Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time - Voting Results

[tarheelhockey]

Congrats to everyone for making it to the end of a long project, and thanks to @quoipourquoi and @seventieslord for successful administration of the process.

 

[MXD]

Just as in the Centers project, a final round is probably required because the gap between Leclair, Rayner and Cameron isn't significant.

On the other hand, discussions kinda died down.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Just as in the Centers project, a final round is probably required because the gap between Leclair, Rayner and Cameron isn't significant.

Could be fun... three different eras, three different positions.

 

[seventieslord]

Just as in the Centers project, a final round is probably required because the gap between Leclair, Rayner and Cameron isn't significant.

On the other hand, discussions kinda died down.

...is that the rule? If that's the rule then we should do that. I am open to it.

 

[ted2019]

...is that the rule? If that's the rule then we should do that. I am open to it.

LeClair made it, glad to see.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Congrats to everyone, and thanks to @quoipourquoi and @seventieslord for running this thing. It was fun. Since neither probably has the full set of votes due to the change of administration, I'll post mine here. I suggest others do the same. My Round 1 is complete mess, though I made some deliberate statements about a few players, knowing I could adjust in Round 2.

I forgot Patrick Kane in Round 1 for some reason. Just a blunder. I'd put him around Bernard Geoffrion right now.

Biggest disappointment from the project: Harry Cameron not making it. I had him near the 100th mark in Round 1, and no regret. It's not clear that he isn't exactly Brian Leetch, with a resume obscured by the split leagues. I wouldn't go that far, but he's uncomfortably close to Leetch, for a guy supposed to be around 200th.

Round 1 BenchBrawl:

