TSN: Top 50 players, PK Subban #27, Carey Price #51

[Feintastic]

Chara, Weber, and Doughty are all ahead of Subban, yes.

Karlsson? We've been here before. Karlsson is better offensively as Karlsson is ahead of every other blueliner offensively and in the past few years only Mike Green at his best has been anywhere near the same league as Karlsson offensively.

Suter and Keith are overrated, and Subban is better than both of them. Well, Keith is debatable, but his offense is inconsistent and the Keith-Seabrook partnership is more democratic than anyone Subban has played with.

When it comes to Suter, I can confidently say Subban is better. For all the praise he got for his minutes last year, he got slaughtered on possession. By the end of the year he wasn't even the best defender on his team considering how good Brodin looked.

When it comes to Subban the so-called experts have difficulties to give him his props. Placing Karlsson 11th best player in the league is not credible, Subban brings more aspects than Karlsson, so overall he's a better player. Karlsson is a beast offensively but defensively he's a d-man like another, and he's not physical like Subban. They're both good but placing Karlsson 11th and Subban 27th when Subban has the best overall makes no sense at all. But hey these TSN ''experts'' arent in god's shoes they're not right all the time. Its like Chara being the best defenseman... they're on his dick, real talk ! The most ''scary'' to go in the corner with ok, the strongest, but he's so overrated cause he's 7 foot tall.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Chara, Weber, and Doughty are all ahead of Subban, yes.

Karlsson? We've been here before. Karlsson is better offensively as Karlsson is ahead of every other blueliner offensively and in the past few years only Mike Green at his best has been anywhere near the same league as Karlsson offensively.

Suter and Keith are overrated, and Subban is better than both of them. Well, Keith is debatable, but his offense is inconsistent and the Keith-Seabrook partnership is more democratic than anyone Subban has played with.

When it comes to Suter, I can confidently say Subban is better. For all the praise he got for his minutes last year, he got slaughtered on possession. By the end of the year he wasn't even the best defender on his team considering how good Brodin looked.

I have to say, Doughty is freaking awesome in his own end. Just really, really steady. I'd put Subban ahead of him right now but like I said that's a solid list of blueliners there.

Chara and Weber are awesome. The whole package. Subban is a better skater and I'd much rather have him with the puck, but without it the other two are excellent. You get near the goalie and you get a fist in the face from those guys.

 

[Mrb1p]

u know what I mean dont tryna be a smartass

If Price would be as good as some people say he would be in the top50 ! That's it.

Does it means he's not good ? No !

I'm with WTK now, we really need an admission test.

Jonathan Toews is a dominant force in all three zones. You're selling him short.

So is Plekanec. He's not even on the top 100. Kesler is dominant, he's not in the top 100. Backstrom is dominant, he's not in the top 10.(He's in mine however, way higher than Toews.) Kopitar is dominant. Bergeron is dominant.

None of these players are top 3 though, theyre at there place. No one overrates them. Toews plays with the most talented line up in the league (Him being a big part of that, however.) I'm not selling him short, you are selling him long (What?)

For what it's worth, Toews is not the best player by far on his team. When your number 3, you should be.

Chara, Weber, and Doughty are all ahead of Subban, yes.

Karlsson? We've been here before. Karlsson is better offensively as Karlsson is ahead of every other blueliner offensively and in the past few years only Mike Green at his best has been anywhere near the same league as Karlsson offensively.

Suter and Keith are overrated, and Subban is better than both of them. Well, Keith is debatable, but his offense is inconsistent and the Keith-Seabrook partnership is more democratic than anyone Subban has played with.

When it comes to Suter, I can confidently say Subban is better. For all the praise he got for his minutes last year, he got slaughtered on possession. By the end of the year he wasn't even the best defender on his team considering how good Brodin looked.

Subban and Letang did it.

 

[Et le But]

I have to say, Doughty is freaking awesome in his own end. Just really, really steady. I'd put Subban ahead of him right now but like I said that's a solid list of blueliners there.

