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Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time - Round 2, Vote 7

Dr John Carlson

Dr John Carlson

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Dec 21, 2011
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Exam season is over for me so I can sink my teeth into this round a little more.

- Had Brodeur as #1 last round, this round he might be the easiest #1 since Gretzky for me.

- Cook has a great chance to make it. Remained a strong contributor until he was 40 during a time when players generally declined at a younger age... I wonder if part of that longevity can be attributed to getting a late start to professional hockey? Maybe less wear and tear on the body?

- Had Lindsay as one of the highest ranked among these players on my initial list but I've reconsidered that one a bit based off of discussions on Howe/Kelly. He's probably the one I'm most interested in reading about... his VsX looks incredible for a player at this stage of the project, but so did Phil Esposito, and he got knocked down because of the Orr factor. How great is the Howe and Kelly factor for Ted Lindsay?
 
Canadiens1958

Canadiens1958

Registered User
Nov 30, 2007
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Lake Memphremagog, QC.
Dr John Carlson said:
Exam season is over for me so I can sink my teeth into this round a little more.

- Had Brodeur as #1 last round, this round he might be the easiest #1 since Gretzky for me.

- Cook has a great chance to make it. Remained a strong contributor until he was 40 during a time when players generally declined at a younger age... I wonder if part of that longevity can be attributed to getting a late start to professional hockey? Maybe less wear and tear on the body?

- Had Lindsay as one of the highest ranked among these players on my initial list but I've reconsidered that one a bit based off of discussions on Howe/Kelly. He's probably the one I'm most interested in reading about... his VsX looks incredible for a player at this stage of the project, but so did Phil Esposito, and he got knocked down because of the Orr factor. How great is the Howe and Kelly factor for Ted Lindsay?
Click to expand...

Bill Cook extended WWI service into 1919:

Bill Cook - Wikipedia

See early life.
 
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Michael Farkas

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
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Yeah, Brodeur is an easy one/#1 here...I don't think it's particularly close either...it's a little bit of a crime, let's call it a petty misdemeanor, that he wasn't put in last round...I also had him in my top 20 in my prelim and I hate goalies in this thing...not top 30 for him is a tough way to go...

Larry Robinson is a guy that I think should get a long, long look despite being new to this...he's a strong early candidate for my top 3, he was an absolute force out there...

I'm actually anti-Ted Lindsay, relatively speaking, in the same way that I didn't care as much for Maurice Richard as much as the rest of the group...Lindsay just plays this hard working, but not overly intelligent game it seems like...incomplete player, forced into the NHL early because he came in during some pretty weak times (mid to late 40's)...he's got a boatload of AS teams, but the combination of him being on the best line in hockey and facing a boatload of zeroes for LW competition until Dickie Moore came along makes me wary of that given what I've seen of him...
 
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ChiTownPhilly

ChiTownPhilly

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Feb 23, 2010
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quoipourquoi said:
Vote 7 Candidates
  • Bill Cook
  • Bryan Trottier
  • Cyclone Taylor
  • Joe Sakic
  • Larry Robinson
  • Martin Brodeur
  • Mike Bossy
  • Newsy Lalonde
  • Steve Yzerman
  • Ted Lindsay
Terry Sawchuk
Click to expand...
My preliminary list, positions 26-34:
26. Nominee
27. Nominee
28. Nominee
29. Not yet nominated
30. Nominee
31. Nominee
32. Advanced already
33. Nominee
34. Nominee

Four of the above are holdovers; three are new arrivals.

This is gonna get interesting...
 
TheDevilMadeMe

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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Joe Sakic posts from last round

17 straight years as a relevant offensive player:
TheDevilMadeMe said:
Joe Sakic's consistency as a top 20 scorer

Points finishes listed:

1989-90: 10th
1991-91: 6th
1991-92: 14th
1992-93: 17th
1993-94: 19th
1994-95: 4th
1995-96: 3rd
1996-97: missed 17 games, but 11th in points-per-game
1997-98: missed 18 games, but 17th in points-per-game
1998-99: 5th
1999-00: 8th
2000-01: 2nd
2001-02: 5th
2002-03: missed 24 games, but 16th in points-per-game
2003-04: 2nd
2005-06: 17th
2006-07: 6th

For 17 straight seasons, Sakic was either top 20 in points or top 20 in points per game
Click to expand...

