TSN: Top 50 players, PK Subban #27, Carey Price #51

[Natey]

Yes, the GMs and coaches are the ones who consistently rate Price very highly are totally delusional. Good thing you know way more than them

This is a forum - the poster is allowed to have his opinion. If everyone agreed, this place would be pretty boring.

 

[ZARTONK]

We have two players in the top 51 in a league with 30 teams, we're above average!

 

[CP31]

We have two players in the top 51 in a league with 30 teams, we're above average!

The one is awful and just there because of potential though so it doesnt count

 

[Monctonscout]

When it comes to Subban the so-called experts have difficulties to give him his props. Placing Karlsson 11th best player in the league is not credible, Subban brings more aspects than Karlsson, so overall he's a better player. Karlsson is a beast offensively but defensively he's a d-man like another, and he's not physical like Subban. They're both good but placing Karlsson 11th and Subban 27th when Subban has the best overall makes no sense at all. But hey these TSN ''experts'' arent in god's shoes they're not right all the time. Its like Chara being the best defenseman... they're on his dick, real talk ! The most ''scary'' to go in the corner with ok, the strongest, but he's so overrated cause he's 7 foot tall.

Karlsson is massively overrated. He is a defenseman in name only, looks like a 12 year old girl and plays that way without the puck.

 

[MasterDecoy]

Bashing karlsson is 2011....

 

[Price My Man Crush]

Bashing karlsson is 2011....

The bashing Subban gets is worse.

 

[Habs Icing]

This list simply keeps alive the Price Delusion. He's not remotely close to being in the top 51.

I know you agree with me on your assessment of Price so I'm not picking on you but where did you see Price at 51? I know Duthie mentioned it but something tells me he was just yanking our chain. The list ends at 50. TSN knows the Montreal TV market represents the 2nd or 3rd largest market after TO and maybe Vancouver, no way are they are gonna alienate this market so that's why he went out of his way to say Price is 51. BS!

If this list is based on something substantial as their play the last few years there's no effing way Price should be ahead of Rask, Luongo, Crawford, Howard or even Anderson. Price is not the 5th best goalie in the league. He may not even be the 5th best in the east.

But if they base their ratings on something as flimsy as "potential" well a few years ago we all knew that Latendresse was the best power forward in the league. How did that work out?

And just to show I'm not a Habs basher, I think Subban was underrated in this poll. I would take him ahead of Karlsson anytime. Karlsson may be a little more offensively talented but Subban leaves him eating his dust when it comes to defensive play and physicality. Karlsson is a black hole on defense . i thought last year's playoffs proved as much. But i guess the GMs who participated in this poll didn't watch the playoffs

 

[ZARTONK]

The one is awful and just there because of potential though so it doesnt count

The what?

 

[CP31]

I know you agree with me on your assessment of Price so I'm not picking on you but where did you see Price at 51? I know Duthie mentioned it but something tells me he was just yanking our chain. The list ends at 50. TSN knows the Montreal TV market represents the 2nd or 3rd largest market after TO and maybe Vancouver, no way are they are gonna alienate this market so that's why he went out of his way to say Price is 51. BS!

Read the article bud... It includes like 5 guys who just missed.

 

[ZARTONK]

When it comes to Subban the so-called experts have difficulties to give him his props. Placing Karlsson 11th best player in the league is not credible, Subban brings more aspects than Karlsson, so overall he's a better player. Karlsson is a beast offensively but defensively he's a d-man like another, and he's not physical like Subban. They're both good but placing Karlsson 11th and Subban 27th when Subban has the best overall makes no sense at all. But hey these TSN ''experts'' arent in god's shoes they're not right all the time. Its like Chara being the best defenseman... they're on his dick, real talk ! The most ''scary'' to go in the corner with ok, the strongest, but he's so overrated cause he's 7 foot tall.

The ranking was done by coaches and gm's, not TSN experts...

