Player Discussion Tony DeAngelo: Part IV

[NYSPORTS]

Can we still try him out at forward though?

he has a better wrist shot than most forwards we’ve had over the years.

 

[Raspewtin]

he only had a goal but his puck movement and shooting made the 1st and 3rd goals happen.

he walks the line on the PP with the best of them. it's truly a sight.

 

[Edge]

Just because internet posters mention it, that does not make it a lucid statement.

First of all, it is NOT happening. DeAngelo and Fox are NOT Trouba. Could they have more offensive talent? Sure. But neither one is capable of defending on the level that an anchor defenseman should. If either was playing Trouba's minutes and against the players that he lines up against, your outlook for either of them would not be so sunny.

I feel like our RD has somewhat of a symbiotic relationship right now.

Trouba allows ADA and Fox to be who they are, and not have to do what Trouba does.

In turn, ADA and Fox allow Trouba to be who he is and not have to do what they do.

You start moving guys and you start messing with the balance, and for what? What is the actual end game? What do we really gain at this point?

We have three RDs who compliment each other and are all young enough to do so for the next half-decade.

Until Lundkvist or Keane or whoever allows us to maintain a similar balance, while vastly improving another area by trading one of the three players we currently have on the roster, there’s just no point in Messi by with this.

We have so many other areas we should be focusing on right now.

 

[TheBPA]

I feel like our RD has somewhat of a symbiotic relationship right now.

Trouba allows ADA and Fox to be who they are, and not have to do what Trouba does.

In turn, ADA and Fox allow Trouba to be who he is and not have to do what they do.

You start moving guys and you start messing with the balance, and for what? What is the actual end game? What do we really gain at this point?

We have three RDs who compliment each other and are all young enough to do so for the next half-decade.

Until Lundkvist or Keane or whoever allows us to maintain a similar balance, while vastly improving another area by trading one of the three players we currently have on the roster, there’s just no point in Messi by with this.

We have so many other areas we should be focusing on right now.

The real trick is what do you do with the up and coming RD, like Lundkvist. I agree that Trouba/ADA/Fox is a right side that you could have for 5 years and go to sleep happy. It's a good problem to have, but one that Gorton is going to have to be very careful with in trying to get it right.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The real trick is what do you do with the up and coming RD, like Lundkvist. I agree that Trouba/ADA/Fox is a right side that you could have for 5 years and go to sleep happy. It's a good problem to have, but one that Gorton is going to have to be very careful with in trying to get it right.

Worst comes to worst you trade Lundkvist for a comparable forward.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

stop

We should trade Panarin now that his value is at an all-time high

 

[Irishguy42]

We should trade Panarin now that his value is at an all-time high

Trade Shestyorkin while he's undefeated.

 

[Leetch3]

It has been mentioned before. Let’s be honest, Tony and a Fox are better than he is. Look at what’s on deck for defensemen and the cap. It’s not crazy

having been mentioned before doesn't make it less wrong this time...i absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE DeAngelo and Fox. but lets be real here, neither of them has been matched against other teams top lines and the 2 of them have played like 6 shifts combined all season on the PK.

those 2 easily replace him offensively but there is alot more to building a defense than that...trouba has his flaws but the lack of appreciation for what he has brought to the right side of the blueline pushing those 2 down in the lineup to allow them to develop in better situations is being sadly underrated.

 

[Edge]

The real trick is what do you do with the up and coming RD, like Lundkvist. I agree that Trouba/ADA/Fox is a right side that you could have for 5 years and go to sleep happy. It's a good problem to have, but one that Gorton is going to have to be very careful with in trying to get it right.

I think there's a decent possibility that guys like Lundkvist or Keane get moved for important pieces elsewhere.

You know when you see really good players come on the market and there's that fear that we don't have pieces the other team would prefer?

That's how you take that concern off the table.

 

[NYSPORTS]

having been mentioned before doesn't make it less wrong this time...i absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE DeAngelo and Fox. but lets be real here, neither of them has been matched against other teams top lines and the 2 of them have played like 6 shifts combined all season on the PK.

those 2 easily replace him offensively but there is alot more to building a defense than that...trouba has his flaws but the lack of appreciation for what he has brought to the right side of the blueline pushing those 2 down in the lineup to allow them to develop in better situations is being sadly underrated.

I get it and you’re right. I’m looking at the dollars and the number of cheap prospects too.

