Top 5 centers in the NHL?

[Alivesi]

Not really, considering Matthews getting 7-10 more goals than another center doesn't compensate for him getting outscored by 10+ points by a lot of guys or going up against guys with a longer track record of success.

This.. as much as I love Stamkos, even in his 60 goal year, as a center in the NHL he wasn't the best even with him leading in ES goals, there is more to being a center than scoring goals, which is why Malkin won the hart (he even had 48 ES goals versus Malkin's 50 year total).

Leafs fans are on another level right now..

 

[The List Of Jericho]

One centre outscored him goals wise and he had the most goals at even strength of any player in the league. While he may not be top 5 right now, he'll be there sooner rather than later.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

This.. as much as I love Stamkos, even in his 60 goal year, as a center in the NHL he wasn't the best even with him leading in ES goals, there is more to being a center than scoring goals, which is why Malkin won the hart (he even had 48 ES goals versus Malkin's 50 year total).

Leafs fans are on another level right now..

You do realize that Matthews two way play is severely underrated right

 

[Atomos2]

I get it, you're a Leafs fan. You're going to try to justify it any way you can because you like the Leafs. But let's be honest, you know this is a crap argument. Like come on. This is obviously not what I said, you're just creating strawman BS because you know you don't have a legitimate argument here.

If secondary assists were so easy to get, why did Matthews only have 29 assists last year?

Because despite Zach Hyman being set up for one of the most high danger scoring chances last year (top 10) he failed to convert on most of them.

As for the rest of your post. 40 goals is 40 goals. Only one other center was capable of doing that this year. Fact.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Sidney Crosby?

Matthews has no business being mentioned in this thread. He's not better than any of Getzlaf, Bergeron, Toews, Seguin, McDavid, Barkov, Kopitar, Tavares, Crosby, Malkin, Scheifele or Backstrom.

You can't be serious, half the guys you listed had horrible seasons and some finally broke out after years of hum hum results(Scheifele)...Matthews as a rookie finished 11 in Hart voting lol

 

[Alivesi]

You do realize that Matthews two way play is severely underrated right

Sure by a lot of people who aren't fans of any team in the division, also you do realize that Matthews two way play is severely overrated by leafs fans right?

Also not to mention, voting isn't done in some objective way, not dismissing the results completely, but seriously you have a bigger chance to get votes if you play for a big market team, ESPECIALLY like Toronto

 

[Empoleon8771]

Even if you take out primary points, here are the top-10 PPGs of centers last season:

1. Crosby: 72 primary points in 75 games
2. Malkin: 59 primary points in 62 games
3. McDavid: 74 primary points in 82 games
4. Scheifele: 59 primary points in 79 games
5. Matthews: 60 primary points in 82 games
5. Draisaitl: 60 primary points in 82 games
7. Getzlaf: 53 primary points in 74 games
8. Eichel: 43 primary points in 61 games
9. Barkov: 42 primary points in 61 games
10. Backstrom: 55 primary points in 82 games


In an analysis which is biased towards goal scorers and arbitrarily cuts out real life points, Matthews barely beats out a playmaker who had 15 goals last year in Getzlaf (.73 to .71). He's below or tied with Scheifele and Draisaitl, and I haven't noticed many Jets fans or Oilers fans saying those guys are top-5 centers in hockey. The difference between Matthews (.73) and Backstrom (.67) isn't big enough to ignore the 17 point difference between the two or Backstrom's history of success.

Because despite Zach Hyman being set up for one of the most high danger scoring chances last year (top 10) he failed to convert on most of them.

As for the rest of your post. 40 goals is 40 goals. Only one other center was capable of doing that this year. Fact.

29 assists is 29 assists. Only 52 other centers were capable of doing that this year.

That's about as relevant as you mentioning goals.

You can't be serious, half the guys you listed had horrible seasons and some finally broke out after years of hum hum results(Scheifele)...Matthews as a rookie finished 11 in Hart voting lol

And again, mentioning Hart voting just shows how little of an argument you actually have here. How do you know it wasn't just some Leafs homers who got to vote for the Hart that voted him 3rd? Mentioning award finishes when they're not even close to finalist positions is just an incredible reach, and you're only doing it because you don't hav a serious argument.