1	Gordie Howe
2	Bobby Orr
3	Wayne Gretzky
4	Maurice Richard
5	Mario Lemieux
6	Jean Béliveau
7	Bobby Hull
8	Doug Harvey
9	Patrick Roy
10	Jacques Plante
11	Sidney Crosby
12	Raymond Bourque
13	Howie Morenz
14	Mark Messier
15	Guy Lafleur
16	Eddie Shore
17	Terry Sawchuk
18	Jaromir Jagr
19	Bobby Clarke
20	Alexander Ovechkin
21	Stan Mikita
22	Phil Esposito
23	Denis Potvin
24	Red Kelly
25	Frank Nighbor
26	Larry Robinson
27	Sergei Makarov
28	Bill Cook
29	Glenn Hall
30	Dominik Hasek
31	Martin Brodeur
32	Joe Sakic
33	Nicklas Lidstrom
34	Ken Dryden
35	Mike Bossy
36	Bryan Trottier
37	Steve Yzerman
38	Viacheslav Fetisov
39	Cyclone Taylor
40	Syl Apps Sr.
41	Frank Boucher
42	Henri Richard
43	Newsy Lalonde
44	Ted Lindsay
45	Sprague Cleghorn
46	Chris Chelios
47	King Clancy
48	Brad Park
49	Vladislav Tretiak
50	Ted Kennedy
51	Peter Forsberg
52	Milt Schmidt
53	Chris Pronger
54	Valeri Kharlamov
55	Paul Coffey
56	Pierre Pilote
57	Frank Brimsek
58	Dickie Moore
59	Scott Stevens
60	Aurèle Joliat
61	Evgeni Malkin
62	Charlie Conacher
63	Bernie Geoffrion
64	Earl Seibert
65	Tim Horton
66	Charlie Gardiner
67	Georges Vézina
68	Frank Mahovlich
69	Dit Clapper
70	Serge Savard
71	Eddie Gerard
72	Zdeno Chára
73	Duncan Keith
74	Clint Benedict
75	Turk Broda
76	Jari Kurri
77	Al MacInnis
78	Drew Doughty
79	Boris Mikhailov
80	Bill Gadsby
81	Teemu Selanne
82	Joe Malone
83	Börje Salming
84	Brian Leetch
85	Valeri Vasiliev
86	Cy Denneny
87	Rod Langway
88	Guy Lapointe
89	Jarome Iginla
90	Sergei Fedorov
91	Sid Abel
92	Erik Karlsson
93	Dave Keon
94	Scott Niedermayer
95	Mark Howe
96	Elmer Lach
97	Andy Bathgate
98	Jacques Lemaire
99	Jonathan Toews
100	Harry Cameron
101	Victor Hedman
102	Shea Weber
103	Russell Bowie
104	Hod Stuart
105	Bill Cowley
106	Nels Stewart
107	Gilbert Perreault
108	Ed Belfour
109	Brett Hull
110	Martin St. Louis
111	Doug Gilmour
112	Max Bentley
113	Norm Ullman
114	Jack Stewart
115	Eric Lindros
116	Marcel Dionne
117	Bill Durnan
118	Joe Thornton
119	Anatoli Firsov
120	Ching Johnson
121	Bill Quackenbush
122	Busher Jackson
123	Toe Blake
124	Jacques Laperrière
125	Georges Boucher
126	Jan Suchy
127	Doug Bentley
128	Pavel Bure
129	Bernie Parent
130	Yvan Cournoyer
131	Vladimir Krutov
132	Lionel Conacher
133	Vladimír Martinec
134	Mike Modano
135	Mickey MacKay
136	Frank Fredrickson
137	Peter Stastny
138	Allan Stanley
139	Johnny Bucyk
140	Pavel Datsyuk
141	Alex Delvecchio
142	Patrik Elias
143	Marty Barry
144	Marian Hossa
145	Moose Johnson
146	Sylvio Mantha
147	Hooley Smith
148	Hugh Lehman
149	Babe Siebert
150	Daniel Alfredsson
151	Tom Johnson
152	Henrik Zetterberg
153	Ron Francis
154	John LeClair
155	Alexander Yakushev
156	Jean Ratelle
157	Ebbie Goodfellow
158	Butch Bouchard
159	Jiří Holeček
160	Johnny Bower
161	Marcel Pronovost
162	Bryan Hextall Sr.
163	Michel Goulet
164	Rob Blake
165	Carl Brewer
166	Paul Kariya
167	Mats Sundin
168	Dale Hawerchuk
169	Bob Gainey
170	Alexei Kasatonov
171	Jean-Claude Tremblay
172	Tommy Phillips
173	Alexander Maltsev
174	Syd Howe
175	Harvey Pulford
176	Mark Recchi
177	Rod Gilbert
178	Frantisek Pospisil
179	Adam Oates
180	Sweeney Schriner
181	Ken Reardon
182	Lester Patrick
183	Art Coulter
184	Vladimir Petrov
185	Ryan Getzlaf
186	Anze Kopitar
187	Tom Barrasso
188	Babe Dye
189	Didier Pitre
190	Brendan Shanahan
191	Guy Carbonneau
192	Patrice Bergeron
193	Roy Worters
194	Tony Esposito
195	Henrik Lundqvist
196	Grant Fuhr
197	Helmuts Balderis
198	Theoren Fleury
199	Larry Murphy
200	Tiny Thompson
201	Gordie Drillon
202	George Hainsworth
203	Billy Smith
204	Denis Savard
205	Igor Larionov
206	Darryl Sittler
207	Vaclav Nedomansky
208	Duke Keats
209	Gump Worsley
210	Harry Lumley
211	Chuck Rayner
212	Doug Wilson
213	Ilya Kovalchuk
214	Rod Brind'Amour
215	Reg Noble
216	Curtis Joseph
217	Carey Price
218	Bert Olmstead
219	Rick Middleton
220	Luc Robitaille

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

---

Round 2 BenchBrawl:

Vote 1
Missed the deadline

Vote 2
1. Serge Savard
2. Russell Bowie
3. Drew Doughty
4. Doug Gilmour
5. Toe Blake
6. Busher Jackson
7. Valeri Vasiliev
8. Henrik Lundqvist
9. Johnny Bower
10. Erik Karlsson

Vote 3
1. Serge Savard
2. Doug Gilmour
3. Rod Langway
4. Toe Blake
5. Bernie Parent
6. Busher Jackson
7. Johnny Bower
8. Valeri Vasiliev
9. Roy Worters
10. Peter Stastny

Vote 4
1. Serge Savard
2. Gilbert Perreault
3. Bernie Parent
4. Peter Stastny
5. Rod Langway
6. Busher Jackson
7. Valeri Vasiliev
8. Guy Lapointe
9. Bill Quackenbush
10. Alex Delvecchio

Vote 5
1. Gilbert Perreault
2. Bernie Parent
3. Scott Niedermayer
4. Busher Jackson
5. Pavel Bure
6. Ivan Johnson
7. Jack Stewart
8. Rod Langway
9. Guy Lapointe
10. Alex Delvecchio

