Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Voting Results (Part 1)

[wetcoast]

I can think of about three posters who had a straight Fedorov ballot...I'm assuming, though, that would mathematically affect the results...

I'm not a voter but if I were I would have listed 10 different names.

I'm not sure if this glitch is more interesting or frustrating as the next round might be more interesting to move on to.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Let's give quoipourquoi a break here, he's been doing a great job.It's his call.He cannot be second-guessed every week like that.

It does suck that someone sent a mistaken ballot though, but shit happens.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

If the start of next round is delayed much longer, then maybe the start of voting should be delayed.

It's not easy to post detailed information on multiple players in only 2-3 days.

I'd 100% be okay with this delay if it was because QPQ had something come up in real life that required him take his attention away from us for a day or two - administering this thing is quite time-consuming, and everyone here, including QPQ, is a volunteer.

But I'm not a fan of losing 1/4 of our discussion time waiting for an invalid ballot to be fixed yet again.

 

[blogofmike]

If the start of next round is delayed much longer, then maybe the start of voting should be delayed.

It's not easy to post detailed information on multiple players in only 2-3 days.

I'd 100% be okay with this delay if it was because QPQ had something come up in real life that required him take his attention away from us for a day or two - administering this thing is quite time-consuming, and everyone here, including QPQ, is a volunteer.

But I'm not a fan of losing 1/4 of our discussion time waiting for an invalid ballot to be fixed yet again.

It's late in the game, but if this happens again, I propose we get the new names and get to talk about them amongst each other, before seeing which holdovers remain.

 

[VanIslander]

There's no hurry, is there?

I personally don't expect off-line concerns to becone an obstacle until summer (well, mid-May at the earliest).

Until then, ... we're good.

 

[Canadiens1958]

There's no hurry, is there?

I personally don't expect off-line concerns to becone an obstacle until summer (well, mid-May at the earliest).

Until then, ... we're good.

Put the time to good use. Source the Bobrov quote.

 

[bobholly39]

If your vote isn't in on sunday 9pm shouldn't you just be disqualified? Maybe give them an hour or so to correct - but if they don't respond, disqualify?

We have ~25 or so votes per round, i don't think disqualifying 1 hurts the pool that badly.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Going forward without it.

Will post the results when I build the table, but I’ll do the new thread first.

Charlie Gardiner - 177
Jari Kurri - 154
Max Bentley - 144
Aurele Joliat - 139
Cy Denneny - 131

Brett Hull - 124
Bill Durnan - 114
Turk Broda - 109
Boris Mikhailov - 88
Sergei Fedorov - 85

 

[MXD]

I strongly suggest delaying V17 by a week. We're not in danger of having to rank players during summer vacations anyway.

 

[MXD]

Going forward without it.

Will post the results when I build the table, but I’ll do the new thread first.

Charlie Gardiner - 177
Jari Kurri - 154
Max Bentley - 144
Aurele Joliat - 139
Cy Denneny - 131

Brett Hull - 124
Bill Durnan - 114
Turk Broda - 109
Boris Mikhailov - 88
Sergei Fedorov - 85

Just a hunch here : Pretty sure Gardiner would've finished ahead of Benedict last round, and Gardiner over Clapper is something I would REALLY have thrown my weight at. That lead in this round is not small. Similar to Apps over Dryden of many rounds ago.

We have our first player who officially ranked too low, in that Gardiner was on his first vote of eligibility and, going by the results, there's no way he would NOT have been amongst the first five players last round. Shame.

On the results : Well... most people commented that this crop of new players was very strong. I think it shows. Durnan also appears to have regressed.

 

[bobholly39]

Going forward without it.

Will post the results when I build the table, but I’ll do the new thread first.

Charlie Gardiner - 177
Jari Kurri - 154
Max Bentley - 144
Aurele Joliat - 139
Cy Denneny - 131

Brett Hull - 124
Bill Durnan - 114
Turk Broda - 109
Boris Mikhailov - 88
Sergei Fedorov - 85

Man super lame......Kurri 154 to Hull 124. How does this happen?

