Top 10 Swedish Hockey Players of All Time?

[Datsyukian Deke]

To see the greatness of Lidstrom just look at the Wings before and after. They still haven't recovered from his retirement.

That is thanks to the genius of Ken Holland for having literally nothing in place to help with when the time came for Nick to retire.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

This is about the top Swedes so why are you so obsessed about comparing Lidstrom with Bourque?

Secondly, you keep repeating this but these two both played 20 years and overlapped for 10 so how could one face the strongest competition ever while the other faced the weakest ever? Leetch was only two years older than Lidstrom, and MacInnis, Chelios, and Stevens were all still great players during Lidstrom’s early prime. Meanwhile, Bourque saw Wilson, Carlyle, and Langway take 4 Norris’ between them early on. You are clearly exaggerating for effect.

Bourque faced a great group of two-way guys in his prime but he didn’t face a young Fetisov, and Potvin and Robinson were often injured or inconsistent during his early years. Lidstrom faced all of the older and more established elite guys Bourque faced, plus his own age group, then the younger guys who came up later. It’s was a ton of different competition over his career compared to other generations so what makes it the weakest ever? Take a look at the competition for Harvey, Orr, or the years in between them. Far weaker overall and really only Canadians.

Even if their career overlapped, one still played against them when they all were younger at their prime/peak while the other one played against them when they were older past their prime/peak.

The real Lidstrom's competition was against an inconstant Pronger, Niedermayer and a late bloomer (Chara).

 

[danincanada]

Even if their career overlapped, one still played against them when they all were younger at their prime/peak while the other one played against them when they were older past their prime/peak.

The real Lidstrom's competition was against an inconstant Pronger, Niedermayer and a late bloomer (Chara).

It's clearly not as simple as Lidstrom facing the weakest competition of all-time and Bourque facing the strongest, which you've repeated multiple times recently. Hopefully you can at least admit that much.

Add Blake, Zubov, Gonchar, etc. to his list of direct elite peers. Again, Leetch was only 2 years older than Lidstrom, MacInnis was still great until the very end, Chelios was still great up until '02, and Stevens won a Conn Smythe in '00. Then Lidstrom still got enough love from voters to win his last Norris at the age of 41 against a whole new wave of defenders. There were basically 3 generations of elite international defenders in the league over the course of Lidstrom's career so to claim he didn't face stiff competition falls short. Even if his direct peers fell short against the early 90's guys it doesn't make it the weakest of all-time.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

It's clearly not as simple as Lidstrom facing the weakest competition of all-time and Bourque facing the strongest, which you've repeated multiple times recently. Hopefully you can at least admit that much.

Add Blake, Zubov, Gonchar, etc. to his list of direct elite peers. Again, Leetch was only 2 years older than Lidstrom, MacInnis was still great until the very end, Chelios was still great up until '02, and Stevens won a Conn Smythe in '00. Then Lidstrom still got enough love from voters to win his last Norris at the age of 41 against a whole new wave of defenders. There were basically 3 generations of elite international defenders in the league over the course of Lidstrom's career so to claim he didn't face stiff competition falls short. Even if his direct peers fell short against the early 90's guys it doesn't make it the weakest of all-time.

Lidstrom competed against elite defensemen but not all-time greats like Bourque did. Can you seriously tell me with a straight face there were top 10 all-time defensemen among the list of direct elite peers (Blake, Zubov, Gonchar, etc.) you told me? I don't think so.

Bourque on the other hand did compete against some of them (top 10 all-time defensemen) at their prime/peak and he still was the best of the bunch at the end.

I think Lidstrom is the greatest Swedish player of all-time even ahead Forsberg but no way he is the second best defenseman of all time or ahead Bourque on the all-time list.

 

[danincanada]

Lidstrom competed against elite defensemen but not all-time greats like Bourque did. Can you seriously tell me with a straight face there were top 10 all-time defensemen among the list of direct elite peers (Blake, Zubov, Gonchar, etc.) you told me? I don't think so.

Bourque on the other hand did compete against some of them (top 10 all-time defensemen) at their prime/peak and he still was the best of the bunch at the end.

I think Lidstrom is the greatest Swedish player of all-time even ahead Forsberg but no way he is the second best defenseman of all time or ahead Bourque on the all-time list.

Depends on who's making the list. Some believe Niedermayer is top 10 all-time, although I'm not one of them. Some say Pronger was, although I agree he wasn't exactly consistently dominant. Who were the top 10 all-time guys Bourque competed with? Chelios? I think the world of MacInnis and peak Leetch but most don't have them in the top 10 either. Coffey seems too one dimensional to most these days so he gets downgraded by many.

I tend to think that group in the late 80's/early 90's was very strong as well but I don't think the drop off to the next generation was as great as you originally portrayed. Lidstrom simply dominated that group in voting so the easiest way to diminish his dominance is to diminish the whole group. Pronger was a dominant force when at his best but he could only pull off one 1st team AS during his career, which points to it not being so easy.