Sakic's underrated prime, at the height of the dead puck era. Includes his 3 straight top 10 Selke finishes:

TheDevilMadeMe said:

Joe Sakic's underrated prime

Joe Sakic has a reputation as a guy who was an elite player for a long time, but who didn't necessarily have the peak of some of these other guys. And while I agree that Sakic was an elite player for an extraordinary period of time (first top 10 finish in scoring in 1989-90; last top 10 finish in scoring in 2006-07), I think he did have a standout mid/late career peak that is incredibly underrated historically.

I think Sakic's peak is underrated for three main reasons:

1) Scoring dropped like a rock in the mid 90s, right as Sakic was entering his peak, so his raw stats don't stand out at you.

2) Sakic (like Jagr) had the bad luck of following in the footsteps of Gretzky and Lemieux, probably the two greatest offensive threats of all-time. Hockey fans got spoiled watching Gretzky and then Lemieux, and the greatest players after then just couldn't live up to the eye test. I think this most affected perceptions of Sakic (the best center to follow Gretzky/Lemieux domination) and Jagr.

3) Of Colorado's three superstars, Sakic was the quietest and least flashy.

Joe Sakic's 1995-2004 prime in statistics

Early peak
1994-95: 4th in points, 5th in points per game
1995-96: 3rd in points (behind Mario and Jagr), 5th in points per game

1996 playoffs: 18 goals (3rd all time behind Kurri and Leach), 34 points
2nd place in the playoffs (Mario Lemieux) had 27 points. 2nd best on Colorado was Valeri Kamensky with 21 points.

Injury troubles

Sakic missed 18 then 17 games in 1996-97 and 1997-98. He still had good stats (74 points in 65 games, 63 points in 64 games), but not good enough to finish top 10.

Sakic did finish with 25 points in the 1997 playoffs, however, only 1 point behind 1st place Eric Lindros, despite not making the finals.

Later career peak - Sakic's absolute peak - 1998-2004

This is the period to really focus on, and where I think Sakic is really hurt by the fact that his absolute peak corresponds almost perfectly to the deadest of the dead puck era.

1998-99: 5th in points with 96 points in 73 games. 3rd in points-per-game behind Jagr and Selanne.

1999-00: 8th in points, despite playing 60 games. 2nd in points-per-game to Jagr:

Points Per Game
1. Jaromir Jagr-PIT 1.52
2. Joe Sakic*-COL 1.35
3. Pavel Bure*-FLA 1.27
4. Pierre Turgeon-STL 1.27
5. Paul Kariya-MDA 1.16

Would Sakic have kept up his pace over a full 82 games? His performance the next season indicates he probably would have.

2000-01: Sakic was the best player in the league by a wide margin:

1. Jaromir Jagr-PIT 121
2. Joe Sakic*-COL 118
3. Patrik Elias-NJD 96
4. Martin Straka-PIT 95
Alex Kovalev-PIT 95

Sakic was 20 points ahead of Jagr around Christmastime before Mario Lemieux came out of retirement and starting boosting Jagr's stats. (Lemieux actually finished ahead of Jagr in Hart voting). In addition to his offense, Sakic had become an excellent defensive player by this point,* regularly killing penalties and being matched up against the opponent's best lines.

*he finished 2nd in Selke voting. Probably didn't deserve to finish that high, but it was a normal finish under the standards of the time (best defensive player among the league's leading scorers always got a lot of votes).

2001 playoffs: Sakic led the NHL in goals and points, while also taking on a large defensive role. He and Roy carried the Avalanche after Forsberg's spleen injury.

2001-02: Sakic followed up his 2000-01 season by being named MVP of the 2002 Olympics. All that hockey (and Colorado's new defensive system that they adopted after losing Forsberg for the season and Bourque to retirement) took a toll on Sakic, as he dropped to 5th in NHL scoring in a fairly weak year for forwards. Sakic looked somewhat tired by the time the playoffs came around

2002-03: Sakic is injured and Forsberg takes over the team. Sakic did score 58 points in 58 games, however.

2003-04: 2nd in points, 7th in points per game.

Forsberg was the better player at this point when healthy, but how many people remember that Sakic quietly tied for 2nd in NHL scoring in 2003-04?

Sakic's Selke record

All the above focuses on Sakic's offense. And while that was the best part of his game, he developed into an excellent two-way player during the second half of his career, often taking the toughest defensive assignments for Colorado and killing penalties. And unlike a lot of other players, Sakic was at his offensive best when he was also at his defensive best.