Fans think “ we have sooo much cap space”. People were arguing last year at this time as if we had enough space for a decade. We have Trouba, now we want to sign Tony D, now they want to resign Kreider, keep Hank, buyout Staal, etc.

only way this works is rotating the stock. Keep Trouba, fine, but rotate the others out. We have 3 goalies in this log jam and nobody should get blindsided when we have about 9 defensemen with one or two pricey. Perfect world they’re all cheap and the Rangers might be able to pull that off.

 

[ElLeetch]

I feel like our RD has somewhat of a symbiotic relationship right now.

Trouba allows ADA and Fox to be who they are, and not have to do what Trouba does.

In turn, ADA and Fox allow Trouba to be who he is and not have to do what they do.

You start moving guys and you start messing with the balance, and for what? What is the actual end game? What do we really gain at this point?

We have three RDs who compliment each other and are all young enough to do so for the next half-decade.

Agreed, and i think the problem some people have is that it comes down to expectations. I think there is a general (yet unintentional) mindset along the lines of "a player is only truly successful if they score X points". For a defender, that may mean something like 50-points a season, hypothetically. Problem is, you can't have 3 guys scoring 50 points from the right-side back end; there are not enough points to go around. There is am effective limit to the number of goals scored per game, and the number of player points generated per game. With that in mind, you can realize a player can be successful if he's the 3rd guy down the line and only scoring 30 points.

Just for some simple math, say the reasonable expectation for the RD of any team can max out at 120 player points. In our context, if ADA gets 50 points, Fox gets 30 points, and Trouba gets 40. People will look at that and say "Trouba is only getting 40 points. Lets move him for someone who can do better", but the problem is, bringing in someone 'better' might not crack 40 either, or if they do, they come at the expense of ADA or Fox. Even worse, the next guy you bring in might only put up 25-points. you are not operating below max-potential efficiency for the unit.

To bring it back to what you said, we need to learn to be happy with the unit, and not the individuals. if the unit is operating at peak efficiency, thats all that matters. To put it another way, the gears of a watch are all different sizes, but the hands move in perfect timing if the balance is there.

In 2014, Canada won the Olympic Gold Medal. in that tournament, St. Louis, Tavares, Nash, Duchene, Perry, Peitangelo, Keith, Benn, Bergeron, Vlasic, Bouwmeester, Kunitz, Sharp, Subban, and Hamhius, combined for a grand total of 9 points. 4 goals, 5 assists. thats all they got from literally half of the team, and they still won gold. That does not make them bad players, or that they should have taken other players instead. Even the world best all-star team cannot score 20 goals a game.

 

[TheBPA]

I think there's a decent possibility that guys like Lundkvist or Keane get moved for important pieces elsewhere.

You know when you see really good players come on the market and there's that fear that we don't have pieces the other team would prefer?

That's how you take that concern off the table.

Agreed, but the pressure will be on to make sure that trade is for the right player. That's the next stage of the rebuild that is tough to get right.

 

[Edge]

Agreed, but the pressure will be on to make sure that trade is for the right player. That's the next stage of the rebuild that is tough to get right.

Nothing gets easier from him. Certain aspects become clearer, but it'll be a game of chess as the Rangers try to identify the right players, get the best value, and then hope everything gels together. Because you could put a superior team together on paper, only to find that gels better by swapping out a few guys who make the team better.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Brady Skjei @ #14? I was told he was terrible at hockey and needs to be traded?

While I think Skjei's offensive game is underrated his current 5v5 scoring is insanely boosted by secondary assists, much more than it was in 16-17, and he only has one primary assist on the season.

Adam Fox (40th in 5v5 P/60) conversely has only one secondary assist on the season and and is 8th in 5v5 P1/60.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Trade Shestyorkin while he's undefeated.

Trade Kakko for picks. He's close to 19

 

[Kaapo Hollweg]

Trade Kakko for picks. He's close to 19

And then trade those 2020 picks for 2021 picks. Some of the 2020 picks are 18 already.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Just because internet posters mention it, that does not make it a lucid statement.

First of all, it is NOT happening. DeAngelo and Fox are NOT Trouba. Could they have more offensive talent? Sure. But neither one is capable of defending on the level that an anchor defenseman should. If either was playing Trouba's minutes and against the players that he lines up against, your outlook for either of them would not be so sunny.

Yes, Trouba plays tougher and more overall minutes. Yes, Fox/ADA's underlying numbers would go down if they got Trouba's usage.

But what's also true is that Trouba has been very underwhelming and at times, bad, in the harder minutes he plays. Factor in the reputation that preceeded him and how much he counts toward the salary cap (4th highest amongsth NHL dman), I definitely understand some of the flack he's getting.

