TSN: Top 50 players, PK Subban #27, Carey Price #51

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I don't think it's a projection.

I watched the whole show on another monitor, and I couldn't tell you how many times they referred to it as a "projection". Their exact words, repeated often: "projection for the coming season". Also, it was coaches and GMs (basically the professionals who assign values to all these players); not the players, as far as I remember.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I watched the whole show on another monitor, and I couldn't tell you how many times they referred to it as a "projection". Their exact words, repeated often: "projection for the coming season".

Okay. So is it a projection of stats? Or is it where they see these guys as being valued as in: "who's the best?"

 

[overlords]

I take maxpac over a few guys on that list.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Okay. So is it a projection of stats? Or is it where they see these guys as being valued as in: "who's the best?"

That. The list pretty much implies that these guys think trading the guy at 30 to get the guy at 20 makes their team "better" (as much as any one player can), and so on. Stats are obviously only partly relevant when you see guys like Toews and Chara ahead of guys like Kane and Karlsson.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That. The list pretty much implies that these guys think trading the guy at 30 to get the guy at 20 makes their team "better" (as much as any one player can), and so on. Stats are obviously only partly relevant when you see guys like Toews and Chara ahead of guys like Kane and Karlsson.

Okay that's what I thought. Thanks.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I take maxpac over a few guys on that list.

Long term? Sure, I could easily see it. For the next 10 months, though? Tough.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Long term? Sure, I could easily see it. For the next 10 months, though? Tough.

I'd take him over a couple of guys at the bottom of that list. Then again, I'd have Price and Rask ahead of him. Goalies seem to get short thrift in this ranking.

 

[jpchabby]

I don't have Price in a top 5. But top 10. And yet, if he doesn't fix his consistency...he will fall top 15...'cause Fasth and Holtby might be coming. Bernier could finally shine.

Lolwut?

If I had to think about a goalie that could become better and have a better ranking than Price, I would not have thought about Fasth and Holtby. At all.

 

[ZARTONK]

Lolwut?

If I had to think about a goalie that could become better and have a better ranking than Price, I would not have thought about Fasth and Holtby. At all.

I don't even know who Fasth is........

 

[HankyZetts]

Agree, it depends on what you are looking for, but those guys are all effectively interchangable except Suter, who probably isn't even the best D on his team.

What I do think Subban has going to him is his complete game. Him and Doughty are a step ahead of the rest in that sense.

Huh? Brodin is amazing but not there yet. I think Suter is probably #1 for me right now. He is the most complete Dman out there imo.

 

[radicalcenter]

I'm so tired of the Toews hyping now... It's getting so old... The freaking media is actually making me hate a player that I liked. It's not cool.
Toews shouldn't even be in the top 10.

It's a ranking made by coaches and GM's (at least that's what they kept saying during the show) so, for this one time, you can't blame the media for his ranking.

 

[Maxd]

I'm not sure where the over hyping of karlsson began, but I think Sens fans have a lot to do with it. Defensively he leaves a lot to be desired.

I am a sens fan but I'm not here to argue Karlsson's abilities.

Although, I will tell you where the 'over hyping' of Karlsson started. It was in 2011-2012 due to this:

1	Erik Karlsson	OTT	D	81	19	59	[B]78[/B]	+16	
2	Dustin Byfuglien	WPG	D	66	12	41	[B]53[/B]	-8	
3	Brian Campbell	FLA	D	82	4	49	[B]53[/B]	-9	
4	Zdeno Chara	BOS	D	79	12	40	[B]52[/B]	+33	
5	Alex Pietrangelo	STL	D	81	12	39	[B]51[/B]	+16	
6	Shea Weber	NSH	D	78	19	30	[B]49[/B]	+21	
7	Alexander Edler	VAN	D	82	11	38	[B]49[/B]	+0	
8	Dan Boyle	        SJS	D	81	9	39	[B]48[/B]	+10

32% more points than then next closest D man

It has been a long time since that kind of gap existed in the NHL

 

[radicalcenter]

I am a sens fan but I'm not here to argue Karlsson's abilities.

Although, I will tell you where the 'over hyping' of Karlsson started. It was in 2011-2012 due to this:

1	Erik Karlsson	OTT	D	81	19	59	[B]78[/B]	+16	
2	Dustin Byfuglien	WPG	D	66	12	41	[B]53[/B]	-8	
3	Brian Campbell	FLA	D	82	4	49	[B]53[/B]	-9	
4	Zdeno Chara	BOS	D	79	12	40	[B]52[/B]	+33	
5	Alex Pietrangelo	STL	D	81	12	39	[B]51[/B]	+16	
6	Shea Weber	NSH	D	78	19	30	[B]49[/B]	+21	
7	Alexander Edler	VAN	D	82	11	38	[B]49[/B]	+0	
8	Dan Boyle	        SJS	D	81	9	39	[B]48[/B]	+10

32% more points than then next closest D man

It has been a long time since that kind of gap existed in the NHL

But that year Letang and Byfuglien did not play full seasons, and even though chances are Karlsson would have still finished number one, the gap would have been smaller.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But that year Letang and Byfuglien did not play full seasons, and even though chances are Karlsson would have still finished number one, the gap would have been smaller.

Even so man... that's one hell of a gap. And he did it on a team that folks didn't expect to make the playoffs.

As I said earlier, I haven't seen nearly enough of Karlsson to have a real grasp on how good he is. But those totals are impressive.

 

[radicalcenter]

Even so man... that's one hell of a gap. And he did it on a team that folks didn't expect to make the playoffs.

As I said earlier, I haven't seen nearly enough of Karlsson to have a real grasp on how good he is. But those totals are impressive.

I'm not saying this is not impressive because it is, but what I wrote has to be taken into consideration.