Via Hockey Outsider, Sakic was top 10 in points and Selke voting three times in his career:

1999-00: 8th in points (and 2nd in points-per-game), 10th in Selke voting
2000-01: 2nd in points (to Mario-aided Jagr), 2nd in Selke voting
2001-02: 5th in points, 9th in Selke voting

Kurri was 1st with 6 seasons in the top 10 in points and Selke voting, with Francis 2nd with 4 of each. Sakic, Gilmour, Datsyuk, and Forsberg were next best, with 3 each.

Top 10 in Scoring & Selke Voting
Click to expand...

Sakic's ranks significantly higher than Clarke, Trottier, or Yzerman in all of top 5, top 10, or top 20 finishes (Hockey Outsider already posted their VsX numbers)

TheDevilMadeMe said:
Sakic: 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10, 14, 17, 17, 19
Trottier: 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14
Clarke: 2, 2, 5, 6, 8, 8, 10, 13
Yzerman: 3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10, 12, 12, 13, 16, 19

Top 5 finishes:
Sakic 6
Clarke 3
Trottier 3
Yzerman 3

Top 10 finishes
Sakic 10
Clarke 7
Trottier 6
Yzerman 6

Top 20 finishes
Sakic 14
Yzerman 11
Clarke 8
Trottier 8

Conclusion: Sakic easily trumps Trottier, Clarke, and Yzerman as a regular season offensive producer.

I think that Clarke's all-time elite defense MIGHT be enough to make up the gap... maybe. Trottier and Yzerman were probably both better defensively than Sakic, but not enough to make up for the large gap in offensive longevity.
Click to expand...

Add in Sakic's record in clutch situations (1996 playoffs, 2001 playoffs, 2002 Olympics, 2004 World Cup / playoff OT record), and I think he looks quite good this round.
 
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seventieslord

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Hockey Outsider said:
Hart trophy voting results (1945-2018, minimum 5% vote share)

Player1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th+Total
Martin Brodeur3227
Bryan Trottier1214
Joe Sakic1124
Terry Sawchuk134
Ted Lindsay1113
Mike Bossy112
Steve Yzerman112
Larry Robinson11
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
VsX results (1927-2018)

Player 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th 7YR 10YR
Ted Lindsay 116.4 113.0 110.4 101.6 100.0 100.0 89.4 86.7 70.4 69.9 104.4 95.8
Joe Sakic 122.9 100.0 100.0 94.8 89.7 88.6 87.8 87.7 86.2 82.1 97.7 94.0
Mike Bossy 108.6 100.0 97.5 95.2 88.1 87.2 86.7 83.5 77.3 69.4 94.8 89.4
Bryan Trottier 115.5 112.8 91.7 87.8 87.4 80.6 79.8 76.3 71.8 68.6 93.7 87.2
Steve Yzerman 111.5 98.4 93.9 92.6 88.8 84.0 83.3 79.2 78.0 77.9 93.2 88.8
Larry Robinson 81.0 63.0 59.6 58.2 52.6 50.8 50.4 46.3 40.1 37.0 59.4 53.9
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Lindsay looks a lot better than expected here.
Click to expand...

I have cook at 103 for 7 year, and 96 for 10 year.

Lindsay's offensive results can't exactly be taken at face value...
 
Kyle McMahon

Kyle McMahon

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May 10, 2006
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BenchBrawl said:
The question mark with Bill Cook is his playoff performances.Wish I had the time in the last few weeks to prepare a "every playoff game" mega-post for Lalonde and Cook, but I wasn't able to do it.I might try to do it in-extremis this week, but can't promise anything.
Click to expand...

I'll be able to present the game summary's from Trail of the Stanley Cup for all of Cook's and Lalonde's career playoff games.

I have the old boys leading the charge for me at the start of this round. A good case has already been started for Bill Cook. I did end up having Taylor in my top 5 last round, and him and Newsy should be close a close comparison. Newsy has that Mark Messier quality. Violent in an era where it was an accepted part of the game, question is did he hurt his teams at times by crossing the line?

I am still hard-pressed to envision Sakic making my top 5. Too early for Yzerman IMO. A deep-dive comparison between Sakic and Trottier seems like it would be appropriate at this point (and sure, throw Yzerman in there if you think he belongs too). Time permitting, I'll try to come up with something if nobody else has by that point.
 