I've seen the Lidstrom/Bourque debate beat to death. Lidstrom was better defensively and Bourque was better offensively. Bourque has more and longer regular season dominance over the course of his career but Lidstrom had a better playoff career with more team success. Flip a coin and you'll still get an all-time great. To me these two are the second and third best defenseman of all-time.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Why is Karlsson below guys lik Sundin and the Sedins? Those guys are "merely" 1st liners with longevity. Karlsson is an elite franchise player, an d future HOF lock before he's even 30.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

I've seen the Lidstrom/Bourque debate beat to death. Lidstrom was better defensively and Bourque was better offensively. Bourque has more and longer regular season dominance over the course of his career but Lidstrom had a better playoff career with more team success. Flip a coin and you'll still get an all-time great. To me these two are the second and third best defenseman of all-time.

Key word here, TEAM, put Bourque on those dominant Red Wings teams and Lidstrom on those average Bruins teams and guess who would have more team success. By the way Bourque's playoff numbers are great too, only 3 points less in 49 less games. Lidstrom is an all-time great too but at the end Bourque was just better plain and simple.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

I agree Lidstrom is probably first over Forsberg but put him 1st/2nd best defenseman of all time is the reason why he is clearly overrated too. No way he was better than Orr and Bourque.

Orr played against insurance salesmen.

 

[Seiza]

Why is Karlsson below guys lik Sundin and the Sedins? Those guys are "merely" 1st liners with longevity. Karlsson is an elite franchise player, an d future HOF lock before he's even 30.

From a Swedes point of view, it probably has to do with what they accomplished with the national team.

 

[joe dirte]

Why is Karlsson below guys lik Sundin and the Sedins? Those guys are "merely" 1st liners with longevity. Karlsson is an elite franchise player, an d future HOF lock before he's even 30.

You think hes a lock for the hall of fame at this point?

No way. If he retired today he wouldn't even be considered.

 

[joe dirte]

That is thanks to the genius of Ken Holland for having literally nothing in place to help with when the time came for Nick to retire.

And because it's impossible to have something to replace lidstrom "in the wings".

 

[Silky mitts]

Not to mention it's a full on bizarre comment that hes had among the best 3 year stretches ever when he has no norris trophies.

Bourque, coffee, langway and others all have consecutive norris trophies. So by that criteria he falls behind them for best 3 year stretch ever.

I'd also toss in pronger, niedermayer, Steven's, and many others in that category.

Karlsson won a Norris, had 2 runner ups, carried a bad team to the conference finals over a 3 year span, Lidstrom, Bourque and Coffey had 3 year point shares greater than Karlsson but they were all surrounded by great players.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Why is Karlsson below guys lik Sundin and the Sedins? Those guys are "merely" 1st liners with longevity. Karlsson is an elite franchise player, an d future HOF lock before he's even 30.

Sedins toyed with defenders in their prime they were that damn good. They made teams look stupid. Incredible international and NHL resume, with a huge trophy case including Hart & Art Ross.

Sundin was a beast in his prime, he could do it all, skate hit pass shoot. He also has a great international resume and has scored the most points ever by a Swedish player in NHL history.

Karlsson is an amazing offensive defencemen but has a lot of holes in his game that don’t show up on highlights and stat sheets. He will most likely surpass the Sedins & Sundin in the near future, but to call them merely first liners is an insult to their Greatness.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Orr played against insurance salesmen.

Really? Are you seriously trying to compare Orr to Lidstrom to justify your pointless point?

 

[ziggyjoe212]

You think hes a lock for the hall of fame at this point?

No way. If he retired today he wouldn't even be considered.

He 2 Norris trophies. He's not even 30 and he has accomplished more than Sundin and D. Sedin.

HOF is not only about longevity.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Sedins toyed with defenders in their prime they were that damn good. They made teams look stupid. Incredible international and NHL resume, with a huge trophy case including Hart & Art Ross.

Sundin was a beast in his prime, he could do it all, skate hit pass shoot. He also has a great international resume and has scored the most points ever by a Swedish player in NHL history.

Karlsson is an amazing offensive defencemen but has a lot of holes in his game that don’t show up on highlights and stat sheets. He will most likely surpass the Sedins & Sundin in the near future, but to call them merely first liners is an insult to their Greatness.

Sundin put up some good, consistent stats but he never accomplished anything in the NHL.
H. Sedins had a relatively short peak, reaching 80+ points merely 5 times. Sure he won an MVP, but EK won 2 Norris's and his peak is much longer than either of the Sedins'.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Top 10 Swedish Hockey Players of All time? (I posted top 15, didn’t know who to exclude from top 10)

1. Niklas Lidstrom
2. Peter Forsberg
3. Borje Salming
4. Mats Sundin
5. Kent Nilsson
6. Henrik Sedin
7. Daniel Sedin
8. Daniel Alfredson
9. Mats Naslund
10. Henrik Zetterberg
11. Markus Naslund
12. Erik Karlsson
13. Henrik Lundqvist
14. Niklas Backstrom
15. Pelle Lindbergh
16. HM: V. Hedman, H. Loob, T. Steen

Who’s in your top 10?

Your name should have given this away but Naslund over Karlsson, Lundqvist and Backstrom is downright absurd.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Your name should have given this away but Naslund over Karlsson, Lundqvist and Backstrom is downright absurd.

