I would suggest having Matias Sointu at least public under. He has played over 1ppg in A-juniors SM-liiga(finnish highest junior level). Compared to Rask who have been a lot worse than Sointu. Sointu has 27games and 33points. Rask having 20games and just 15points(comparasion Toni Rajala has 21points in 20games). Rask is maybe a bit better total package, but Sointu clearly has offensive talent to do serious damage, maybe even in NHL. That's just about seeing both of them 10+ times.
Top 30 for 2008
- Thread starter Velociraptor
- Start date
Good points. Actually I never said I don't like Grachev. It's just strange to me that he's alrady a mid first rounder on some lists, when he is pretty unknown in Russia, that is so similar to the Rise of Mayorov last year, it's not even funny.
Velociraptor
Registered User
not a fan of nemisz either but hes got some talent. Tessier has 43 pts, not bad. but stefanovich and petit are rated higher than him on prelims.
CertifiedPublicGuin
Registered User
- Oct 21, 2005
- 5,154
- 36
It's true. I think there's something about the mysterious Russians that makes people want to push them and push them up their rankings as much as possible, and I'm not criticizing the poster for doing that, because I actually like his list, as it is a bit different. Plus I'm high on Grachev, but I don't think he'll come anywhere near the top 15 or 20. I do think he can be a late first rounder though, and I love his style of play a lot. He looked like a good two-way player; defensively conscious, but with very good offensive skill.
I liked Mayorov last year, but mostly off of hearsay. Mayorov has skill and a big body, but that's really all I see... I think Grachev is a whole lot different.
Then again, he too is Russian, which means he could end up anywhere from the 20-30 area to 5th round.
Velociraptor
Registered User
Del Zotto nearly as safe as Schenn? Goodness. I couldn't let that one slide. Wholly disagree.
Who's to say all those guys will be way better than Schenn offensively? I think Schenn's offensive game is underrated as well.
90 per cent of the time a defenceman's main job is to defend. If you're better than everyone else at it, that to me makes you a pretty valuable defenceman.
Sabes
Registered User
Bad News Benning
Fallin for Dahlin?
Exactly, I also think Schenn's offensive game is underrated, probably a 25-30 point defenseman at the NHL level which along with being a defensive backbone makes him the 2nd best defenseman in this years draft. Who's #1? Zach Bogosian, he's a complete package and I'd really be shocked if he wasn't the first defenseman taken come June. I'd probably rate Pietrangelo #3 among defenseman, and a sure fire top 5 pick due to that size and offensive abilities.
Doughty is the guy I think could slip a bit in this draft, as far down as the 9th or 10th pick, Behind the likes of Hodgson, Beach, Wilson, and Boedker. Just not really impressed with Doughty, he just seems average to above average in most areas but not great in any one area which will prevent him from being an elite defenseman at the next level IMO. I just get a feeling from watching him that he might turn out closer to Steve Eminger than some of the Ray Bourque comparisons McGuire has been saying.
Anthony Mauro
DraftBuzz Hockey
He's got the one thing you can't teach prospects, and that is something I can't believe teams still have not caught onto.
Why the heck can't teams understand that the kid who obviously "gets it" will make the NHL and do better in the long run than a project? It's about time some guys who are not sexy get a deserving, high ranking.
Velociraptor
Registered User
PhoPhan
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 14,724
- 100
I've never understood this. Why can't you teach defense? I would argue that it's significantly more difficult to teach someone vision or creativity or flair. Again, when it comes down to it, I think it's just a difference in philosophy. Personally, if I'm drafting that high and I'm taking a defenseman, I want someone from whom I can expect more than 25 or 30 points, regardless of his defensive ability. I would gladly sacrifice a little defensive ability for a few dozen points.
Velociraptor
Registered User
defense is an entirely different position than a forward, you have to handle the play more physically than you would as a forward. Guys like Dell Zotto, Bogosian, Pietrangelo they probably will all hit 25+ points in thier careers; you have to draft the ones you know will average 22 + minutes a game, or the ones that average 30+ points a year. that is why scouts are having trouble with defense, they dont get many clues and they have to watch out for that key asset for thier NHL team.
Anthony Mauro
DraftBuzz Hockey
I didn't mean defense.
I meant you can't teach hockey smarts and instincts. Schenn gets it, he understands the game real well, and to me has little to no bust potential. I'm taking that kind of player over someone who "may" be able to put up more points and in the end might not even get to the NHL.