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Kyle McMahon

Kyle McMahon

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May 10, 2006
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seventieslord said:
Is Taylor really a lock over Lalonde? Lalonde had to have what, twice as many great seasons, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think it's a lock at all. I'll build a run-down of Lalonde's career similar to the one I did for Taylor last round. I think I had Cyclone ahead on my initial list, but I'm approaching this as a toss-up right now.
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

TheDevilMadeMe

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REPOST FROM THE HOH TOP CENTERS LIST

Cyclone Taylor's historical significance

Here are some excerts from the book The Patricks: Hockey's Royal Family . Brothers Lester and Frank Patrick were the founders of the PCHA, as well as players and managers of their respective teams.

From early in Taylor's career:
pg 100 said:
As usual, it was Taylor who stole the show and got raves such as "...Taylor's cyclonic rushes electrified the audience..." and "...the player they so aptly call 'Cyclone' almost literally explodes with excitement. There is nothing quite like him in American sport..."
Click to expand...

The book then documents the Patrick's efforts at luring Taylor out west - to them, getting Taylor to join the PCHA was the key to the success of the fledgling league:

pg 110 said:
Attendance picked up a little as the season wore on, but Frank was resigned to the fact that he wouldn't fill his building until he had the game's greatest gate attraction, Cyclone Taylor.
Click to expand...

Note that Newsy Lalonde was a member of Frank Patricks' Vancouver Millionaries for The PCHA's inaugural 1911-12 season and even led the league in scoring, but Frank was still desperate to sign Cyclone.

From an East vs West All-Star game, when Taylor was still in the East:

pg 113 said:
The story of the game is more fully told in my earlier book, "Cyclone Taylor: A Hockey Legend", so suffice to say here that Taylor came out just like his nickname and all but blew the West All-Stars off the ice with his blinding speed and hell-for-leather aggressiveness. The arena was in an uproar as he broke up a rush, stole the puck, and then split the defense before slipping a silk-slick pass to Art Ross for the go-ahead goal. The fans were on their feet minutes later when Taylor repeated the maneuver, this time setting up Jack Darragh for the score. He got a two-minute ovation for that little gambit.

Frank Patrick, who had been beaten badly in the second rush, must have had mixed emotions.
Click to expand...

That offseason, Lalonde headed back East to Montreal, but Frank Patrick got his prize as Taylor signed with Vancouver. Taylor was to be paid $1800, the most money in hockey and $500 more than Lalonde had been paid the previous season.

pg 117 said:
Frank and Lester were delighted with the exchange, as their league now had hockey's number one prestige player, and he was cheap at the price
Click to expand...

Attendance of Vancouver games skyrocketed with Taylor on the team.

At Taylor's peak, he was a bigger star than Lalonde was at the time:

pg 74 said:
On the ice, the two (Patrick) brothers, even as every other player in the league including the redoubtable Lalonde, had to get used to the idea of playing second fiddle to Taylor, the master showman who hogged the headlines wherever he played.
Click to expand...

According to Frank Patrick, Cyclone Taylor's style of play inspired them to allow forward passing in the neutral zone, the first time forward passing was ever allowed in any way in any professional hockey league:

pg 75 said:
Of Taylor himself, Frank has written: "Taylor was the ultimate hockey player. There'll never be another like him. He was blessed with the complete skills, quite apart from a unique excitement he generated every time he stepped onto the ice. I watched him very closely, and some of our ideas, such as creating the two blue lines to open up the center-ice area for passing, were inspired by his marvelous style.
Click to expand...

(Original link from BillyShoes' ATD profile; commentary is mine)
 
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TheDevilMadeMe

TheDevilMadeMe

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Kyle McMahon said:
Yeah, I don't think it's a lock at all. I'll build a run-down of Lalonde's career similar to the one I did for Taylor last round. I think I had Cyclone ahead on my initial list, but I'm approaching this as a toss-up right now.
Click to expand...

I definitely could use a refresher on Newsy Lalonde. At this point, I wonder if he should be closer to Joe Malone than to Frank Nighbor.