Vote 6
Missed the deadline

Vote 7
1. Gilbert Perreault
2. Scott Niedermayer
3. Guy Lapointe
4. Doug Bentley
5. Rod Langway
6. Mike Modano
7. Georges Hainsworth
8. Johnny Bucyk
9. Tommy Phillips
10. Marcel Pronovost

Vote 8
Missed the deadline

Vote 9
1. Mike Modano
2. Hod Stuart
3. Jacques Laperrière
4. Tiny Thompson
5. Hooley Smith
6. Syd Howe
7. Dale Hawerchuk
8. Patrice Bergeron
9. Vladimir Petrov
10. Sweeney Schriner

Vote 10
1. Hod Stuart
2. Victor Hedman
3. Shea Weber
4. Hooley Smith
5. Jacques Laperrière
6. Dale Hawerchuk
7. Vladimir Petrov
8. Marty Barry
9. Ebbie Goodfellow
10. Jan Suchy

Vote 11
1. Jonathan Toews
2. Hooley Smith
3. Jacques Laperrière
4. Johnny Bucyk
5. Shea Weber
6. Dale Hawerchuk
7. Hnerik Zetterberg
8. Billy Smith
9. Ebbie Goodfellow
10. Lionel Conacher

Vote 12
1. Jonathan Toews
2. Johnny Bucyk
3. Georges Boucher
4. Henrik Zetterberg
5. Mickey Mackay
6. Bryan Hextall
7. Billy Smith
8. Lionel Conacher
9. Alexei Kasatanov
10. Marian Hossa

Vote 13
1. Frank Fredrickson
2. Anze Kopitar
3. Georges Boucher
4. Henrik Zetterberg
5. Bryan Hextall
6. Billy Smith
7. Lionel Conacher
8. Alexei Kasatanov
9. Mark Recchi
10. Moose Johnson

Vote 14
1. Frank Fredrickson
2. Jacques Lemaire
3. Mats Sundin
4. Jean Ratelle
5. JC Tremblay
6. Vaclav Nedomansky
7. Mark Recchi
8. Billy Smith
9. Lionel Conacher
10. Grant Fuhr

Vote 15
1. Jacques Lemaire
2. Jean Ratelle
3. JC Tremblay
4. Carey Price
5. Lionel Conacher
6. Mark Recchi
7. Billy Smith
8. Grant Fuhr
9. Denis Savard
10. Babe Dye

Vote 16
1. Jacques Lemaire
2. Carey Price
3. Babe Siebert
4. Grant Fuhr
5. Rob Blake
6. Butch Bouchard
7. Billy Smith
8. Denis Savard
9. Babe Dye
10. Michel Goulet

Vote 17
1. Jacques Lemaire
2. Yvan Cournoyer
3. Duke Keats
4. Carey Price
5. Rob Blake
6. Butch Bouchard
7. Billy Smith
8. Frantisek Pospisil
9. Carl Brewer
10. Michel Goulet

Vote 18
1. Jacques Lemaire
2. Yvan Cournoyer
3. Butch Bouchard
4. Frantisek Pospisil
5. Patrik Elias
6. Alex Yakushev
7. Billy Smith
8. Daniel Alfredsson
9. Curtis Joseph
10. John LeClair

Vote 19
1. Yvan Cournoyer
2. Alex Yakushev
3. Lester Patrick
4. Patrik Elias
5. Gump Worsley
6. Curtis Joseph
7. John LeClair
8. Daniel Alfredsson
9. Vyacheslav Starshinov
10. Brendan Shanahan

Vote 20
1. Harry Cameron
2. Yvan Cournoyer
3. Ryan Getzlaf
4. Lester Patrick
5. Vyacheslav Starshinov
6. Tom Barrasso
7. Frank Foyston
8. John LeClair
9. Chuck Rayner
10. Hap Holmes

 

[Weztex]

Good job everyone. I'll post my initial top-220 too.

I believe that those kind of projects tend put much a little too much emphasis on forwards. What I tried was to slot at least 4 defensemen and 2 goalies for every group of 12 players, mirroring their actual representation on the ice. It was quite the gymnastic but I liked the result. Hopefully it helped having non-offense guys show up earlier for discussions, even if it didn't mean them ending up higher on the final list.

