle doesn't prove to be another one of those cases.

I appreciate your comment.

Indeed, in my lists there is always a bias. Not because I want to push Canadians, but they are the ones I see more.
it's always more difficult to see Europeans, but the way I work, I don't have to watch them that much.

I was a scout on the Q last few year, and I don't work like the other. I'm less on details, more on the big picture you know.

I will never said ''He can't take a rim'' or ''he can't win a face-off'' If he can't do that, my job is to evaluate if he had the ability in three year to can do it.

Example: We had a guy one year on our top 40. Small guy, dominate the game with his feet, mobility and his IQ to find space. The way he play was outstanding but was not able to do hard pass, hard shot, one timer etc. It's OK at 15 years old to no be able to do that, some have puberty at 16,17 etc.


But my call is was that he will not be able to put more power on his play. Why? Because his hand was dysfunctional. When he play, his top hand was paste to his body, and his lower hand was in front. He wasn't able to flex his stick because a stick should flex in the opposite way(blade behind top hand)

This is a MAJOR problem. How much I loved his game, how much he skating well, he will not play on PP 1 in three year because his shooting will never improve. He will do the same turnover in 3 year from now, when the puck jump on his stick when he receive a pass because his hand don't work well.

That's how I work. The guy his slow? Ok but, will he be slow in three year?

 

[MuckOG]

I wonder how far outside the top 50 the OP thinks Matt Boldy fits in?

 

[Butch26]

Loving the last clip that I seen him. Looking forward to rise him on my list.

Definitely more intelligent that I thought. I was thinking that he was a Pacioretty look-like, great shooter with good speed but he's more than that. His hand his more effective that I thought too.

I found the last 2 year that he was intelligent when he have time, but he's not able to be intelligent on 3 vs 4, 3 vs 3 , 2 vs 2 etc. I found that he was only able to do some play with time, and Newhook was creating a lot.

 

[Rangers in 7]

as a ranger fan if you want to rank Stutzle higher then laff that is fine, I disagree but whatever.....my main question is you have Raymond higher then Byfield and higher than Kaprizov who is completely dominating the KHL

 

[Butch26]

What is your question? Yeah I have Raymond before Byfield and Kaprizov.

 

[Butch26]

If I go with tier

Tim Stutzle
Alexis Lafrenière
Jamie Drysdale

Trevor Zegras
Lucas Raymond
Quinton Byfield
Dylan Cozens
Bowen Byram
Erik Branstrom
Marco Rossi
Kirill Kaprizov

Cole Caufield
Cole Perfetti
Matias Norlinder
Rasmus Sandin
Alex Turcotte
Barrett Hayton
Filip Zadina
Evan Bouchard
Moritz Seider
Victor Sodestrom

Hendrix Lapierre
Ville Heinola
Vitali Kravstov
Drake Batherson
Alex Newhook
Jake Sandersen
Alex Holtz
Vasili Podkolzin
Timothy Liljegren

 

[WingsMJN2965]

as a ranger fan if you want to rank Stutzle higher then laff that is fine, I disagree but whatever.....my main question is you have Raymond higher then Byfield and higher than Kaprizov who is completely dominating the KHL

That’s true. You can’t deny that Kaprizov’s D+5 KHL season was excellent.

 

[MuckOG]

That’s true. You can’t deny that Kaprizov’s D+5 KHL season was excellent.

Yes, along with his D+1, D+2, D+3, D+4 KHL seasons....then throw in his WJC and Olympics.....they were ALL excellent.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Yes, along with his D+1, D+2, D+3, D+4 KHL seasons....then throw in his WJC and Olympics.....they were ALL excellent.

Never said otherwise. Just get a kick out of the idea that a 23 year old doing really well should be ranked above an 18 year old doing pretty well, considering one is way further along in his development than the other.

 

[MuckOG]

Never said otherwise. Just get a kick out of the idea that a 23 year old doing really well should be ranked above an 18 year old doing pretty well, considering one is way further along in his development than the other.

You can look at it that way, or you can ask yourself how many forward prospects ahead of him on that list would you project to have a better D+1 this season in the KHL than Kaprizov did during his? Maybe Stutzle and Laf, but probably not any others

 

[WingsMJN2965]

You can look at it that way, or you can ask yourself how many prospects ahead of him on that list would you project to have a better D+1 this season in the KHL than Kaprizov did during his?

Half a PPG? Probably a solid handful...

 

[MuckOG]

Half a PPG? Probably a solid handful...

Not likely.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Not likely.

Considering it's a hypothetical, I'll just counter with, "Likely", and we can conclude this conversation.

 

[AKL]

Loving the last clip that I seen him. Looking forward to rise him on my list.

Definitely more intelligent that I thought. I was thinking that he was a Pacioretty look-like, great shooter with good speed but he's more than that. His hand his more effective that I thought too.

I found the last 2 year that he was intelligent when he have time, but he's not able to be intelligent on 3 vs 4, 3 vs 3 , 2 vs 2 etc. I found that he was only able to do some play with time, and Newhook was creating a lot.

How many times did you watch Boldy last season? I don't agree with you at all.

 

[AKL]

Half a PPG? Probably a solid handful...