Not saying one's better than the other as its still premature, but who's looking like a more worthwhile pick? Marc Staal or Brian Lee? One was projected to put up a few more dozen points than the other (Lee is doing well in the AHL as of now) while the other is already showing a great mind for the game at the NHL level.
PhoPhan
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2002
- 14,724
- 100
While Staal might be a good comparison to Schenn, I feel that most of the other top defensemen in this draft project a little better than Brian Lee. That's not to say they'll all definitely end up better than Lee; that's assuredly not the case. But I don't feel that that's a proper comparison. And just so we're clear about how negligible a difference I'm talking about, I would take Doughty, Pietrangelo and Bogosian in the top 10 without batting an eyelash, but if I was picking 15th and all three were off the board, I would probably take Schenn. There's definitely a place for a player like that in the first round, but if I'm picking high, I want a lot of upside, too. There's something to be said for safety, but in the early part of the first round, I like to swing for the fences.
Entirely different answers based on what your team needs IMO.
The Leafs would rather have Volchenkov, because we have a bunch of offensive defensemen.
A team like Vancouver would be hard pressed to pass on Visnovsky, they have very little offensive support from their blue line.
Anyways, I just recently posted this over on the Leaf Boards;
As for who to take, here's my Top 15;
1- Stamkos
2- Pietrangelo
3- Doughty
4- Bogosian
5- Schenn
6- Beach
7- Hodgson
8- Wilson
9- Bodker
10- Filatov
11- Boychuk
12- Teubert
13- Bailey
14- Eberle
15- Del Zotto
Steven Stamkos is THE number one pick. No real decision here. He's ranked #1 by every draft service out there.
Alex Pietrangelo and Drew Doughty are real tough to pick between. I could give you a different answer on any day of the week, but ultimately I'm gonna take Pietrangelo here. He's a bigger body than Doughty, but his game is less refined as of right now. Doughty's a lot more NHL ready, but if a team is patient with Pietrangelo, IMO he's gonna be the better D-man between the two. For years we're gonna debate between the two, that's for certain though.
Zach Bogosian is my early draft favourite, and I'm ranking him as high as 4th. The Upstate New Yorker plays a similar game to that of Pietrangelo and Doughty, but brings an element they don't have. The PPG D-man loves to rough it up and play physical. A rock in the offensive zone and defensive zone, one could compare his style to that of Jack Johnson, or Dion Phaneuf. In the TSN Pre-Season Poll one scout mentioned "He'll be the guy who rockets up the charts, just wait and see." That he has.
Luke Schenn plays for Team Canada at the WJC and is a no-nonsense defender with an underrated offensive game. He's as reliable as they come, and you can always count on Luke to get the job done. There are prospects you know that will be great players before they step into an NHL rink, and he's one of them.
Kyle Beach; The Enigma. A lot to be said about this guy, depending on who you talk to. Viewed to some as an arrogant headcase that is a danger to everyone on the ice and in the lockerroom, and viewed to others as an emotional shift disturber that competes as hard as one possibly can will do anything to win. Despite his attitude (negative or positive), one CANNOT overlook the raw potential this guy has and how dominant he could become. Without the attitude problems, this guy IMO would be a lock for the top 4. I'm ranking him here because I don't see his attitude as that big of a problem, but others will and you'll see him ranked lower.
Cody Hodgson is a surprise to some, but not to me. I've silently had my eye on him since september, and he hasn't disappointed. 2nd only behind Stamkos for points as a 2008 eligible draftee, he's drawn comparisons to that of Doug Gilmour. Exploded offensively this season, and has already exceeded his point total from last year. Skating isn't great (some suggest he should lose a few pounds), but he makes up for it in work ethic. Plays a game similar to Stamkos, but can't do it as good. Hodgson will be a good pick.
Colin Wilson won't lead the league in scoring anytime soon, but it's with players like him you win championships. Doesn't skate like Gaborik, deke like Datsyuk, or shoot like Hull, but he owns great vision and has terrific hockey sense. The best two-way player in the draft, period. Plays a pro-style game with a great release, he's gonna step into the NHL right away and be very successful, a la Bergeron and Stastny. Future Captain.
Two Euro's fill out the 9 and 10 spots in Mikkel Bodker and Nikita Filatov. Two of the best skaters, and certainly fastest skaters in the draft. I give Bodker the edge simply because he's already playing in North America, and the lack of Russian Transfer Deal will always hurt the Russians. Can certainly move up my charts quick, but I fear putting them too high because while they could turn out like Gaborik, they could just as easily flop like Suglobov.