5 highest players who didn't make the Top-200
164 - Larry Murphy
166 - Ken Reardon
168 - Tom Barrasso
173 - Art Ross
176 - Hap Holmes

Players not on my list who made the Top-200
158 - Jonathan Toews
170 - Steven Stamkos (think I forgot him)
179 - Grant Fuhr
182 - Duke Keats
190 - Jacques Lemaire
198 - Vyacheslav Starshnikov
199 - Ryan Getzlaf
200 - John LeClair

Biggest risers
+81 - Vladimir Krutov (208 to 127)
+52 - Patrice Bergeron (194 to 142)
+50 - Mickey MacKay (209 to 259)

Biggest falls
-44 - Billy Smith (142 to 186) -44
-43 - Rob Blake (139 to 181) -43
-42 - Lorne Worsley (154 to 196) -42

Weztex's top-220

1	Wayne Gretzky
2	Bobby Orr
3	Gordie Howe
4	Mario Lemieux
5	Jean Beliveau
6	Sidney Crosby
7	Dominik Hasek
8	Doug Harvey
9	Eddie Shore
10	Bobby Hull
11	Patrick Roy
12	Raymond Bourque
13	Maurice Richard
14	Nicklas Lidstrom
15	Howie Morenz
16	Jaromir Jagr
17	Jacques Plante
18	Alexander Ovechkin
19	Denis Potvin
20	Phil Esposito
21	Stan Mikita
22	Glenn Hall
23	Larry Robinson
24	Sergei Makarov
25	Viacheslav Fetisov
26	Mark Messier
27	Guy Lafleur
28	Bobby Clarke
29	Red Kelly
30	Frank Nighbor
31	Chris Chelios
32	Newsy Lalonde
33	Terry Sawchuk
34	Martin Brodeur
35	Brad Park
36	Bill Cook
37	Joe Sakic
38	Ken Dryden
39	Bryan Trottier
40	Steve Yzerman
41	King Clancy
42	Cyclone Taylor
43	Vladislav Tretiak
44	Pierre Pilote
45	Evgeni Malkin
46	Paul Coffey
47	Ted Lindsay
48	Earl Seibert
49	Mike Bossy
50	Chris Pronger
51	Valeri Kharlamov
52	Syl Apps
53	Frank Brimsek
54	Frank Boucher
55	Peter Forsberg
56	Bill Durnan
57	Tim Horton
58	Sprague Cleghorn
59	Marcel Dionne
60	Al MacInnis
61	Charlie Conacher
62	Scott Stevens
63	Bernard Geoffrion
64	Joe Malone
65	Teemu Selanne
66	Charlie Gardiner
67	Elmer Lach
68	Clint Benedict
69	Bill Gadsby
70	Patrick Kane
71	Dit Clapper
72	Milt Schmidt
73	Bill Cowley
74	Borje Salming
75	Georges Vezina
76	Henri Richard
77	Andy Bathgate
78	Brian Leetch
79	Turk Broda
80	Duncan Keith
81	Frank Mahovlich
82	Cy Denenny
83	Nels Stewart
84	Valeri Vasiliev
85	Brett Hull
86	Aurele Joliat
87	Serge Savard
88	Ted Kennedy
89	Joe Thornton
90	Ed Belfour
91	Tony Esposito
92	Zdeno Chara
93	Boris Mikhailov
94	Martin St. Louis
95	Erik Karlsson
96	Connor McDavid
97	Bill Quackenbush
98	Jari Kurri
99	Mark Howe
100	Scott Niedermayer
101	Bernie Parent
102	Max Bentley
103	Jack Stewart
104	Rod Langway
105	Norm Ullman
106	Roy Worters
107	Guy Lapointe
108	Eddie Gerard
109	Johnny Bower
110	Sergei Fedorov
111	Toe Blake
112	Anatoli Firsov
113	Jarome Iginla
114	Jiri Holecek
115	Marcel Pronovost
116	Busher Jackson
117	Sid Abel
118	Hod Stuart
119	Ching Johnson
120	Jacques Laperriere
121	Tiny Thompson
122	Alexander Maltsev
123	George Hainsworth
124	Eric Lindros
125	Adam Oates
126	Peter Stastny
127	Alexei Kasatonov
128	Dickie Moore
129	Ebbie Goodfellow
130	Doug Gilmour
131	Pavel Datsyuk
132	Pavel Bure
133	Tommy Phillips
134	Vladimir Martinec
135	Jean Ratelle
136	Jean-Claude Tremblay
137	Paul Kariya
138	Rob Blake
139	Drew Doughty
140	Hugh Lehman
141	Moose Johnson
142	Billy Smith
143	Jan Suchy
144	Dave Keon
145	Ron Francis
146	Alex Delvecchio
147	Doug Bentley
148	Emile Bouchard
149	Henrik Lundqvist
150	Marty Barry
151	Georges Boucher
152	Victor Hedman
153	Russell Bowie
154	Gump Worsley
155	Carl Brewer
156	Gilbert Perreault
157	Vladimir Petrov
158	Johnny Bucyk
159	Mike Modano
160	Dale Hawerchuk
161	Babe Siebert
162	Lionel Conacher
163	Roberto Luongo
164	Larry Murphy
165	Shea Weber
166	Ken Reardon
167	Sweeney Schriner
168	Tom Barrasso
169	Hooley Smith
170	Lester Patrick
171	Denis Savard
172	Syd Howe
173	Art Ross
174	Marian Hossa
175	Mark Recchi
176	Hap Holmes
177	Babe Dye
178	Chuck Rayner
179	Art Coulter
180	Harry Cameron
181	Igor Larionov
182	Mats Sundin
183	Harry Lumley
184	Vaclav Nedomansky
185	Bryan Hextall
186	Luc Robitaille
187	Doug Wilson
188	Sergei Zubov
189	Carey Price
190	Frank Fredrickson
191	Tom Johnson
192	Sylvio Mantha
193	Paul Thompson
194	Patrice Bergeron
195	Frantisek Pospisil
196	Brendan Shanahan
197	Daniel Alfredsson
198	Henrik Zetterberg
199	Allan Stanley
200	Ryan Suter
201	Curtis Joseph
202	Rogatien Vachon
203	Nikita Kucherov
204	Harvey Pulford
205	Darryl Sittler
206	Alexander Ragulin
207	Roy Conacher
208	Vladimir Krutov
209	Mickey MacKay
210	Anze Kopitar
211	Ed Giacomin
212	Michel Goulet
213	John Vanbiesbrouck
214	Didier Pitre
215	Tim Thomas
216	Percy LeSueur
217	Alexander Yakushev
218	Sven Tumba
219	Bob Gainey
220	Pierre Turgeon