 

[Natey]

I love how people are complaining about Price being ranked one of the best goalies and #51. Even going so far as saying it's feeding the delusion.

The only deluded people are the ones who think they know better than coaches and general managers. I'm not saying Price is some kind of god, but it isn't like he has the benefit of a stacked D playing in front of him either. He's accomplished a lot for his age.

If people involved in the game think Price is that good, then maybe some posters here should take a step back and realize maybe, just maybe, those people know better than we do. I'm not a huge Price fan but it's definitely encouraging to see the contrast between the opinions of people who are involved in the NHL (and know hockey) and posters on this forum.

The Price bashing on this forum is overkill. Price may not be a top 5 goalie in the league, but people make it sound like he's completely useless.



Agreed, so doesn't that infer that calling others delusional for thinking Price is good is counter productive in the context of sharing ones opinion? We're all entitled to our opinions and don't deserve to be labeled delusional because we disagree. Especially considering the people who think Price is good are the ones agreeing with professional coaches, scouts and managers. Pretty egotistical to think we know better than they do and then call all of us deluded.

Calling fellow posters delusional is a form of bashing.

Also, if the bottom lines of your post are true, why do we even talk about stuff? Next time a line thread comes up or someone like Darche is overplayed - I don't want to see you complaining since it would be egotistical to think you know better than our coach.

There are lots of posters here who hated the Gomez trade - but I guess Gainey is the pro so it helped buying out Gomez rather than still having Ryan McDonagh in our system. I wonder why we even fired Gainey and Gauthier?

 

[Mrb1p]

Even so man... that's one hell of a gap. And he did it on a team that folks didn't expect to make the playoffs.

As I said earlier, I haven't seen nearly enough of Karlsson to have a real grasp on how good he is. But those totals are impressive.

Buff was on pace for 72 points that year.

 

[Natey]

I don't even know who Fasth is........

Fasth basically turned Hiller into a joke last year. Not literally cause Hiller is solid but Fasth was awesome.

I would agree with that list. Problem when it's time to analyse Price, at least for some people in this board, is that we have to evaluate him NOT based on the defense in front of him or the system, and we automatically have in our minds his great potential. While the other 4 goalies are mostly there based on their own evaluation period. Some will say that Rask is a product of, but I don't agree despite the great system indeed. But technically, I don't think he has a whole lot to envy to Price.

But there are other goalies....and if it's tough to evalute Price based on how "crappy" his teams were...how do you evaluate a goalie based on how great his team is? We mostly
P don't like Crawford's style..but is he way worst? How about Niemi? Or Bobrovsky with his great defense? And Schneider and Luongo? And on another note...how about Anderson? Why no love for Howard? And if Price has all sorts of excuses because of his teams....how about Dubnyk?

I don't have Price in a top 5. But top 10. And yet, if he doesn't fix his consistency...he will fall top 15...'cause Fasth and Holtby might be coming. Bernier could finally shine.

Same. Top-10 isn't that bad anyway, people take it the wrong way.

And Dubnyk is criminally underrated. He's put up better stats on a team way worse than us. I'm not sure who I'd take out of the two, right now, when building a team.

 

[Whitesnake]

Lolwut?

If I had to think about a goalie that could become better and have a better ranking than Price, I would not have thought about Fasth and Holtby. At all.

KEY WORDS in my post....MIGHT BE COMING.

 

[onemorecup*]

I have no issue with Subban being behind Chara, Weber, Doughty, Suter, Karlsson and Keith. Those are big time players.

agreed on pk , and price didnt deserve top 50

 

[jpchabby]

KEY WORDS in my post....MIGHT BE COMING.

Caps Lock all you want, my point is that IMO they won't. They're just not that good.

 

[Kriss E]

I am a sens fan but I'm not here to argue Karlsson's abilities.

Although, I will tell you where the 'over hyping' of Karlsson started. It was in 2011-2012 due to this:

1	Erik Karlsson	OTT	D	81	19	59	[B]78[/B]	+16	
2	Dustin Byfuglien	WPG	D	66	12	41	[B]53[/B]	-8	
3	Brian Campbell	FLA	D	82	4	49	[B]53[/B]	-9	
4	Zdeno Chara	BOS	D	79	12	40	[B]52[/B]	+33	
5	Alex Pietrangelo	STL	D	81	12	39	[B]51[/B]	+16	
6	Shea Weber	NSH	D	78	19	30	[B]49[/B]	+21	
7	Alexander Edler	VAN	D	82	11	38	[B]49[/B]	+0	
8	Dan Boyle	        SJS	D	81	9	39	[B]48[/B]	+10

32% more points than then next closest D man

It has been a long time since that kind of gap existed in the NHL

Buff was on pace for 72Pts. That gap would have been cut to 6pts instead of 25. Heck of a difference if you look at scoring ratios instead of just points. That percentage you speak off is actually just 8%, not 32.

Both years Green finished at the top, he actually had a bigger gap in terms of scoring ratio. So, really, hadn't been that long. It was 2 years before.

But Sens fans like to live in their world, where they think Karlsson has dominated the league like it hasn't been done in ''a long time''. That ''long time'' is actually just 2 years before.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

Say Letang was injured last season and PK played as many games as Suter he would have had a very large lead as well.

 

[Natey]

Lolwut?

If I had to think about a goalie that could become better and have a better ranking than Price, I would not have thought about Fasth and Holtby. At all.

Why not Holtby? His regular season and playoff stars are crazy good. Need to see him do well over a full season now.

 

[Whitesnake]

Caps Lock all you want, my point is that IMO they won't. They're just not that good.

Next time I want to read the future, I'll call you, I promise. 'Cause clearly you know how about Fasth, having seen him play a lot and all....