Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Voting Results

[seventieslord]

Player	Total	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	NR
Denis Savard	114	7	2	1	1			1	1	2		1
Babe Siebert	109	1	2	3	4		5	1
Babe Dye	88	2	5			1	1	2		2		3
Grant Fuhr	84	1		2	5	2		2	1			3
Igor Larionov	75			5		4	1	1		1		4
Rob Blake	58				2	4	2		3		1	4
Carey Price	55	1	4						2	1	1	7
Jacques Lemaire	48	2	1		1	1			1	1	1	8
Emile "Butch" Bouchard	48				2	2	1	1	3		4	3
Carl Brewer	46	1				2		3	2	2	2	4
Billy Smith	40			2			1	2	1	4		6
Michel Goulet	37			2				3	2		3	6
Harry "Hap" Holmes	29		1	1			2			1		11
Lorne "Gump" Worsley	26	1	1				1				2	11
Brendan Shanahan	23				1		2			2	2	9

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Pretty much a consensus top 5. No big surprises.

Babe Siebert with an odd spread. More 6th place votes than anything else but comes in 2nd.

Dye and Fuhr were over due by my thinking.

 

[MXD]

I don't get the rationale that enabled Johnny Bower to finish as high (there's absolutely nothing wrong with Bower's ranking) as he did in this list while Worsley is stuck being nowhere close to make it this time around.

 

[seventieslord]

I don't get the rationale that enabled Johnny Bower to finish as high as he did in this list while Worsley is stuck being nowhere close to make it this time around.

@quoipourquoi not being here to argue ferociously on his behalf might have something to do with that.

 

[MXD]

@quoipourquoi not being here to argue ferociously on his behalf might have something to do with that.

I get that.
But... It also gives the impression that we'd need to be taken by the hand to come up with a logical result.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I don't get the rationale that enabled Johnny Bower to finish as high (there's absolutely nothing wrong with Bower's ranking) as he did in this list while Worsley is stuck being nowhere close to make it this time around.

Worsley having a career losing record may explain it somewhat.

 

[MXD]

Worsley having a career losing record may explain it somewhat.

Had Bower been in the NHL instead of the AHL, he'd be the one with the losing record.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I get that.
But... It also gives the impression that we'd need to be taken by the hand to come up with a logical result.

To be honest, last round was so quiet that I had a feeling we didn't give some of the candidates a proper examination before voting. Goulet hasn't been talked about substantially in... 3 rounds I think? Holmes and Worsley were barely mentioned. Those players attracted a total of six top-5 votes, and while I don't necessarily think they should have had more than that, I can't help but feel they would have attracted more attention if they had been discussed a bit.

This isn't anyone's fault, just seems to be the natural lag we usually experience in the last few rounds of these projects. Some participants fall away, others run into time constraints, and the most exciting players are gone by now. The downside is that the players who still have vocal advocates in the room seem to get a boost, while those who have vocal critics get buried. Seems like an inevitable outcome when the voter pool shrinks and discussion quiets down.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Had Bower been in the NHL instead of the AHL, he'd be the one with the losing record.

That's pure speculation.

Though quite likely.

 

[seventieslord]

Player	Total	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	NR
Rob Blake	104	1	1	3	2	5	2	1	1
Duke Keats	95	3	3	2	1	2			1			4
Michel Goulet	89		3	3	2	2	1	1		1	1	2
Carl Brewer	86	3		2	3		2	1		2	1	2
Carey Price	81	2	2	1	3		2			2		4
Billy Smith	71		1	2	2	1	2	1	3	1	1	2
Emile "Butch" Bouchard	70		2	1		3	3	1	2		1	3
Frantisek Pospisil	53	2			2			2	2	1	3	4
Jacques Lemaire	50	3				1		2	1		3	6
Daniel Alfredsson	39		1			1	1	1	1	5	2	4
Brendan Shanahan	35				1		2	1	3	2	1	6
Lorne "Gump" Worsley	34	2					1	2			1	10
Harry "Hap" Holmes	30		1	2				1			1	11
Yvan Cournoyer	24		1			1		2			1	11
John LeClair	19		1						2	2		11

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

no time to start a new thread ATM, will do within a few hours.

 

[Professor What]

Only Blake avoided multiple NRs -- or NRs at all for that matter. And a guy with multiple first place votes finished 12th. That might be the oddest combination we've had yet.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

A guy with 3 first place votes comes in 9th.

Carey Price, yuck.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

So who forgot to vote this week?

 

[seventieslord]

Player	Total	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	NR
Billy Smith	107	2	2	3	2	2	2	1	1	1		1
Nikita Kucherov	102	4	6				1				3	3
Frantisek Pospisil	95	2	1	1	3	4	1	1		1	2	1
Emile "Butch" Bouchard	95	1	2	5	1		3			2	1	2
Jacques Lemaire	81	4			2	2	1	2		1		5
Curtis Joseph	75		1	3	3	1	1	1	1	1	1	4
Daniel Alfredsson	67	1	1		1	2	2	1	4		3	2
Patrik Elias	64	1		2		2		3	3	2	1	3
Brendan Shanahan	58			2	2	1	1	1	3	2		5
Alexander Yakushev	52			1	1	1	3	1	1	4	1	4
Lorne "Gump" Worsley	51	2			2			3		2	1	7
Harry "Hap" Holmes	34		2			2				1	2	10
John LeClair	32		1				1	2	3		1	9
Yvan Cournoyer	22		1				1	1	1		1	12

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I like it.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I like it.

yeah that five seems absolutely correct

 

[BenchBrawl]

Cournoyer last is a major travesty. Unbelievable.