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[tarheelhockey]

I believe that those kind of projects tend put much a little too much emphasis on forwards.

I agree, and plead guilty to being unable to escape the gravitational pull of players who can be measured on their numbers alone.

This is part of the reason I boosted so hard for Bill Quackenbush. There’s just a natural inclination to push old-time defensemen lower on the list unless they were really offensively-oriented, and I don’t know how to solve for that other than creating a list like this and then arguing retrospectively for the underrated guys. It’s really hard to get it right in-process.

 

[Professor What]

I agree, and plead guilty to being unable to escape the gravitational pull of players who can be measured on their numbers alone.

This is part of the reason I boosted so hard for Bill Quackenbush. There’s just a natural inclination to push old-time defensemen lower on the list unless they were really offensively-oriented, and I don’t know how to solve for that other than creating a list like this and then arguing retrospectively for the underrated guys. It’s really hard to get it right in-process.

I think if this were to be done a second time, it would probably do better, though I'm not exactly disappointed with what we did, and I don't say that as a put down. The way I look at it is that we kind of broke some ground here, and that laid a foundation for future projects. Even if it's not another top 200 project, there's been a lot of discussion about players that will be useful for future positional lists and the like as well. And if we were to do this again, there has been a lot of hashing out details that would mean that there would be a lot more knowledge to apply from the beginning of that effort.

But I do also agree with the forward skew, and as much as we might try to avoid it, I don't think human nature can help but be affected by numbers, and forwards get the numbers. I honestly think that there were some cases that I subconsciously pushed back too hard in the other direction trying to balance it out in my own head, and that's no better when push comes to shove, but it is what it is.

I also look back at my original list now and it amazes my how differently I see it. In some cases, it's nothing more than I just think I made mistakes early on and never should have put certain players where I did. In other cases, I can see where the back and forth moved my opinions, sometimes rather significantly, with some players noticeably moving up and others noticeably moving down. I feel like I learned a lot, and that makes it worthwhile for me. I hope others feel the same way. I don't think for a moment that we "got it right" the first time, but I still feel pretty proud of what we've done and I feel honored to have been a part of it.

 

[seventieslord]

We actually do have the full results - QPQ sent them to me before he went.... wherever he went.