Chara and Weber are awesome. The whole package. Subban is a better skater and I'd much rather have him with the puck, but without it the other two are excellent. You get near the goalie and you get a fist in the face from those guys.

Chara and Weber are physical beasts. This isn't to take away from their actual hockey skill, since there's a reason guys that tall usually aren't nearly as good, but Subban can never be what they are just because of his height. On the other hand they have weaknesses themselves (Chara can definitely be exposed by certain types of quick players, especially lately), but they are walls and most of the players who actually have the strength to match them don't have the speed or skill to do anything with it. They are both unique, once in a generation players.

I think Subban holds his own against any other defenseman in the league though. To me Subban and Doughty are a step above the competition. Karlsson might be equally as elite because he's so good offensively, but I doubt he will ever be more than "good" in his own end. If any Swede can compare to Subban and Doughty in an all round game it's Ekman-Larsson.

Subban and Letang did it.

Statistically I guess, but Karlsson is genuinely a special player offensively who isn't even in his prime yet, and is already at least as good as Letang defensively. He's a great hockey player, but he genuinely does sacrifice being well rounded for his offense, and for all the complaints that Subban is high risk, Karlsson is much worse. Letang...is basically the poor man's Karlsson.

 

[Mrb1p]

Chara and Weber are physical beasts. This isn't to take away from their actual hockey skill, since there's a reason guys that tall usually aren't nearly as good, but Subban can never be what they are just because of his height. On the other hand they have weaknesses themselves (Chara can definitely be exposed by certain types of quick players, especially lately), but they are walls and most of the players who actually have the strength to match them don't have the speed or skill to do anything with it. They are both unique, once in a generation players.

I think Subban holds his own against any other defenseman in the league though. To me Subban and Doughty are a step above the competition. Karlsson might be equally as elite because he's so good offensively, but I doubt he will ever be more than "good" in his own end. If any Swede can compare to Subban and Doughty in an all round game it's Ekman-Larsson.

Good post Et le but. Another swede that will be there soon is Brodin. I just see it.

And I can definetely tell that Subban was on that level. They're not playing the same kind of game, you rarely see Subban create a play, but the play always goes through him somehow. The combination of heavy shot amd high speed puck control is just too much.

In a way, he reminds me of Lemieux, if you told him to get a dangerous shot on the goalie he would pull it off with ease. I see the same ability in Subban. Remember that last goal on his hat-trick in Minny? That's all him. (I think it was the last one, the one on the PP)

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

For what it's worth, Toews is not the best player by far on his team. When your number 3, you should be.

Um... Kane is 9th on the list, and the only forwards between him and Toews are Ovechkin, Datsyuk, and Stamkos, so I don't think the implication is that there's a big divide there.

 

[Et le But]

Good post Et le but. Another swede that will be there soon is Brodin. I just see it.

I was thinking of including Brodin, but I didn't want to make it sound like I was grouping players by nationality. But even though it's a lazy source of comparisons, both Ekman-Larsson and Brodin have a Lidstrom-esque approach to the game that makes me love watching them. Ekman-Larsson has an underrated physical edge too, Brodin might not have the same all-round potential of OEL but he's freakishly good defensively, that kid is something special.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Chara and Weber are physical beasts. This isn't to take away from their actual hockey skill, since there's a reason guys that tall usually aren't nearly as good, but Subban can never be what they are just because of his height. On the other hand they have weaknesses themselves (Chara can definitely be exposed by certain types of quick players, especially lately), but they are walls and most of the players who actually have the strength to match them don't have the speed or skill to do anything with it. They are both unique, once in a generation players.

I agree, they aren't invincible. Chara just has a dimension to his game that nobody else can match. Weber's kind of Chara light and is a little reminiscent of Chris Pronger. Tough guy to play against. Chara's in a class of his own... but like I said, neither of these guys can do what Pk does with the puck.

And I don't think either one is miles ahead of PK btw. They just have different skill sets. Personally right now I'd take them over PK but Subban could easily become the best in the game if he isn't already.