And the fact that those guys had horrible seasons doesn't make them worse players than Matthews. Those guys have a track record that Matthews flat out doesn't have, just because he hasn't been in the league long enough. I'd be willing to bet that "75 point Selke winner" Kopitar is more likely to be back next year than "52 point minus player" Kopitar.

 

[Atomos2]

Leafs fans are in their prime right now. First Matthews>McDavid and now this??

HF haters in their prime.

First Nylander and Marner were future Sam Gagners and now this??

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Sure by a lot of people who aren't fans of any team in the division, also you do realize that Matthews two way play is severely overrated by leafs fans right?

Top 5 in takeaways for the entire league for a rookie isn't to shabby.

 

[Atomos2]

Even if you take out primary points, here are the top-10 PPGs of centers last season:

1. Crosby: 72 primary points in 75 games
2. Malkin: 59 primary points in 62 games
3. McDavid: 74 primary points in 82 games
4. Scheifele: 59 primary points in 79 games
5. Matthews: 60 primary points in 82 games
5. Draisaitl: 60 primary points in 82 games
7. Getzlaf: 53 primary points in 74 games
8. Eichel: 43 primary points in 61 games
9. Barkov: 42 primary points in 61 games
10. Backstrom: 55 primary points in 82 games


In an analysis which is biased towards goal scorers and arbitrarily cuts out real life points, Matthews barely beats out a playmaker who had 15 goals last year in Getzlaf (.73 to .71). He's below or tied with Scheifele and Draisaitl, and I haven't noticed many Jets fans or Oilers fans saying those guys are top-5 centers in hockey. The difference between Matthews (.73) and Backstrom (.67) isn't big enough to ignore the 17 point difference between the two or Backstrom's history of success.



29 assists is 29 assists. Only 52 other centers were capable of doing that this year.

That's about as relevant as you mentioning goals.

Live and die by those secondary assists man lol. Now do a goal total.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Live and die by those secondary assists man lol. Now do a goal total.

I took out the secondary assists and Matthews barely came into the top-5, barely beating out a playmaker who had 15 goals. Why quote my post if you're not going to read them?

It's really sad that your arguments stem on getting a pity vote in the Hart race or getting rid of points that exist. I thought just reading them would make you think "huh, maybe I'm wrong here", but I guess not.

I find the logic of crapping on secondary assists to be funny. Since secondary assists are so easy to get and Matthews can't get him, Matthews must suck, no? Yep, that's the conclusion we're going to run with. Matthews sucks because he can't get secondary assists, Leafs fans told me.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Even if you take out primary points, here are the top-10 PPGs of centers last season:

1. Crosby: 72 primary points in 75 games
2. Malkin: 59 primary points in 62 games
3. McDavid: 74 primary points in 82 games
4. Scheifele: 59 primary points in 79 games
5. Matthews: 60 primary points in 82 games
5. Draisaitl: 60 primary points in 82 games
7. Getzlaf: 53 primary points in 74 games
8. Eichel: 43 primary points in 61 games
9. Barkov: 42 primary points in 61 games
10. Backstrom: 55 primary points in 82 games


In an analysis which is biased towards goal scorers and arbitrarily cuts out real life points, Matthews barely beats out a playmaker who had 15 goals last year in Getzlaf (.73 to .71). He's below or tied with Scheifele and Draisaitl, and I haven't noticed many Jets fans or Oilers fans saying those guys are top-5 centers in hockey. The difference between Matthews (.73) and Backstrom (.67) isn't big enough to ignore the 17 point difference between the two or Backstrom's history of success.



29 assists is 29 assists. Only 52 other centers were capable of doing that this year.

That's about as relevant as you mentioning goals.



And again, mentioning Hart voting just shows how little of an argument you actually have here. How do you know it wasn't just some Leafs homers who got to vote for the Hart that voted him 3rd? Mentioning award finishes when they're not even close to finalist positions is just an incredible reach, and you're only doing it because you don't hav a serious argument.

And the fact that those guys had horrible seasons doesn't make them worse players than Matthews. Those guys have a track record that Matthews flat out doesn't have, just because he hasn't been in the league long enough. I'd be willing to bet that "75 point Selke winner" Kopitar is more likely to be back next year than "52 point minus player" Kopitar.