I will release them at some point (soon).

 

[BenchBrawl]

We actually do have the full results - QPQ sent them to me before he went.... wherever he went.

I will release them at some point (soon).

Oh, my bad then. Good to hear.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I also look back at my original list now and it amazes my how differently I see it. In some cases, it's nothing more than I just think I made mistakes early on and never should have put certain players where I did. In other cases, I can see where the back and forth moved my opinions, sometimes rather significantly, with some players noticeably moving up and others noticeably moving down. I feel like I learned a lot, and that makes it worthwhile for me. I hope others feel the same way. I don't think for a moment that we "got it right" the first time, but I still feel pretty proud of what we've done and I feel honored to have been a part of it.

Oh yeah, my original list looks like garbage and I'm much happier with how it all shook out here.

I had Roy Conacher up in the 170s which in hindsight is clearly influenced by the ATD. He probably could've snuck onto the list at the very end there but just not enough room

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

...is that the rule? If that's the rule then we should do that. I am open to it.

Just as in the Centers project, a final round is probably required because the gap between Leclair, Rayner and Cameron isn't significant.

On the other hand, discussions kinda died down.

For the most "accurate" answer, a final round would be needed, but given the lack of discussion in the last few rounds of this one, it's probably best just to end things. Rayner and Cameron were represented in the goalies and defensemen project, though not quite as highly as they would be if they got in here.

 

[tarheelhockey]

My biggest whiffs...

Players in my top-100 who never came up for voting
Tuukka Rask (#159)
Gord Drillon (#189)
Neil Colville (#190)
Rod Gilbert (#194)
Paul Thompson (#199)

I don't really think we missed much with the low-ranked forwards, but I wish we had time to talk about Rask. @TheDevilMadeMe mentioned how we are systematically underrating modern players... I think we're seeing something like that when we have guys like Holmes and Lumley coming up for vote but not Rask. It's not that he's the very best of his generation, but he's pretty darn close, and his generation is extremely competitive.

Players on the list that weren't in my top-120 at all
Patrice Bergeron (#142)
Anze Kopitar (#161)
Steven Stamkos (#170)
Frantisek Pospisil (#188)
Curtis Joseph (#191)
Patrik Elias (#194)
Lester Patrick (#196)
Ryan Getzlaf (#198)

See above about underrating modern players.

Almost all of these guys were on my radar for final cuts -- Bergeron, Kopitar, Stamkos, Getzlaf would have made my top-140. Joseph was the last goalie I cut. Frank Patrick was the second-last defenseman I cut, along with Tom Johnson... Pospisil was on my radar as well.

The exception was Elias, who I didn't even include in my preliminary research.

 

[The Macho King]

Tim thomas was a guy I thought we could discuss. Probably the highest peak of players not discussed, but zero longevity.

 

[Dr John Carlson]

After reviewing my original list further, I realize that at some point in the list-building process I accidentally removed Rask, who I would've had somewhere in the 190 range if I remember correctly. Probably wouldn't have affected anything but seeing his name mentioned got me to look for him on my own list.

Off the top of my head, players that I gained appreciation for over the course of the project include Toe Blake, Denis Savard, Mats Sundin, and Lionel Conacher.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

My biggest whiffs...
Players in my top-100 who never came up for voting
Tuukka Rask (#159)
Gord Drillon (#189)
Neil Colville (#190)
Rod Gilbert (#194)
Paul Thompson (#199)

I don't really think we missed much with the low-ranked forwards, but I wish we had time to talk about Rask. @TheDevilMadeMe mentioned how we are systematically underrating modern players... I think we're seeing something like that when we have guys like Holmes and Lumley coming up for vote but not Rask. It's not that he's the very best of his generation, but he's pretty darn close, and his generation is extremely competitive.

Players on the list that weren't in my top-120 at all
Patrice Bergeron (#142)
Anze Kopitar (#161)
Steven Stamkos (#170)
Frantisek Pospisil (#188)
Curtis Joseph (#191)
Patrik Elias (#194)
Lester Patrick (#196)
Ryan Getzlaf (#198)

See above about underrating modern players.

Almost all of these guys were on my radar for final cuts -- Bergeron, Kopitar, Stamkos, Getzlaf would have made my top-140. Joseph was the last goalie I cut. Frank Patrick was the second-last defenseman I cut, along with Tom Johnson... Pospisil was on my radar as well.