 

[Habs Icing]

Read the article bud... It includes like 5 guys who just missed.

You should read the article. It doesn't say who just missed, It says who is missing. Not the same thing bud.

 

[ZARTONK]

You should read the article. It doesn't say who just missed, It says who is missing. Not the same thing bud.

Ummm
"Just missing the Top 50 was Montreal Canadiens goalie Carey Price, who was ranked No. 51."

 

[Agnostic]

You should read the article. It doesn't say who just missed, It says who is missing. Not the same thing bud.

Paragraph 4

 

[Riddum]

Wow, the list is an absolutely joke. St.Louis at 26? Please go.

 

[Nedved]

Chara, Weber, and Doughty are all ahead of Subban, yes.

Karlsson? We've been here before. Karlsson is better offensively as Karlsson is ahead of every other blueliner offensively and in the past few years only Mike Green at his best has been anywhere near the same league as Karlsson offensively.

Suter and Keith are overrated, and Subban is better than both of them. Well, Keith is debatable, but his offense is inconsistent and the Keith-Seabrook partnership is more democratic than anyone Subban has played with.

When it comes to Suter, I can confidently say Subban is better. For all the praise he got for his minutes last year, he got slaughtered on possession. By the end of the year he wasn't even the best defender on his team considering how good Brodin looked.

those 7dman are interchangeable on any night, or any year. I don't think it's a knock at subban and there are a couple behind subban that could potentially have a better year.

as far as I'm concerned, there's no above all dman in the league..like a lidstrom.

 

[jpchabby]

Ummm
"Just missing the Top 50 was Montreal Canadiens goalie Carey Price, who was ranked No. 51."

I guess that's a very complicated sentence bro...

Seems pretty clear to me, but apparently it isn't

 

[Et le But]

those 7dman are interchangeable on any night, or any year. I don't think it's a knock at subban and there are a couple behind subban that could potentially have a better year.

as far as I'm concerned, there's no above all dman in the league..like a lidstrom.

Agree, it depends on what you are looking for, but those guys are all effectively interchangable except Suter, who probably isn't even the best D on his team.

What I do think Subban has going to him is his complete game. Him and Doughty are a step ahead of the rest in that sense.

 

[Devourers]

I love how people are complaining about Price being ranked one of the best goalies and #51. Even going so far as saying it's feeding the delusion.

The only deluded people are the ones who think they know better than coaches and general managers. I'm not saying Price is some kind of god, but it isn't like he has the benefit of a stacked D playing in front of him either. He's accomplished a lot for his age.

If people involved in the game think Price is that good, then maybe some posters here should take a step back and realize maybe, just maybe, those people know better than we do. I'm not a huge Price fan but it's definitely encouraging to see the contrast between the opinions of people who are involved in the NHL (and know hockey) and posters on this forum.

The Price bashing on this forum is overkill. Price may not be a top 5 goalie in the league, but people make it sound like he's completely useless.

This is a forum - the poster is allowed to have his opinion. If everyone agreed, this place would be pretty boring.

Agreed, so doesn't that infer that calling others delusional for thinking Price is good is counter productive in the context of sharing ones opinion? We're all entitled to our opinions and don't deserve to be labeled delusional because we disagree. Especially considering the people who think Price is good are the ones agreeing with professional coaches, scouts and managers. Pretty egotistical to think we know better than they do and then call all of us deluded.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Wait...

So you're telling me... The last hart winner and the two-time Rocket richard winner... are behind Toews?

Well I guess he's not THAT hyped.

It sure does look like a big challenge for someone who was PPG once in his 6 year career.

Well, I wouldn't say that I am telling you anything, really. This is a poll among a selection of NHL coaches and GMs based on projections for the coming season. Shows that they're pretty consistent in valuing guys with highly developed 2-way games over guys who are capable of scoring slightly more points (Crosby over Malkin, Toews over Kane), but they're also fairly skeptical of older guys who were still going strong last year like St. Louis and Thornton (who ranks in after Couture, but still ahead of unlisted Marleau). Kane has jumped up to 9th from somewhere in the low 30s on last year's TSN panelist edition, though, so at least we know that the coaches/GMs value him more than them.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Not gonna speak about the rest of it, but as far as goalie rankings go.