So you come up with excuses for guys like Getzlaf yet fail to mention that Matthews scored 40 goals playing with two rookies all year which is unheard of. If you actually believe that Matthews wouldn't have had even more points without Hyman on that line all year than I don't what to tell you. Ask any unbiased fan, a better line mate and Matthews finishes PPG in his rookie season. Anyone can see that Toews is past it btw.

Leaf homers represent 30 NHL clubs? Must be a ton considering the voting is spread equally around the league.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So you come up with excuses for guys like Getzlaf yet fail to mention that Matthews scored 40 goals playing with two rookies all year which is unheard of. If you actually believe that Matthews wouldn't have had even more points without Hyman on that line all year than I don't what to tell you. Ask any unbiased fan, a better linemate and Matthews finished PPG in his rookie season.

What excuses did I come up with for Getzlaf? Did you read my post? I said that Matthews barely outproduced Getzlaf in an analysis that is biased towards goal scorers and arbitrarily takes away real points.

And I find it funny that you're getting mad at me about "using excuses" for Getzlaf, only to whine and make excuses for Matthews. I'm an unbiased fan here and no, having a better linemate wouldn't have made him a PPG player this year. And I also like how you said Matthews putting up 40 goals with 2 rookies is unheard of, as if Crosby didn't put up 40 goals with essentially 2 rookies for a lot of the year.

Leaf homers represent 30 NHL clubs? Must be a ton considering the voting is spread equally around the league.

Matthews got 7 votes for the Hart, 4 of which were 5th place votes. So yeah, it's entirely possible that those 7 people were Leafs homers. If we assume each team has the same amount of Hart votes (which obviously isn't true), that's really not far off from being possible, each team would only have like 6 votes.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

I took out the secondary assists and Matthews barely came into the top-5, barely beating out a playmaker who had 15 goals. Why quote my post if you're not going to read them?

It's really sad that your arguments stem on getting a pity vote in the Hart race or getting rid of points that exist. I thought just reading them would make you think "huh, maybe I'm wrong here", but I guess not.

I find the logic of crapping on secondary assists to be funny. Since secondary assists are so easy to get and Matthews can't get him, Matthews must suck, no? Yep, that's the conclusion we're going to run with. Matthews sucks because he can't get secondary assists, Leafs fans told me.

You're a great spin artist..."barely top 5" "beating out a playmaker" you would be a great politician. Do us all a favor watch some Leafs games next year and actually watch the kid play.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You're a great spin artist..."barely top 5" "beating out a playmaker" you would be a great politician. Do us all a favor watch some Leafs games next year and actually watch the kid play.

So is what I said not true? Everything I'm saying is true. He was barely in the top-5 because he was tied for 5th place with Draisaitl. He did beat out a playmaker by .06 primary points/82 games in an analysis biased towards goal scorers. The fact that you can't rebut it and have to resort to "YOU GUTTA WATCH HIM!!!" shows me you don't really have an argument here. But what else is new from Leafs fans in this thread

Here's a thought, when everyone else is telling you that you're wrong, you're probably wrong.

 

[Atomos2]

I took out the secondary assists and Matthews barely came into the top-5, barely beating out a playmaker who had 15 goals. Why quote my post if you're not going to read them?

It's really sad that your arguments stem on getting a pity vote in the Hart race or getting rid of points that exist. I thought just reading them would make you think "huh, maybe I'm wrong here", but I guess not.

I find the logic of crapping on secondary assists to be funny. Since secondary assists are so easy to get and Matthews can't get him, Matthews must suck, no? Yep, that's the conclusion we're going to run with. Matthews sucks because he can't get secondary assists, Leafs fans told me.

A pity vote in the hart race to the NHL 2nd goal scoring leader. The guy who took his team to the playoffs after being last in the league the year before. Yea let's give him a pity vote lol. Hyman had a very low shooting pct which isn't surprising for a bottom 6 rookie, but the number of scoring chances Matthews generated for Hyman would've significantly increased his point totals. It's not that much of a surprise that Matthews has the lowest on ice shooting percentage of most of the top centres being brought up. It was just bad luck statistically.

 

[supeg93*]

And yet, your team still hasn't caught up

Caught up to what? Since the Oilers entered the league they are the most successful team with the most cups.