The exception was Elias, who I didn't even include in my preliminary research.

I had Rod Gilbert at 190.

 

[ted2019]

My biggest whiffs...

Players in my top-100 who never came up for voting
Tuukka Rask (#159)
Gord Drillon (#189)
Neil Colville (#190)
Rod Gilbert (#194)
Paul Thompson (#199)

I don't really think we missed much with the low-ranked forwards, but I wish we had time to talk about Rask. @TheDevilMadeMe mentioned how we are systematically underrating modern players... I think we're seeing something like that when we have guys like Holmes and Lumley coming up for vote but not Rask. It's not that he's the very best of his generation, but he's pretty darn close, and his generation is extremely competitive.

Players on the list that weren't in my top-120 at all
Patrice Bergeron (#142)
Anze Kopitar (#161)
Steven Stamkos (#170)
Frantisek Pospisil (#188)
Curtis Joseph (#191)
Patrik Elias (#194)
Lester Patrick (#196)
Ryan Getzlaf (#198)

See above about underrating modern players.

Almost all of these guys were on my radar for final cuts -- Bergeron, Kopitar, Stamkos, Getzlaf would have made my top-140. Joseph was the last goalie I cut. Frank Patrick was the second-last defenseman I cut, along with Tom Johnson... Pospisil was on my radar as well.

The exception was Elias, who I didn't even include in my preliminary research.

In really feel that Rask got short-changed here. His winning % is among the top within the past 25 years. 306-163-66 is nothing to sneeze at. Colville and his multi-position play got short changed also. A bit alike Reg Noble. In regards to Bergeron and compnay, I think the only ones not on my list was Getzlaf/Elias/Joseph. I was hoping to see Rick Middleton make an appearance.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

In really feel that Rask got short-changed here. His winning % is among the top within the past 25 years. 306-163-66 is nothing to sneeze at. Colville and his multi-position play got short changed also. A bit alike Reg Noble. In regards to Bergeron and compnay, I think the only ones not on my list was Getzlaf/Elias/Joseph. I was hoping to see Rick Middleton make an appearance.

Had Middleton at 170.

 

[ted2019]

My top 220: ( I missed on my fair share)