Unbiased list, however I do have a tendency to rank active players lower than retired players if they’re similar.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Unbiased list, however I do have a tendency to rank active players lower than retired players if they’re similar.

They aren't similar though. Not a single point could be made in Naslund's favour to put them above any 3 of those players. Mind elaborating on how you came to that conclusion?

 

[joe dirte]

Karlsson won a Norris, had 2 runner ups, carried a bad team to the conference finals over a 3 year span, Lidstrom, Bourque and Coffey had 3 year point shares greater than Karlsson but they were all surrounded by great players.

The post I responded to said hes just coming off one of the best three year stretches ever.

None of this has happened in the last 3 years.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

They aren't similar though. Not a single point could be made in Naslund's favour to put them above any 3 of those players. Mind elaborating on how you came to that conclusion?

Karlsson should be higher but he’s only 28, he will finish top 5 when he hangs them up so I didn’t give it too much thought as there is so much hockey left for him to play before we can accurately rank him, however I do see holes in his game that are often overlooked.

Goalies are difficult to rate amongst players, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see Lundqvist as high as 5 and as low as 15 on some lists. IMO what hurts Lundqvist is the lack of a Cup and only 1 Vezina. He’s in the the same boat as Luongo, terrific goalies but no where near the likes of Roy, Plante, Hasek, Hall, Brodeur, Dryden, Sawchuk,
Plante etc. Without a doubt he’s the best Swedish goalie of all time.

Comparing Näslund & Backstrom is a little easier as they’re both forwards. Näslund was nominated for the Hart Trophy and won the Ted Lindsay Award (formerly Lester B. Pearson). He also had Back to Back to Back 40+ goal seasons. Backstrom’s high is 33 goals, second highest is only 23.
Peak:
Näslund 48 goals -56 assists - 104 PTS
Backstrom 33 goals - 68 assists - 101 PTS
Career:
Näslund 395 goals - 869 Points
Backstrom 211 goals - 812 Points
Backstrom had the benefit of accumulating points playing with this generations greatest goal scorer. Näslund has more career points but Bäckström has played fewer games. Näslund was a more dangerous offensive player, but Backstrom is a more complete player. Personally this is a toss up.

Curious to see your top 10?

 

[trentmccleary]

Forwards - era-adjusted best 10 season average (if less than 10 years, it's indicated beside their name):

Forsberg	69	26	64	90	0.37	1.30
Alfredsson	73	33	51	84	0.45	1.15
Sundin	78	38	49	87	0.49	1.11
Backstrom	77	21	62	83	0.28	1.08
Zetterberg	73	29	49	78	0.40	1.07
H.Sedin	81	19	67	86	0.23	1.05
D.Sedin	79	31	52	83	0.40	1.05
Mk Naslund	80	36	44	80	0.46	1.00
Nilsson - 8	70	26	42	68	0.37	0.97
Nylander	73	19	42	61	0.27	0.83
Mt Naslund-9	78	23	37	60	0.30	0.76
H. Loob - 6	77	26	32	58	0.34	0.75

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[danincanada]

Key word here, TEAM, put Bourque on those dominant Red Wings teams and Lidstrom on those average Bruins teams and guess who would have more team success. By the way Bourque's playoff numbers are great too, only 3 points less in 49 less games. Lidstrom is an all-time great too but at the end Bourque was just better plain and simple.

Obviously no player wins on his own but Lidstrom was a huge cog in 4 Cups so it’s silly to pretend Bourque would accomplish the same or more in the same situation. I wouldn’t put all the blame on Bourque for not winning more either but let’s stick to reality and things that actually happened.

You are getting caught up in a lot of hyperbole here and it’s not helping your points.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Obviously no player wins on his own but Lidstrom was a huge cog in 4 Cups so it’s silly to pretend Bourque would accomplish the same or more in the same situation. I wouldn’t put all the blame on Bourque for not winning more either but let’s stick to reality and things that actually happened.

You are getting caught up in a lot of hyperbole here and it’s not helping your points.

Nope I only told what it is, facts.

 

[joe dirte]

Forwards - era-adjusted best 10 season average (if less than 10 years, it's indicated beside their name):

Forsberg	69	26	64	90	0.37	1.30
Alfredsson	73	33	51	84	0.45	1.15
Sundin	78	38	49	87	0.49	1.11
Backstrom	77	21	62	83	0.28	1.08
Zetterberg	73	29	49	78	0.40	1.07
H.Sedin	81	19	67	86	0.23	1.05
D.Sedin	79	31	52	83	0.40	1.05
Mk Naslund	80	36	44	80	0.46	1.00
Nilsson - 8	70	26	42	68	0.37	0.97
Nylander	73	19	42	61	0.27	0.83
Mt Naslund-9	78	23	37	60	0.30	0.76
H. Loob - 6	77	26	32	58	0.34	0.75

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Who knew sundin was so close to Forsberg.

So:
Forsberg
Sundin
Henrik Sedin
Daniel Sedin
Zetterberg (for two way play)
Alfredsson
Markus naslund
Nilsson