I think Subban holds his own against any other defenseman in the league though. To me Subban and Doughty are a step above the competition. Karlsson might be equally as elite because he's so good offensively, but I doubt he will ever be more than "good" in his own end. If any Swede can compare to Subban and Doughty in an all round game it's Ekman-Larsson.

I think Doughty is better defensively than Subban is. I don't know what's happened to his offensive game but Doughty is a real special blueliner. I'd rank Subban ahead right now because of the offense but it's really a pick 'em.

I haven't seen almost anything of Karlsson and can't comment on him. I've watched about ten minutes of OEL's career and it has been a human highlight reel. No way he's that good all the time I think I've just been really fortunate to have turned the channel right when he's doing something awesome. So I can understand the hype around him.

The thing about Subban though is that he's been on almost a linear plane of improvement. Watching his first game from the last in 2011-12 was great. And last season he was even better. My only complaint is how he's being coached. He should see a lot more ice and should be used defensively a lot more, esp with what we have to work with right now.

 

[Mrb1p]

Um... Kane is 9th on the list, and the only forwards between him and Toews are Ovechkin, Datsyuk, and Stamkos, so I don't think the implication is that there's a big divide there.

Wait...

So you're telling me... The last hart winner and the two-time Rocket richard winner... are behind Toews?

Well I guess he's not THAT hyped.

It sure does look like a big challenge for someone who was PPG once in his 6 year career.

 

[Mrb1p]

I agree, they aren't invincible. Chara just has a dimension to his game that nobody else can match. Weber's kind of Chara light and is a little reminiscent of Chris Pronger. Tough guy to play against. Chara's in a class of his own... but like I said, neither of these guys can do what Pk does with the puck.

And I don't think either one is miles ahead of PK btw. They just have different skill sets. Personally right now I'd take them over PK but Subban could easily become the best in the game if he isn't already.

I think Doughty is better defensively than Subban is. I don't know what's happened to his offensive game but Doughty is a real special blueliner. I'd rank Subban ahead right now because of the offense but it's really a pick 'em.

I haven't seen almost anything of Karlsson and can't comment on him. I've watched about ten minutes of OEL's career and it has been a human highlight reel. No way he's that good all the time I think I've just been really fortunate to have turned the channel right when he's doing something awesome. So I can understand the hype around him.

The thing about Subban though is that he's been on almost a linear plane of improvement. Watching his first game from the last in 2011-12 was great. And last season he was even better. My only complaint is how he's being coached. He should see a lot more ice and should be used defensively a lot more, esp with what we have to work with right now.

Well, to a certain point Markov and Emelin was a really good pair VS their first line. Every thing was working quite well and Subban was our prime offensive weapon. He's been used much like Malkin was used. But with Emelin out, I think he should get used defensively first. He's a PP point machine, so this will be okay. But if he does, look for a little slump in points, but that doesn't mean P.K. is having a bad year.

 

[Natey]

Price being out of the top50 is another proof he proved nothing at all so far. He has potential for sure but he needs to step his game up.

I have alot of respect for Sidney Crosby but when I heard him saying that Price is the best goalie of the NHL I was laughing my azz off. I think he'll be alot better in the next few years but as we speak right now he's not top5 oh no no ! I wish him a great season.

For P.K Subban we can say 27th best player in the whole league for the 1st time he makes the list isnt bad at all but he's even better than that honestly ! Im a habs fan but I do watch alot of hockey games from other clubs and there's not 10 P.K Subban in this league im just being honest here. That guy does everything. He plays in all situations, he has a canon shot, skating is off the chart, he's really physical he hits hard and score goals. I love Erik Karlsson but overall in no way he's a better D than Subban forget it ! He's maybe more gifted offensively a bit but Subban brings more aspects that's not even a debate.

Price is #51 because of "potential." He's a good goalie, can be great but I'm not sure he's even near the top-5 - especially coming off a season like last year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price is #51 because of "potential." He's a good goalie, can be great but I'm not sure he's even near the top-5 - especially coming off a season like last year.

Poll isn't based on potential man. If it was we'd see a lot of younger players on this list and a guy like Tavares wouldn't be sitting at 13th.