1. Gordie Howe
2. Wayne Gretzky
3. Bobby Orr
4. Jean Beliveau
5. Mario Lemieux
6. Bobby Hull
7. Doug Harvey
8. Ray Bourque
9. Maurice Richard
10. Dominik Hasek
11. Howie Morenz
12. Eddie Shore
13. Patrick Roy
14. Sidney Crosby
15. Nicklas Lidstrom
16. Jaromir Jagr
17. Red Kelly
18. Denis Potvin
19. Frank Nighbor
20. Jacques Plante
21. Alex Ovechkin
22. Glenn Hall
23. Guy Lafleur
24. Bobby Clarke
25. Sergei Makarov
26. Viacheslav Fetisov
27. Mark Messier
28. Bill Cook
29. Stan Mikita
30. Bryan Trottier
31. Larry Robinson
32. Joe Sakic
33. Brad Park
34. Martin Brodeur
35. Cyclone Taylor
36. Phil Esposito
37. Mike Bossy
38. Terry Sawchuk
39. Peter Forsberg
40. Ted Lindsay
41. Newsy Lalonde
42. Frank Boucher
43. Steve Yzerman
44. Chris Chelios
45. Valeri Kharlamov
46. Evgeni Malkin
47. Ken Dryden
48. King Clancy
49. Henri Richard
50. Milt Schmidt
51. Paul Coffey
52. Vladislav Tretiak
53. Pierre Pilote
54. Frank Brimsek
55. Syl Apps Sr.
56. Sprague Cleghorn
57. Chris Pronger
58. Scott Stevens
59. Teemu Selanee
60. Charlie Conacher
61. Ted Kennedy
62. Bernie Geoffrion
63. Andy Bathgate
64. Earl Siebert
65. Marcel Dionne
66. Georges Vezina
67. Tim Horton
68. Al MacInnis
69. Dickie Moore
70. Anatoli Firsov
71. Boris Mikhailov
72. Frank Mahovlich
73. Clint Benedict
74. Joe Malone
75. Dit Clapper
76. Charlie Gardiner
77. Jari Kurri
78. Aurele Joliat
79. Max Bentley
80. Brett Hull
81. Patrick Kane
82. Cy Denneny
83. Bill Durnan
84. Elmer Lach
85. Mark Howe
86. Turk Broda
87. Borje Salming
88. Eric Lindros
89. Bill Cowley
90. Ed Belfour
91. Sergei Fedorov
92. Joe Thornton
93. Zdeno Chara
94. Norm Ullman
95. Eddie Gerard
96. Brian Leetch
97. Toe Blake
98. Pavel Bure
99. Nels Stewart
100. Duncan Keith
101. Alexander Maltsev
102. Jarome Iginla
103. Marty Berry
104. Bill Gadsby
105. Gilbert Perreault
106. Vladimir Krutov
107. Martin St. Louis
108. Serge Savard
109. Vladimir Martinec
110. Johnny Bower
111. Pavel Datsyuk
112. Peter Stastny
113. Bill Quackenbush
114. Jiri Holecek
115. Dave Keon
116. Erik Karlsson
117. Patrice Bergeron
118. Sid Abel
119. Busher Jackson
120. Vaclav Nedomansky
121. Georges Boucher
122. Doug Bentley
123. Russell Bowie
124. Jan Suchy
125. Henrik Lundqvist
126. Tony Esposito
127. Alex Delvecchio
128. Jacques Lemaire
129. Hap Holmes
130. Roberto Luongo
131. Ching Johnson
132. Adam Oates
133. Rod Langway
134. Ron Francis
135. Doug Gilmour
136. Bernie Parent
137. Valeri Vasiliev
138. Dale Hawerchuk
139. Ebbie Goodfellow
140. Guy Lapointe
141. Billy Smith
142. Hugh Lehman
143. Mike Modano
144. Vladimir Petrov
145. Roy Worters
146. Connor McDavid
147. Luc Robitaille
148. Scott Niedermayer
149. Drew Doughty
150. George Hainsworth
151. John Bucyk
152. Steven Stamkos
153. Frank McGee
154. Grant Fuhr
155. Frantisek Pospisil
156. Sweeney Schriner
157. Marian Hossa
158. Henrik Zetterberg
159. Tiny Thompson
160. Mark Recchi
161. Anze Kopitar
162. Tommy Phillips
163. John LeClair
164. Hooley Smith
165. Alexei Kasatonov
166. Carey Price
167. Marcel Pronovost
168. Lionel Coancher
169. Harry Cameron
170. Tuukka Rask
171. Mats Sundin
172. Denis Savard
173. Jack Stewart
174. Shea Weber
175. Hod Stuart
176. Rick Middleton
177. Viacheslav Starshinov
178. Roy Conacher
179. Jonathan Toews
180. Frank Fredrickson
181. Babe Dye
182. Bert Olmstead
183. Paul Kariya
184. Miikka Kiprusoff
185. Mike Grant
186. Jacques Laperriere
187. Alexander Yakushev
188. J.C. Tremblay
189. Yvan Cournoyer
190. Cam Neely
191. Mickey MacKay
192. Igor Larionov
193. Daniel Alfredsson
194. Tommy Dunderdale
195. Syd Howe
196. Bryan Hextall Sr
197. Duke Keats
198. Theo Fleury
199. Babe Siebert
200 Helmut Balderis
201. Bernie Morris
202. George Armstrong
203. Victor Hedman
204. Harvey Pulford
205. Didier Pitre
206. Neil Colville
207. Rogie Vachon
208. Chuck Rayner
209. Harry Howell
210. Alf Smith
211. Gordie Drillon
212. Harry Lumley
213. Lester Patrick
214. Joe Primeau
215. Nikita Kucherov
216. Frank Patrick
217. Tom Paton
218. Frank Foyston
219. Harry Trihey
220. Ken Reardon

 

[Elvis P]

Pls delete

 

[ted2019]

Curious if the aggregate list will come out soon.

 

[Overrated]

Imagine putting Hasek at number 30 while putting some random guys from the 50s in the top10.

 

[Theokritos]

Imagine putting Hasek at number 30 while putting some random guys from the 50s in the top10.

Yes, that would have been crazy. Fortunately I didn't happen and no "random player" was put in the top 10.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Yes, that would have been crazy. Fortunately I didn't happen and no "random player" was put in the top 10.

Little does he know that the top-12 is actually just the gallery of player headshots that appeared on Hockey-Reference one day.

My current GOAT is Austin Wagner, but Sam Lafferty and Chico Resch make strong cases as well.