Well...
Amirov has 8 points in 23 games
Mukhamadullin has 9 points in 31 games
Chinakhov has 15 points in 27 games
Khusnutdinov has 1 point in 11 games
Nikishin has 3 points in 15 games
Groshev has 2 points in 22 games
Trineyev has 0 points in 3 games
Galimov has 9 points in 20 games
Ovchinnikov has 0 points in 5 games
Berezkin has 2 points in 20 games
Gordin has 0 points in 1 game
Zlodeyev has 0 points in 0 games
Pashin has 0 points in 3 games
Marushev has 1 point in 7 games

So 2 out of 14 skaters playing in Russia this season even have a shot at coming close to 27 in 53 in their D+1

Of notable Russian skaters in the recent past:
Podkolzin had 8 points in 30 games (by the way, still only has 6 in 24 this season)
Voronkov had 12 points in 34 games (and 10 in 26 this season)
Denisenko had 6 points in 25 games
Kravtsov had 21 points in 50 games
Marchenko had 0 points in 1 game
Morozov had 0 points in 11 games

Some bigger Russian names:
Tarasenko had 19 points in 42 games
Kucherov had 5 points in 18 games
Panarin had 9 points in 20 games
Malkin had 32 points in 52 games
Ovechkin had 26 points in 37 games
Kuznetsov had 32 points in 44 games
Gusev had 13 points in 30 games

Please though. Go off about how ezpz it is to put up 27 points in 53 games in your D+1

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Well...
Amirov has 8 points in 23 games
Mukhamadullin has 9 points in 31 games
Chinakhov has 15 points in 27 games
Khusnutdinov has 1 point in 11 games
Nikishin has 3 points in 15 games
Groshev has 2 points in 22 games
Trineyev has 0 points in 3 games
Galimov has 9 points in 20 games
Ovchinnikov has 0 points in 5 games
Berezkin has 2 points in 20 games
Gordin has 0 points in 1 game
Zlodeyev has 0 points in 0 games
Pashin has 0 points in 3 games
Marushev has 1 point in 7 games

So 2 out of 14 skaters playing in Russia this season even have a shot at coming close to 27 in 53 in their D+1

Of notable Russian skaters in the recent past:
Podkolzin had 8 points in 30 games (by the way, still only has 6 in 24 this season)
Voronkov had 12 points in 34 games (and 10 in 26 this season)
Denisenko had 6 points in 25 games
Kravtsov had 21 points in 50 games
Marchenko had 0 points in 1 game
Morozov had 0 points in 11 games

Some bigger Russian names:
Tarasenko had 19 points in 42 games
Kucherov had 5 points in 18 games
Panarin had 9 points in 20 games
Malkin had 32 points in 52 games
Ovechkin had 26 points in 37 games
Kuznetsov had 32 points in 44 games
Gusev had 13 points in 30 games

Please though. Go off about how ezpz it is to put up 27 points in 53 games in your D+1

Reading Helps!

You can look at it that way, or you can ask yourself how many forward prospects ahead of him on that list would you project to have a better D+1 this season in the KHL than Kaprizov did during his? Maybe Stutzle and Laf, but probably not any others

He was also nice enough to edit that from how many players ahead of him would do better to how many forwards...

 

[Butch26]

Kaprizov will be a 65-70+ point producer per year.

I like Lucas Raymond a lot. I think he had better hockey sense and slight more dynamic than Kaprizov, but Kaprizov is very more dangerous on odd man play. Raymond is better in tight space and better to create odd man play.

Kaprizov is also 23, 24 year soon. I was hesitating to put him in my top 6-7 because he will play 1-2-3-4-5 less than other guy. I put value on those missing year.

 

[Butch26]

Raymond remind me a little bit of Marian Gaborik. Was young in his prime, but I see some similitude

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

If I go with tier

Tim Stutzle
Alexis Lafrenière
Jamie Drysdale

Trevor Zegras
Lucas Raymond
Quinton Byfield
Dylan Cozens
Bowen Byram
Erik Branstrom
Marco Rossi
Kirill Kaprizov

Cole Caufield
Cole Perfetti
Matias Norlinder
Rasmus Sandin
Alex Turcotte
Barrett Hayton
Filip Zadina
Evan Bouchard
Moritz Seider
Victor Sodestrom

Hendrix Lapierre
Ville Heinola
Vitali Kravstov
Drake Batherson
Alex Newhook
Jake Sandersen
Alex Holtz
Vasili Podkolzin
Timothy Liljegren

What makes you put Drysdale in a tier with Lafreniere and Stutzle?

 

[Pavels Dog]

But still my 7 defenseman in my ranking. All these defenseman have more upside offensively than Seider in my opinion. When I talk about offensive it's not about goal and point but generate odd man rush and beat a player on breakout. Drysdale have definitely this ability . Byram and Seider I could see people why they like more Byram but for me I see in Byram a dominant IQ and mature defenseman with the skating ability to play a lot in a game and make a impact into it. Branstrom his something else about skating and offensive skillset.. Norlinder could bust be he reminds me so much of Quinn Hughes and Rasmus Dahlin that I have to put him above him. I'm gambler so....For Sandin , he had a simple game very efficient. I could see a argument for Seider before him

For me Seider is the Byram, type , a defenseman who will player a lot and a lot in a game but a simple game with more impact in the defensive aspect in the game. I don't say that Seider will not put 40 on board but I feel he will do it in a way of Shea Weber. Shot at the net , produce some rebound etc. Bouchard had a edge on his passing ability. Seider reminds me Dobson.

But again, the vision of a defenseman is different for every people. Some people will like more a Shea Weber ; some people will like more a Heinskane and other one will be liking Quinn Hughes. It's very tricky to rank the defenseman because is not because you think that the 1st option defenseman is better than the third one. In this way , I like more the style of defenseman of Sodestrom but I still ank Seider higher

1. Jamie Drysdale
2. Bowen Byram
3. Erik Branstrom
4. Matias Norlinder
   
5. Rasmus Sandin
6. Evan Bouchard

This is a list of d-men that are not as good as Seider.