To summarize for others, minor reasons to prefer Taylor to Lalonde from the HOH Top Centers project:

1) Taylor got 3 votes in the "best player of the half century" poll from 1950; Lalonde got 1 vote.
2) Taylor was inducted into the HHOF in 1947 - the first year for still living players. Lalonde had to wait a little bit.
3) Taylor was practically worshipped by PCHA fans, while Lalonde was overshadowed by Nighbor in the NHA/NHL

I realize none of this is exactly rigorous...

 
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MXD

MXD

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... And Lalonde outplayed Nighbor in the first few seasons of the NHL, which happened to be his last "prime" seasons.
 
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ImporterExporter

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
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Let's take a look at an overview on the F's this round. I left Cyclone and Newsy out because they were completely/partially pre NHL players.


Bill Cook:

Hart record * (Played the first portion of his career in WHL. 30 when he hit the NHL)
2, 2

AS record * (Same thing as Hart. 30 when he hit NHL and AS selections weren't made until 1930-31)
1, 1, 1, 2

Scoring finishes
1, 4, 4, 4, 7, 10

Adjusted PPG (HO project)
1.04

7 year VsX
96.0

10 year VsX
84.4

Goals finishes
1, 1, 1, 2, 5, 6, 6, 10

Assists finishes
3, 6, 8

Cup Wins
2 (I think he was average at best as a postseason player)

Smythes
NA


Bryan Trottier

Hart record
1, 2, 2, 3, 5

AS record
1, 1, 2, 2,

Scoring finishes
1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 10

Adjusted PPG (HO project)
1.03

7 year VsX
93.7

10 year VsX
87.2

Goals finishes
5, 5, 8

Assists finishes
1, 1, 2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 8

Cup Wins
6 (Trottier was a great playoff performer)

Smythes
1


Joe Sakic

Hart record
1, 6, 7, 7, 7, 9

AS record
1, 1, 1

Scoring Finishes
2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10

Adjusted PPG
1.23

7 year VsX
97.7

10 year VsX
94.0

Goal Finishes
2, 5, 6, 6, 10

Assist Finishes
3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 9

Cup Wins
2

Smythes
1


Mike Bossy

Hart record
3, 4, 6, 6, 7, 10

AS record
1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2

Scoring Finishes
2, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6,

Adjusted PPG
1.35

7 year VsX
94.8

10 year VsX
89.4

Goal Finishes
1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 7

Assist Finishes
4, 6, 9,

Cup Wins
4

Smythes
1


Steve Yzerman

Hart record
3, 4, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8,

AS record
1

Scoring Finishes
3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10

Adjusted PPG
1.11

7 year VsX
93.2

10 year VsX
88.8

Goal Finishes
2, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6

Assist Finishes
3, 3, 7, 7, 10

Cup Wins
3

Smythes
1


Ted Lindsay

Hart record
4, 7, 10

AS record
1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2

Scoring Finishes
1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 7, 9

Adjusted PPG
1.12

7 year VsX
104.4

10 year VsX
95.8

Goal Finishes
1, 2, 2, 3, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 9

Assist Finishes
1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 7, 9,

Cup Wins
4

Smythes
NA

 
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Captain Bowie

Captain Bowie

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Jan 18, 2012
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Point-Producing Prime:

PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Newsy Lalonde17/18-20/21781521.95
Joe Malone17/18-20/21721431.99106.3%98.1%
Cy Denneny17/18-20/21871331.53114.3%127.5%
Frank Nighbor17/18-20/21751181.57128.8%123.9%
Reg Noble17/18-20/21851111.31136.9%149.2%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bill Cook26/27-32/333142820.90
Howie Morenz26/27-32/333062990.9894.3%91.9%
Frank Boucher26/27-32/333122610.84108.0%107.4%
Nels Stewart26/27-32/332992470.83114.2%108.7%
Bun Cook26/27-32/333112190.70128.8%127.5%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Ted Lindsay47/48-56/575825660.97
Gordie Howe47/48-56/575946831.1582.9%84.6%
Maurice Richard47/48-56/575825480.94103.3%103.3%
Bert Olmstead47/48-56/575454000.73141.5%132.5%
Red Kelly47/48-56/576083820.63148.2%154.8%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bryan Trottier77/78-81/823845931.54
Marcel Dionne77/78-81/823885981.5499.2%100.2%
Mike Bossy77/78-81/823875851.51101.4%102.2%
Guy Lafleur77/78-81/823495401.55109.8%99.8%
Darryl Sittler77/78-81/823764671.24127.0%124.3%
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Mike Bossy77/78-85/8668910511.53
Marcel Dionne77/78-85/8669410171.47103.3%104.1%
Bryan Trottier77/78-85/866789481.40110.9%109.1%
Bernie Federko77/78-85/866878221.20127.9%127.5%
Rick Middleton77/78-85/866747561.12139.0%136.0%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Joe Sakic90/91-03/04100512381.23
Jaromir Jagr90/91-03/04102713091.2794.6%96.6%
Mark Recchi90/91-03/04108411321.04109.4%118.0%
Brett Hull90/91-03/04103611281.09109.8%113.1%
Adam Oates90/91-03/04101111191.11110.6%111.3%
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Steve Yzerman87/88-92/934667321.57
Luc Robitaille87/88-92/934786331.32115.6%118.6%
Pat LaFontaine87/88-92/934446111.38119.8%114.1%
Brett Hull87/88-92/934546021.33121.6%118.5%
Mark Messier87/88-92/934355961.37122.8%114.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
*Gretzky and Lemieux removed