 

[plusandminus]

How many players have now gotten an overall ranking? Is Lemaire ranked 190??

 

[bobholly39]

How many players have now gotten an overall ranking? Is Lemaire ranked 190??

Yeah, 190.

10 players to go.

 

[seventieslord]

Before anyone asks, Eddie Gerard makes the cut, because the rule was that the threshold must be 1.5 points per ballot cast, which in this case is a separation of 22.5 points (15 ballots were cast). Gerard was only separated by 22.

Do we have rules codified about this that I can review? (I know QPQ won't see this, but anyone else?)

Just curious because this was about whether to let the 5th guy in, not about whether to include a sixth.

But looking at last week's results and how close 6th was to 5th (and how far ahead of 7th they also were), I can't help but feel like I should have put 6th on the list too. And now it's the same thing this week.

For now, I'll proceed with the usual of putting five on, and the rest go in the hopper for the next week. But I'm not the boss of this thing so I'll do what the group thinks is right and fair.

 

[seventieslord]

Player	Total	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	NR
Curtis Joseph	94	6	1		1		1	3			1	3
Daniel Alfredsson	93	1	1	2	4	3	1	1	1			2
Alexander Yakushev	91		4	2	1	2	1	1	3	1		1
Patrik Elias	89	1	2	4	1		4			1		3
Brendan Shanahan	78	1	1		2	5	2		1		2	2
Lorne "Gump" Worsley	77	2	1	1	1	2	1	2	1	2	1	2
Lester Patrick	67	2	1	1			2	4		1	2	3
John LeClair	52		1	1	2	1	1	1		2	2	5
Vyacheslav Starshinov	52	2	1		1	1		1	1	1	1	7
Chuck Rayner	45		2			2		2	1	2		7
Harry "Hap" Holmes	44		1	3					3	1		8
Yvan Cournoyer	43	1		1	1		1		3	1	2	6
Roy Conacher	30			1	1			1	1	3	2	7
Harry Lumley	25				1		2		1	1	3	8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Player	Total	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	NR
Curtis Joseph	94	6	1		1		1	3			1	3
Daniel Alfredsson	93	1	1	2	4	3	1	1	1			2
Alexander Yakushev	91		4	2	1	2	1	1	3	1		1
Patrik Elias	89	1	2	4	1		4			1		3
Brendan Shanahan	78	1	1		2	5	2		1		2	2
Lorne "Gump" Worsley	77	2	1	1	1	2	1	2	1	2	1	2
Lester Patrick	67	2	1	1			2	4		1	2	3
John LeClair	52		1	1	2	1	1	1		2	2	5
Vyacheslav Starshinov	52	2	1		1	1		1	1	1	1	7
Chuck Rayner	45		2			2		2	1	2		7
Harry "Hap" Holmes	44		1	3					3	1		8
Yvan Cournoyer	43	1		1	1		1		3	1	2	6
Roy Conacher	30			1	1			1	1	3	2	7
Harry Lumley	25				1		2		1	1	3	8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

We should probably consider adding Worsley now. A one point gap on 17 ballots can't possibly be meaningful.

 

[MXD]

... yeah. Either Shanahan and Worsley both make it, or both don't make it.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Of the 100 players on the NHL's 2017 top 100 players list, 92 of them are either on our list already (our top 100 project, plus the 65 players voted in so far), or are up for voting.

The eight players who haven't even yet come up for voting:

1. Yvan Cournoyer
2. Bob Gainey
3. Mike Gartner
4. Pat Lafontaine
5. Joe Nieuwendyk
6. Denis Savard
7. Brendan Shanahan
8. Darryl Sittler

It'll be interesting to see who appears on our list. I think most of these players will at least come up for voting. The least likely candidate - my guess would be Lafontaine.

Savard and Shanahan are now on our list.

Whether they're ultimately included or not, Cournoyer and Sittler are up debate this round.

That leaves us with four of the NHL's top 100 list who never even came up for voting - Gainey, Gartner, Lafontaine and Nieuwendyk.

For what it's worth, I had Gainey in the top 200 on my original list, Gartner in the top 220, and no room for Lafontaine or Nieuwendyk. I think Gainey would have been interesting to discuss, the other three really don't have a strong case for top 200 (let alone top 100).

 

[Professor What]

Savard and Shanahan are now on our list.

Whether they're ultimately included or not, Cournoyer and Sittler are up debate this round.

That leaves us with four of the NHL's top 100 list who never even came up for voting - Gainey, Gartner, Lafontaine and Nieuwendyk.

For what it's worth, I had Gainey in the top 200 on my original list, Gartner in the top 220, and no room for Lafontaine or Nieuwendyk. I think Gainey would have been interesting to discuss, the other three really don't have a strong case for top 200 (let alone top 100).

I remember thinking how far out in left field that list felt when it was released. I'm even more convinced now.