Quick should be ahead of Lundqvist.
Bobrovsky should be no where near the list because of one season. Rask should be in his spot.
Price would remain where he is.

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Price

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I'm very angry with Krejci being at 46. TSN just lost all credibility with me. At least ESPN had him at 24.

Tough call for him. He obviously has to fit in after Bergeron, because come on, but I think he should have appeared ahead of Lucic. Not necessarily in the 30s, mind you (quite a few goalies and defensemen had to get spots in there, too), but definitely ahead of the guy who depends more on guys like Bergeron/Krejci to make his offensive game relevant than the other way around.

edit: and oh yeah, it was NHL coaches and GMs, not TSN, so don't shoot the messenger!

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Not gonna speak about the rest of it, but as far as goalie rankings go.

Quick should be ahead of Lundqvist.
Bobrovsky should be no where near the list because of one season. Rask should be in his spot.
Price would remain where he is.

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Price

You're confused if you think this is a career appreciation ranking. It's a projection laden with undertones of "value". You probably can't reason out any of your "should" statements any better than they could defend their assessment in this case.

 

[CanadienShark]

I'm very angry with Krejci being at 46. TSN just lost all credibility with me. At least ESPN had him at 24.

Wasn't it 14 NHL coaches and GMs?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You're confused if you think this is a career appreciation ranking. It's a projection laden with undertones of "value". You probably can't reason out any of your "should" statements any better than they could defend their assessment in this case.

I don't think it's a projection. I think the players were asked who the best player are. "Projections" to me sounds more like what the stats will be like. Maybe it's an issue of semantics though.

I agree that it's not a career appreciation ranking though. It's a value judgement based on who they think is the best right now. One thing to consider though would be... how much bias goes into this? How much of this is "I don't like that guy so I'll vote him lower"? I think Price is held in high respect and I don't think it's the same for PK. Lots of guys hate playing against him and that probably works against him in the case of ranking here.

Again though... not a big deal. Even if he is "only" the 7th best blueliner it's clear that he belongs here (though I'd have him higher.) I look at a guy like Kessel who barely makes the list. I know he's one dimensional but I don't get that one... esp when Parise's up there in the 20s. Some surprising results in this for sure and the ones I'm most surprised with is Toews at 3 ahead of Stamkos and Tavares all the way down at 13th. I'm also surprised to see the goalies ranked so low. Lundqvist at 14th? Wow.

 

[Whitesnake]

Not gonna speak about the rest of it, but as far as goalie rankings go.

Quick should be ahead of Lundqvist.
Bobrovsky should be no where near the list because of one season. Rask should be in his spot.
Price would remain where he is.

Quick
Lundqvist
Rinne
Rask
Price

I would agree with that list. Problem when it's time to analyse Price, at least for some people in this board, is that we have to evaluate him NOT based on the defense in front of him or the system, and we automatically have in our minds his great potential. While the other 4 goalies are mostly there based on their own evaluation period. Some will say that Rask is a product of, but I don't agree despite the great system indeed. But technically, I don't think he has a whole lot to envy to Price.

But there are other goalies....and if it's tough to evalute Price based on how "crappy" his teams were...how do you evaluate a goalie based on how great his team is? We mostly don't like Crawford's style..but is he way worst? How about Niemi? Or Bobrovsky with his great defense? And Schneider and Luongo? And on another note...how about Anderson? Why no love for Howard? And if Price has all sorts of excuses because of his teams....how about Dubnyk?

I don't have Price in a top 5. But top 10. And yet, if he doesn't fix his consistency...he will fall top 15...'cause Fasth and Holtby might be coming. Bernier could finally shine.