Best Playoff Stretch:

PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bill Cook27/28-32/3338200.53
Frank Boucher27/28-32/3337280.7671.4%69.5%
Cooney Welland28/29-30/3116171.06117.6%49.5%
Bun Cook27/28-32/3338160.42125.0%125.0%
Murray Murdoch27/28-32/3338160.42125.0%125.0%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Ted Lindsay47/48-54/5567590.88
Gordie Howe47/48-54/5555611.1196.7%79.4%
Bernie Geoffrion50/51-54/5557400.70147.5%125.5%
Maurice Richard47/48-53/5457350.61168.6%143.4%
Alex Delvecchio51/52-54/5537330.89178.8%98.7%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bryan Trottier79/80-82/83751071.43
Mike Bossy79/80-82/83721111.5496.4%92.5%
Denis Potvin79/80-82/8378851.09125.9%130.9%
Bob Bourne79/80-82/8374741.00144.6%142.7%
Wayne Gretzky79/80-82/8333742.24144.6%63.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Mike Bossy77/78-85/86721111.54
Bryan Trottier79/80-82/83751071.43103.7%108.1%
Denis Potvin79/80-82/8378851.09130.6%141.5%
Bob Bourne79/80-82/8374741.00150.0%154.2%
Wayne Gretzky79/80-82/8333742.24150.0%68.8%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Steve Yzerman95/96-01/02102970.95
Joe Sakic95/96-01/021231371.1170.8%85.4%
Peter Forsberg95/96-01/021091291.1875.2%80.4%
Sergei Fedorov95/96-01/021091030.9494.2%100.6%
Brett Hull95/96-01/02107900.84107.8%113.1%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Joe Sakic95/96-00/011021181.16
Peter Forsberg95/96-00/01891021.15115.7%100.9%
Sergei Fedorov95/96-00/0186840.98140.5%118.4%
Jaromir Jagr95/96-00/0165801.23147.5%94.0%
Steve Yzerman95/96-00/0179740.94159.5%123.5%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Hard to include Lalonde, he only had 2 years in the NHL playoffs.


One thing I found interesting on Yzerman. It was impossible for find a stretch of a few consecutive seasons which didn't have him behind Sakic, Forsberg and Fedorov. That should tell me something right??
 
Last edited:
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blogofmike

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Dec 16, 2010
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Art of Sedinery said:
Point-Producing Prime:

PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Newsy Lalonde17/18-20/21781521.95
Joe Malone17/18-20/21721431.99106.3%98.1%
Cy Denneny17/18-20/21871331.53114.3%127.5%
Frank Nighbor17/18-20/21751181.57128.8%123.9%
Reg Noble17/18-20/21851111.31136.9%149.2%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bill Cook26/27-32/333142820.90
Howie Morenz26/27-32/333062990.9894.3%91.9%
Frank Boucher26/27-32/333122610.84108.0%107.4%
Nels Stewart26/27-32/332992470.83114.2%108.7%
Bun Cook26/27-32/333112190.70128.8%127.5%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Ted Lindsay47/48-56/575825660.97
Gordie Howe47/48-56/575946831.1582.9%84.6%
Maurice Richard47/48-56/575825480.94103.3%103.3%
Bert Olmstead47/48-56/575454000.73141.5%132.5%
Red Kelly47/48-56/576083820.63148.2%154.8%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bryan Trottier77/78-81/823845931.54
Marcel Dionne77/78-81/823885981.5499.2%100.2%
Mike Bossy77/78-81/823875851.51101.4%102.2%
Guy Lafleur77/78-81/823495401.55109.8%99.8%
Darryl Sittler77/78-81/823764671.24127.0%124.3%
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Mike Bossy77/78-85/8668910511.53
Marcel Dionne77/78-85/8669410171.47103.3%104.1%
Bryan Trottier77/78-85/866789481.40110.9%109.1%
Bernie Federko77/78-85/866878221.20127.9%127.5%
Rick Middleton77/78-85/866747561.12139.0%136.0%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Joe Sakic90/91-03/04100512381.23
Jaromir Jagr90/91-03/04102713091.2794.6%96.6%
Mark Recchi90/91-03/04108411321.04109.4%118.0%
Brett Hull90/91-03/04103611281.09109.8%113.1%
Adam Oates90/91-03/04101111191.11110.6%111.3%
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Steve Yzerman87/88-92/934667321.57
Luc Robitaille87/88-92/934786331.32115.6%118.6%
Pat LaFontaine87/88-92/934446111.38119.8%114.1%
Brett Hull87/88-92/934546021.33121.6%118.5%
Mark Messier87/88-92/934355961.37122.8%114.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
*Gretzky and Lemieux removed


Goal-Scoring Prime:

PlayerSeasonsGamesGoalsGPGMarginGPG Margin
Newsy Lalonde17/18-20/21781521.95
Joe Malone17/18-20/21721431.99106.3%98.1%
Cy Denneny17/18-20/21871331.53114.3%127.5%
Frank Nighbor17/18-20/21751181.57128.8%123.9%
Reg Noble17/18-20/21851111.31136.9%149.2%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesGoalsGPGMarginGPG Margin
Bill Cook26/27-32/333142820.90
Howie Morenz26/27-32/333062990.9894.3%91.9%
Frank Boucher26/27-32/333122610.84108.0%107.4%
Nels Stewart26/27-32/332992470.83114.2%108.7%
Bun Cook26/27-32/333112190.70128.8%127.5%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesGoalsGPGMarginGPG Margin
Ted Lindsay47/48-56/575825660.97
Gordie Howe47/48-56/575946831.1582.9%84.6%
Maurice Richard47/48-56/575825480.94103.3%103.3%
Bert Olmstead47/48-56/575454000.73141.5%132.5%
Red Kelly47/48-56/576083820.63148.2%154.8%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesGoalsGPGMarginGPG Margin
Bryan Trottier77/78-81/823845931.54
Marcel Dionne77/78-81/823885981.5499.2%100.2%
Mike Bossy77/78-81/823875851.51101.4%102.2%
Guy Lafleur77/78-81/823495401.55109.8%99.8%
Darryl Sittler77/78-81/823764671.24127.0%124.3%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesGoalsGPGMarginGPG Margin
Mike Bossy77/78-85/8668910511.53
Marcel Dionne77/78-85/8669410171.47103.3%104.1%
Bryan Trottier77/78-85/866789481.40110.9%109.1%
Bernie Federko77/78-85/866878221.20127.9%127.5%
Rick Middleton77/78-85/866747561.12139.0%136.0%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesGoalsGPGMarginGPG Margin
Joe Sakic90/91-03/04100512381.23
Jaromir Jagr90/91-03/04102713091.2794.6%96.6%
Mark Recchi90/91-03/04108411321.04109.4%118.0%
Brett Hull90/91-03/04103611281.09109.8%113.1%
Adam Oates90/91-03/04101111191.11110.6%111.3%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesGoalsGPGMarginGPG Margin
Steve Yzerman87/88-92/934667321.57
Luc Robitaille87/88-92/934786331.32115.6%118.6%
Pat LaFontaine87/88-92/934446111.38119.8%114.1%
Brett Hull87/88-92/934546021.33121.6%118.5%
Mark Messier87/88-92/934355961.37122.8%114.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Best Playoff Stretch:

PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bill Cook27/28-32/3338200.53
Frank Boucher27/28-32/3337280.7671.4%69.5%
Cooney Welland28/29-30/3116171.06117.6%49.5%
Bun Cook27/28-32/3338160.42125.0%125.0%
Murray Murdoch27/28-32/3338160.42125.0%125.0%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Ted Lindsay47/48-54/5567590.88
Gordie Howe47/48-54/5555611.1196.7%79.4%
Bernie Geoffrion50/51-54/5557400.70147.5%125.5%
Maurice Richard47/48-53/5457350.61168.6%143.4%
Alex Delvecchio51/52-54/5537330.89178.8%98.7%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Bryan Trottier79/80-82/83751071.43
Mike Bossy79/80-82/83721111.5496.4%92.5%
Denis Potvin79/80-82/8378851.09125.9%130.9%
Bob Bourne79/80-82/8374741.00144.6%142.7%
Wayne Gretzky79/80-82/8333742.24144.6%63.6%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Mike Bossy77/78-85/86721111.54
Bryan Trottier79/80-82/83751071.43103.7%108.1%
Denis Potvin79/80-82/8378851.09130.6%141.5%
Bob Bourne79/80-82/8374741.00150.0%154.2%
Wayne Gretzky79/80-82/8333742.24150.0%68.8%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Steve Yzerman95/96-01/02102970.95
Joe Sakic95/96-01/021231371.1170.8%85.4%
Peter Forsberg95/96-01/021091291.1875.2%80.4%
Sergei Fedorov95/96-01/021091030.9494.2%100.6%
Brett Hull95/96-01/02107900.84107.8%113.1%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
PlayerSeasonsGamesPointsPPGMarginPPG Margin
Joe Sakic95/96-00/011021181.16
Peter Forsberg95/96-00/01891021.15115.7%100.9%
Sergei Fedorov95/96-00/0186840.98140.5%118.4%
Jaromir Jagr95/96-00/0165801.23147.5%94.0%
Steve Yzerman95/96-00/0179740.94159.5%123.5%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
Hard to include Lalonde, he only had 2 years in the NHL playoffs.


One thing I found interesting on Yzerman. It was impossible for find a stretch of a few consecutive seasons which didn't have him behind Sakic, Forsberg and Fedorov. That should tell me something right??
Click to expand...

Are Goals and GP flipped in Goals Per Game charts?
 
Captain Bowie

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
4,414
The more I look at it, the more I like Bossy in comparison to Trottier. Longer peak/prime. Leading playoff scorer of the cups years. Despite playing longer, Trottier doesn't add a lot to his case after Bossy retired at 30. How much does his being a role player on the Penguins cup teams add?
 
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ImporterExporter

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
18,848
7,879
Oblivion Express
Art of Sedinery said:
The more I look at it, the more I like Bossy in comparison to Trottier. Longer peak/prime. Leading playoff scorer of the cups years. Despite playing longer, Trottier doesn't add a lot to his case after Bossy retired at 30. How much does his being a role player on the Penguins cup teams add?
Click to expand...

Bossy also didn't bring things to the table that Trots did.

Leadership. Elite toughness. PK ability. Good defense at ES. Great in the dot. Things that aren't sexy or show up in the box score much.

Trots won a Hart and his record there is much stronger because he was simply put, a more valuable, all around hockey player. Bossy really had no league comp at RW until Kurri came around in 1983.
 
Captain Bowie

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
4,414
ImporterExporter said:
Bossy also didn't bring things to the table that Trots did.

Leadership. Elite toughness. PK ability. Good defense at ES. Great in the dot. Things that aren't sexy or show up in the box score much.

Trots won a Hart and his record there is much stronger because he was simply put, a more valuable, all around hockey player. Bossy really had no league comp at RW until Kurri came around in 1983.
Click to expand...
All valid points. I do wonder how much was Trottier's offensive numbers tied to Bossy himself? He went from 72 to 123 points when Bossy joined the team, and his production tapered off long before Bossy's did. Bossy wasn't completely absent from Hart ballots himself.
 
TheDevilMadeMe

TheDevilMadeMe

Registered User
Aug 28, 2006
52,271
6,981
Brooklyn
ImporterExporter said:
Bossy also didn't bring things to the table that Trots did.

Leadership. Elite toughness. PK ability. Good defense at ES. Great in the dot. Things that aren't sexy or show up in the box score much.

Trots won a Hart and his record there is much stronger because he was simply put, a more valuable, all around hockey player. Bossy really had no league comp at RW until Kurri came around in 1983.
Click to expand...

Trottier was plenty tough, but he was no Potvin or Gillies.
 
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