As for Price's season last year... it really wasn't that bad. The numbers look terrible because in two games he gave up something like 10 goals on 15 shots. Unlike skaters, a goalie's stats aren't commulative (except for wins.) He was having a great year and went off the rails for a little while. Normally he'd be able to recover but that's not going to happen in a 48 game season. One bad game can bring your save percentage down a fair bit. When you have a game where you give up 5 goals on 6 shots... it will kill your stats.

He didn't have a bad year, he had a bad few games. But you wouldn't know it by looking at his year end save percentage.

He consistently ranks among the top five in these polls by players and coaches. Not surprising to see him here again.

 

[Natey]

Poll isn't based on potential man. If it was we'd see a lot of younger players on this list and a guy like Tavares wouldn't be sitting at 13th.

As for Price's season last year... it really wasn't that bad. The numbers look terrible because in two games he gave up something like 10 goals on 15 shots. Unlike skaters, a goalie's stats aren't commulative (except for wins.) He was having a great year and went off the rails for a little while. Normally he'd be able to recover but that's not going to happen in a 48 game season. One bad game can bring your save percentage down a fair bit. When you have a game where you give up 5 goals on 6 shots... it will kill your stats.

He didn't have a bad year, he had a bad few games. But you wouldn't know it by looking at his year end save percentage.

He consistently ranks among the top five in these polls by players and coaches. Not surprising to see him here again.

I know it's not based off potential. I'm saying his "skill" is based off potential.

Price, to me, is on a similar level of a guy like Dubnyk. Great goalies. Horrible with softies.

Not sure how you could defend Price's season last year. Even he wouldn't. If we had the Price from so years ago, we'd have been unstoppable.

Price is far too inconsistent to be a top-5 guy, IMO. Top-10? Definitely.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I know it's not based off potential. I'm saying his "skill" is based off potential.

Price, to me, is on a similar level of a guy like Dubnyk. Great goalies. Horrible with softies.

Not sure how you could defend Price's season last year. Even he wouldn't. If we had the Price from so years ago, we'd have been unstoppable.

Price had a terrible stretch... I wouldn't try to defend that. But people are going overboard and extrapolating that to the entire year. We all know that Price, Therrien,MB... would say he has to be better. But the reality is that everyone knows that he had a bad stretch... not a bad year.

Price is far too inconsistent to be a top-5 guy, IMO. Top-10? Definitely.

NHL players and coaches disagree with you. He's consistently in the top five for goalie rankings. Maybe he'll suck this year and fall out but the players have a lot of respect for him and they see what he's playing behind.

And if he doesn't have that four or five game stretch at the end, last season he's a Vezina candidate (not the winner) and his stats look great and we aren't even having his discussion. Like I said, that's the problem with goalie stats. The only one that's cumulative is wins. So if you have a game where you give up five goals on six shots it can ruin your season's save percentage. Esp when it's just a 48 game season. The following night against the Flyers (six goals on 21 shots) he really wasn't that bad. Again though, his numbers look terrible.

The guy has his haters on this board for sure (not saying you're one of them) but I think he's a lot better than he gets credit for here and the players and coaches seem to agree with me. And like I said, I'd actually have him ahead of Bobrovski. I don't know how that guy ranks ahead of him with something like 40 games under his belt.

Maybe he'll have a ****** year... I don't know. I think he'll be good though. If he's bad he'll slip out but I think we could support him a whole lot better than we do.

Anyways, I'll just leave this be. I've said all I can say on the guy. I know some folks disagree with me on him (some will also argue that I'm trying to make excuses) and that's cool. I just think he doesn't get nearly enough respect around here. And while I understand it when folks say he had a bad year... I really don't agree with it.

 

[SB164]

I have a feeling Karlsson's defensive game is going to be even more overrated soon, as many will overlook the purely shutdown game provided by Methot and praise Karlsson instead.

Can you guys imagine if PK had a clear #2 shutdown defenseman such as Methot/Orpik/Seabrook/Bouwmeester/Seidenberg/Suter/Mitchell/Hamhuis/Girardi/Alzner?