Two western boys take 11 and 12, in Colten Teubert and Zach Boychuk. But they couldn't play more opposite games. Teubert's a hulking defenseman that's an absolute rock in his own end, very similar to Regehr and Phillips. Boychuks a small, speedy forward who can succeed in any situation. I don't like his size though, and fear that will hold him back at the Pro level.
Josh Bailey is a jack-of-all-trades and master of none, but is excelling offensively. I feel bad having to put him at 13th, but that just goes to show how this years draft is. He's a coaches dream and will not disappoint.
Jordan Eberle should probably be higher, but I've never seen him play as the Regina Pats don't usually play the Oshawa Generals. He's a very crafty player, viewed as a pure offensive guy. Sounds very intriguing but I'm gonna need to see/hear more about him before I can rank him higher.
I'm gonna finish the list with a prospect I know all too well, in Mike Del Zotto. He's got all the tools to be the best offensive defenseman in this draft, but unfortunately I see him more likely to become this years Esposito. He's falling fast and won't stop until he clears up issues in his own end.
Top Corner2
Registered User
3 words, not 4
Thanks, I'll have a full mock draft up by the time each team plays 41 games.
Velociraptor
Registered User
3 words, not 4
Thanks, I'll have a full mock draft up by the time each team plays 41 games.
thanks, i enjoyed that, i think your mock will beat mine, i honestly idnt work to hard.
Anthony Mauro
DraftBuzz Hockey
Not sure what the point of this is, are these your opinions? It seems like its just a list thrown together with names placed anywhere.
If it's genuine - and you've seen these guys play - I'm not sure how you can rank this guy and leave out his teammate who's also a forward.
Velociraptor
Registered User
hmm not really, maybe a few names, but morneau seems solid among the third round, you can suggest movement with the list.
Velociraptor
Registered User
and i take it you were talking about mathieu tousignant. well hes good but morneau is a physical forward with ALOT more potential than tous. criticize all you want but IMO, morneau is a more pact player.
From a QMJHL perspective...in my opinion...
Samuel Morneau...has some off-ice problems and his production has gone south so i doubt he gets drafted.
Allan Clow...he was sent down to Jr A because he wasnt getting icetime, so he likely wont get picked.
Taylor MacDougall...his offensive game has been pretty much non-existent. I like what he does away from the puck, and on the PK, as well as faceoffs, but im not sure if thats going to be enough for him to get picked.
Jonathan Bonneau...has basically done nothing the last 6 weeks. Isnt playing very much as well and has hit the wall so to speak.
Maxime Sauve...should be higher
Pascal Amyot...shouldnt be that high
Joel Champagne...I dont think he gets drafted period...other than him being 6'03 205, there is very little going for him.
Chris Doyle...he should be higher..despite having a "bad" year he is still 3rd among 17 year olds in scoring in the Q.
Jan Kana...is far too high...isnt good enough offensivly, and isnt a great skater, plus hes 5'07...
Kevin Poulin...should be higher
Marc Barberio...should be much higher
Dannik Hudon-Paquette...not a fan of his...you probably have him too high but i know a few people that would agree with you.
Alex Neron...too high
Peter Delmas...is a bit too high
Some names to keep an eye on...
Alexander Beaton - C - LEW...has slowed of late but he has so much skill and vision.
Marco Cousineau - G - BaC...having an outstanding season
Marc-Andre Bourdon - D - RN...captain of a top Q team, and logs about 25 minutes a night
Jarred Struthers - W - RN...does a lot of things well, isnt flashy though
Pierre-Alexandre Vandall - C - SHA...one of the best faceoff men in the Q and has good skills
Joel Chouinard - D - VIC...offensivly gifted, smooth skater and size
I prefer Tousignant...but even then, hes weak physically, plus hes a year older...
Anthony Mauro
DraftBuzz Hockey
I don't think that matters, atleast not to me..this is his first year of eligibility, right?
He's not terribly weak, I've seen him some games throw his weight around alot to the point where I wanted to call him a more talented, but not as nuts version of Paquette. He has a cleaner skating style, and can actually carry the play.
Tousignant is in my top 60. I see his physical game and offensive dominance ramping up a few notches as time passes.
I'd rather a guy like him than Morneau who simply follows the play and one touches his way around the ice. I definately wouldn't call Morneau a "physical" forward either.
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