So yes, Fox and ADA would not just step into Trouba's shoes and doing exactly what they're doing in their easier minutes. But who's to say one of them wouldn't or couldn't do a better job than Trouba himself? Honestly, I think Fox should get a look at 1RD and and some PK time.

That guy is gonna surpass Trouba in the near future as 1RD imo.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Just because internet posters mention it, that does not make it a lucid statement.

First of all, it is NOT happening. DeAngelo and Fox are NOT Trouba. Could they have more offensive talent? Sure. But neither one is capable of defending on the level that an anchor defenseman should. If either was playing Trouba's minutes and against the players that he lines up against, your outlook for either of them would not be so sunny.

DeAngelo & Fox are both better defensively than Trouba. We can find another defensive defenseman for far below 8 million, it’s much harder to find a 65pt dman.

 

[True Blue]

DeAngelo & Fox are both better defensively than Trouba.

Come on. You loose all credibility with that statement.

We can find another defensive defenseman for far below 8 million, it’s much harder to find a 65pt dman.

First of all, I am not sure when the discussion morphed to one or the other. Second of all, finding a defensive stalwart on the top defensive pairing to play against the opposing top players is about as rare as 65 point defensemen. They just simply do not grow on trees.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

he has a better wrist shot than most forwards we’ve had over the years.

His wrist shoit is one of the best in the game. That is for sure.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Come on. You loose all credibility with that statement.

First of all, I am not sure when the discussion morphed to one or the other. Second of all, finding a defensive stalwart on the top defensive pairing to play against the opposing top players is about as rare as 65 point defensemen. They just simply do not grow on trees.

ADA was breaking up plays left & right last night including 2 by Barzal, Trouba was getting walked as always, turning it over with his awful shot selection, and slowly glided to the boards with his head turned back as always because he’s a weasel who’s scared of taking a hit and fumbled the puck and directly caused the Isles first goal. There was one backcheck last night where I swear ADA was skating as fast as McDavid, whereas Trouba gets beat back by his own wingers even though he’s not pinching as deep as ADA

 

[nyr2k2]

Come on. You loose all credibility with that statement.

First of all, I am not sure when the discussion morphed to one or the other. Second of all, finding a defensive stalwart on the top defensive pairing to play against the opposing top players is about as rare as 65 point defensemen. They just simply do not grow on trees.

Can't lose what you don't have! LOL.

 

[True Blue]

But what's also true is that Trouba has been very underwhelming and at times, bad, in the harder minutes he plays. Factor in the reputation that preceeded him and how much he counts toward the salary cap (4th highest amongsth NHL dman), I definitely understand some of the flack he's getting.

There is NO ONE on the roster or in the pipeline who can stand in and play the role that Trouba is playing. His contract in another year or two will be very much on part with what other defensemen in his stead get.

So yes, Fox and ADA would not just step into Trouba's shoes and doing exactly what they're doing in their easier minutes. But who's to say one of them wouldn't or couldn't do a better job than Trouba himself? Honestly, I think Fox should get a look at 1RD and and some PK time.

Because on good days, their defensive play is adequate. On many poor and in Tony's case, outright awful at times.

Neither can clear the net, emerge from a corner battle with the puck or win a battle along the boards. I like both of them a lot, but let's call a spade a spade.

That guy is gonna surpass Trouba in the near future as 1RD imo.

Not until his defensive play improves to a level that he is not currently touching or seems even capable of touching.

Sorry, taking sheltered minutes (and they are) and somehow translating them to a top defenseman is quite a bit of a stretch.

 

[True Blue]

ADA was breaking up plays left & right last night including 2 by Barzal, Trouba was getting walked as always, turning it over with his awful shot selection, and slowly glided to the boards with his head turned back as always because he’s a weasel who’s scared of taking a hit and fumbled the puck and directly caused the Isles first goal. There was one backcheck last night where I swear ADA was skating as fast as McDavid, whereas Trouba gets beat back by his own wingers even though he’s not pinching as deep as ADA

Let's see DeAngelo take all of the PK time, defensive draws and play constantly against top players. THEN we an have this conversation. His defensive play leaves A LOT to be desired. And that is putting it mildly.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I know we haven’t really mentioned it with regularity, but I can see ADA wearing a letter at some point.

So that’s why they’re taking so long to give Mika the C

Seriously though I could’ve sworn there was an article from like a year ago saying they want their next captain to be someone with an edge to them. ADA is also really good at interviews and has a big personality, was unanimously voted funniest player on the team, stands up for teammates, and I think when you’re leadership group is someone that passionate & intense it rubs off. I think Lemieux has really good leadership traits as well.