MB needs to soon realize that his franchise defenseman needs a steady veteran partner.

 

[CanadienShark]

Brown, Koivu, over Thornton and Marleau? Laughable. Some of the list is good, some is awful.

 

[FlyingKostitsyn]

Defensemen are very underrated in general.

Chara is overrated however. He's ranked above Ovechkin? Cmon now.

I'd probably swap Suter and Subban. I don't think Suter is that good. Weber is overrated too.

 

[MasterDecoy]

21 posts and you made my ignore list. It's a new lap record. Nice to have you back careycosts.

Real men read every posts

 

[MasterDecoy]

I was thinking of including Brodin, but I didn't want to make it sound like I was grouping players by nationality. But even though it's a lazy source of comparisons, both Ekman-Larsson and Brodin have a Lidstrom-esque approach to the game that makes me love watching them. Ekman-Larsson has an underrated physical edge too, Brodin might not have the same all-round potential of OEL but he's freakishly good defensively, that kid is something special.

The Habs need more swedes

 

[KrejciMVP]

I'm very angry with Krejci being at 46. TSN just lost all credibility with me. At least ESPN had him at 24.

 

[habsfanatics*]

It's strange that a Vezina win in a shortened season jumps Bobrovsky ahead of more proven players but a Norris win (also shortened season obviously) by Subban doesn't take him as far. Especially when Subban was a number one D the season before and Bob had a +3GAA and a sub .900 save percentage.

A lot more competition for dman, Price's ranking of 5th is extremely forgiving, especially since his performance was closer to 35th.

Subban is too low, Price is way too high.

 

[Agnostic]

Price is #51 because of "potential." He's a good goalie, can be great but I'm not sure he's even near the top-5 - especially coming off a season like last year.

This list simply keeps alive the Price Delusion. He's not remotely close to being in the top 51.

 

[habsfanatics*]

Chara and Weber are physical beasts. This isn't to take away from their actual hockey skill, since there's a reason guys that tall usually aren't nearly as good, but Subban can never be what they are just because of his height. On the other hand they have weaknesses themselves (Chara can definitely be exposed by certain types of quick players, especially lately), but they are walls and most of the players who actually have the strength to match them don't have the speed or skill to do anything with it. They are both unique, once in a generation players.

I think Subban holds his own against any other defenseman in the league though. To me Subban and Doughty are a step above the competition. Karlsson might be equally as elite because he's so good offensively, but I doubt he will ever be more than "good" in his own end. If any Swede can compare to Subban and Doughty in an all round game it's Ekman-Larsson.



Statistically I guess, but Karlsson is genuinely a special player offensively who isn't even in his prime yet, and is already at least as good as Letang defensively. He's a great hockey player, but he genuinely does sacrifice being well rounded for his offense, and for all the complaints that Subban is high risk, Karlsson is much worse. Letang...is basically the poor man's Karlsson.

I disagree with your evaluations of Letang and karlsson. I think Letang is vastly superior defensively than karlsson. He's physical, he's great at moving the puck, he's decent positionally, but like most puck movers is prone to the odd gaffe.

I'm not sure where the over hyping of karlsson began, but I think Sens fans have a lot to do with it. Defensively he leaves a lot to be desired.

It reminds of leaf fans pumping the tires of kaberle all those years attempting to put him on equal footing with markov. When you've had little to cheer about fan bases tend to get excited over their players even if they're not the be all-end all. Most Sens fans think he's a lock to win the Norris every year he plays and there is no competition for the trophy unless he's hurt. It's completely ridiculous and many fans from other teams have been told this so often they are starting to believe it.

There are a half-dozen guys I would take immediately over karlsson, now, if I was building for the future he would be top 3.

 

[CP31]

This list simply keeps alive the Price Delusion. He's not remotely close to being in the top 51.

Keep thinking that

 

[sharks9]

This list simply keeps alive the Price Delusion. He's not remotely close to being in the top 51.

Yes, the GMs and coaches are the ones who consistently rate Price very highly are totally delusional. Good thing you know way more than them