Cups with 6 teams in the league do not count in my eyes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A pity vote in the hart race to the NHL 2nd goal scoring leader. The guy who took his team to the playoffs after being last in the league the year before. Yea let's give him a pity vote lol. Hyman had a very low shooting pct which isn'tsurprising for a bottom 6 rookie, but the number of scoring chances Matthews generated for Hyman would've significantly increased his point totals. It's not that much of a surprise that Matthews has the lowest on ice shooting percentage of most of the top centres being brought up. It was just bad luck statistically.

He got 2 3rd place votes, a 4th place vote and 4 5th place votes. Those are literally pity votes. The "even though you have no business of being here, I'm still going to reward you for a good season" votes. That's what those are.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

What excuses did I come up with for Getzlaf? Did you read my post? I said that Matthews barely outproduced Getzlaf in an analysis that is biased towards goal scorers and arbitrarily takes away real points.

And I find it funny that you're getting mad at me about "using excuses" for Getzlaf, only to whine and make excuses for Matthews. I'm an unbiased fan here and no, having a better linemate wouldn't have made him a PPG player this year. And I also like how you said Matthews putting up 40 goals with 2 rookies is unheard of, as if Crosby didn't put up 40 goals with essentially 2 rookies for a lot of the year.



Matthews got 7 votes for the Hart, 4 of which were 5th place votes. So yeah, it's entirely possible that those 7 people were Leafs homers. If we assume each team has the same amount of Hart votes (which obviously isn't true), that's really not far off from being possible, each team would only have like 6 votes.

Right, he accomplished a feat that the best player in the world did in his rookie year. I love how you have a crystal ball, so if I stick Mitch Marner with Matthews all year, he gets the same points as with Hyman, sure, that's real believable.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Right, he accomplishment a feat that the best player in the world did in his rookie year. I love how you have a crystal ball, so if I stick Mitch Marner with Matthews all year, he gets the same points as with Hyman, sure, that's real believable.

I guess saying "he wouldn't be a PPG" means "he wouldn't get any increase from playing with better players" now. Good to know.

This thread is fun. Strawman after strawman, crap argument after crap argument in defense of the goal scorer. It's like I'm reading a Crosby vs Ovechkin thread from like 2014.

 

[Belieber]

Anyone that doesn't list Getzlaf goes to bed too early.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

He got 2 3rd place votes, a 4th place vote and 4 5th place votes. Those are literally pity votes. The "even though you have no business of being here, I'm still going to reward you for a good season" votes. That's what those are.

Wow just wow, that doesn't sound bias at all. I'm sure you would have given Dumolin the Norris

 

[Empoleon8771]

Wow just wow, that doesn't sound bias at all. I'm sure you would have given Dumolin the Norris

I guess saying "he wouldn't be a PPG" means "he wouldn't get any increase from playing with better players" now. Good to know.

This thread is fun. Strawman after strawman, crap argument after crap argument in defense of the goal scorer. It's like I'm reading a Crosby vs Ovechkin thread from like 2014.

Welp looks like we'll add another one to the bucket.

Seriously, what does me being a Penguins fan have to do with anything? I'm not talking about Matthews vs Malkin or Matthews vs Crosby, I'm literally just talking about Matthews. What possible sort of bias goes against Matthews from me being a Penguins fan?

 

[The List Of Jericho]

I guess saying "he wouldn't be a PPG" means "he wouldn't get any increase from playing with better players" now. Good to know.

This thread is fun. Strawman after strawman, crap argument after crap argument in defense of the goal scorer. It's like I'm reading a Crosby vs Ovechkin thread from like 2014.

Dude, he missed PPG by 13 points your telling me he doesn't get that with Marner lol

 

[Atomos2]

He got 2 3rd place votes, a 4th place vote and 4 5th place votes. Those are literally pity votes. The "even though you have no business of being here, I'm still going to reward you for a good season" votes. That's what those are.

Can't be that much of a pity vote when he scored more goals than any other centre except Crosby. To me its more like the "you scored more goals than any other player except Crosby and you have the most even strength goals in the league and you took your team to the playoffs while leading them in goals, so yeah, maybe your value to your team deserves a vote for most valuable player to his team" vote