Kurri played in higher scoring era (high flying 80s) moreso than Hull
Out of ALL OF THE PLAYERS we're going to rank in this project - there will not be a single player up for discussion at any point who benefited from teammates more than Kurri. Great player of course - but his results are FULL of Gretzky effect, in regular season and playoffs. Despite that - Hull and Kurri have practically equal number of games played, points and PPG. To me there should be a very clear edge to Hull in regular season.

That's without counting his insane peak seasons. Whereas Kurri has practically 0 hart votes in his career.

Playoff career numbers aren't even that far apart - which is pretty impressive considering Hull played over 50% of his playoff games past age 33 - compared to about 12% of his games for Kurri.

To me these are two very easy wingers to compare considering how closely they played - and Hull is clearly superior. Really disappointed with how so many voters continue to disregard offense in this project.

 

[ted2019]

Man super lame......Kurri 154 to Hull 124. How does this happen?

Kurri played in higher scoring era (high flying 80s) moreso than Hull
Out of ALL OF THE PLAYERS we're going to rank in this project - there will not be a single player up for discussion at any point who benefited from teammates more than Kurri. Great player of course - but his results are FULL of Gretzky effect, in regular season and playoffs. Despite that - Hull and Kurri have practically equal number of games played, points and PPG. To me there should be a very clear edge to Hull in regular season.

That's without counting his insane peak seasons. Whereas Kurri has practically 0 hart votes in his career.

Playoff career numbers aren't even that far apart - which is pretty impressive considering Hull played over 50% of his playoff games past age 33 - compared to about 12% of his games for Kurri.

To me these are two very easy wingers to compare considering how closely they played - and Hull is clearly superior. Really disappointed with how so many voters continue to disregard offense in this project.

Kurri = great 2 way player
Hull = 1 dimensional player who was useless unless he scored.

 

[ted2019]

Going forward without it.

Will post the results when I build the table, but I’ll do the new thread first.

Charlie Gardiner - 177
Jari Kurri - 154
Max Bentley - 144
Aurele Joliat - 139
Cy Denneny - 131

Brett Hull - 124
Bill Durnan - 114
Turk Broda - 109
Boris Mikhailov - 88
Sergei Fedorov - 85

4 out of my top 5 made it with the exact order. Only I had Durnan 5th & Denneny 6th.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, Kurri being better than Hull makes a ton of sense...that's not to say Kurri didn't benefit from Gretzky, but if you saw Kurri, you knew he was talented unto himself...plus, he basically had center defensive duties for Gretzky...

 

[quoipourquoi]

4 out of my top 5 made it with the exact order. Only I had Durnan 5th & Denneny 6th.

Check your messages!

 

[wetcoast]

Kurri = great 2 way player
Hull = 1 dimensional player who was useless unless he scored.

How does that explain the low total for Fedorov though?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Fedorov wasn't as great of a producer as Kurri was...and Kurri had much less insulation defensively...

 

[Thenameless]

Fedorov wasn't as great of a producer as Kurri was...and Kurri had much less insulation defensively...

I'm not a part of this project, so I don't even know if I should chime in here.

If I mentally put Fedorov into Kurri's spot (same age and all), riding shotgun to Gretzky, I can see similar individual and team results happening. On the other hand, I'm not sure if Kurri was capable of pulling off, that one special Hart/Selke season that Fedorov had with Detroit.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Going forward without it.

Will post the results when I build the table, but I’ll do the new thread first.

Charlie Gardiner - 177
Jari Kurri - 154
Max Bentley - 144
Aurele Joliat - 139
Cy Denneny - 131

Brett Hull - 124
Bill Durnan - 114
Turk Broda - 109
Boris Mikhailov - 88
Sergei Fedorov - 85

I must be getting old... I swear it reads as if Gretzky's acolyte Kurri is second in voting for that round. Poor Brett Hull... no rewards for being an exceptionally efficient producer of goals - you know, the thing that either wins or loses games. Meanwhile, Kurri, who is given a lot of credit for simply backchecking in an era where scorers focused on scoring, makes it to number two. Meanwhile, a superior two-way forward is last (although I always thought that Federov was also overrated, so I don't really have too many qualms about that).

 

[MXD]

I'm not a part of this project, so I don't even know if I should chime in here.

If I mentally put Fedorov into Kurri's spot (same age and all), riding shotgun to Gretzky, I can see similar individual and team results happening. On the other hand, I'm not sure if Kurri was capable of pulling off, that one special Hart/Selke season that Fedorov had with Detroit.

Oh, you can chime in for sure. There has been much worse contributions from non-participants, don't worry (and that's an euphemism)

First of all, Kurri was a winger, which makes things... different as to how it would've worked in Detroit. I mean, he could play center, but...
Second, okay for team results (... but keep in mind that Kurri was the Oilers' 4th best player), but individual results? Fedorov was never a big producer when he wasn't THE guy and, will all due respect to Fedorov, he wouldn't have been. He wouldn't even have been the second guy.
Third, Fedorov is a lot like Leetch, in that there's some tendency to assume he always played like he did during his one big season/moments. If it was the case... Fedorov would've been voted in a few rounds ago. I mean, I know I would've voted him in. But it was not the case, regardless of what his group of defenders would say.
Fourth, Mike's point regarding defensive insulation was really apt.

 

[Michael Farkas]

I'm not a part of this project, so I don't even know if I should chime in here.

If I mentally put Fedorov into Kurri's spot (same age and all), riding shotgun to Gretzky, I can see similar individual and team results happening. On the other hand, I'm not sure if Kurri was capable of pulling off, that one special Hart/Selke season that Fedorov had with Detroit.

Sounds fine and dandy...but that's giving Fedorov a ton (more) of mileage out of the one season that really puts him on the map...that's the "look what he could have done!" season and it kept him in our purview as a result...because that season was truly magnificent...and maybe Kurri's absolute best couldn't match that (his first season without Gretzky, he did drop like 50 goals, 100 points and was a 2nd team AS like usual...so he was no Cheechoo)...but Kurri's "good" or "very good" was as good or better than Fedorov's "good" or "very good"...

In other words, Kurri without Gretzky isn't here necessarily...but he's probably on the radar...Fedorov without 1994 probably isn't...

At some point - and I don't know where exactly - you have to draw the line between what could have been and what actually was...Fedorov gets a lot of mileage out of what could have been, it's a big part of why he's going to end up on this list over Francis and Thornton...

 

[Thenameless]

Thanks for the clarity gents. Basically, a little too much mental gymnastics on my part, romanticizing the "one year".

 

[DannyGallivan]

Thanks for the clarity gents. Basically, a little too much mental gymnastics on my part, romanticizing the "one year".

I recall the years around Federov's peak. Even when he wasn't winning the big hardware, he was usually mentioned among the top few players in the world for a few years. I think Lindros should have come up before Federov, but I have to give him his due.

 

[MXD]

Thanks for the clarity gents. Basically, a little too much mental gymnastics on my part, romanticizing the "one year".

Oh, don't worry about that. There's also this thing called "having an opinion". We, as a group, might have been a tad severe over Fedorov... But it's certainly a fact that he was romanticized into something he never quite was (after his great season) due to that very season.

And frankly. I don't know why such a thing happened to him (and to Brian Leetch, although specifics are different), but didn't happen to another player of that era who was absolutely lights out in a few specific moments, yet was never made into something he wasn't : Miikka Kiprusoff?

Is it the Big Market Effect? The XXXXXXXX Fanbase Effect? The Flag-Waving Effect?

 

[BenchBrawl]

My Top 5 is in, nice.