Tomas Tatar: no more AHL

[cupforwings09]

He's better than Nyquist now.
And he's younger.

When Tatar was up, there were several games where he was our most dangerous player.

Yeah, I understand Tatar was good when he was up. He was one of our best players the first few games he played, but he did kind of tail off near the end of his stint. I think he will be a good player. I guess from watching the games, it just looks like Nyquist is the better player. Last night he created a ton of chances. They are different types of players, but Nyquist has really showed how good he is the last 10 games IMO. Also, I think there is a reason that our organization had him rated as our #1 prospect, over Tatar, and I think he has finally begun proving it.

And Nyquist has 1 less point then Tatar in 1 less game. So that is pretty even.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Yeah, I understand Tatar was good when he was up. He was one of our best players the first few games he played, but he did kind of tail off near the end of his stint. I think he will be a good player. I guess from watching the games, it just looks like Nyquist is the better player. Last night he created a ton of chances. They are different types of players, but Nyquist has really showed how good he is the last 10 games IMO. Also, I think there is a reason that our organization had him rated as our #1 prospect, over Tatar, and I think he has finally begun proving it.

And Nyquist has 1 less point then Tatar in 1 less game. So that is pretty even.

His production tailed off.
His play did not.

I don't care what "our organization" says. Our organization isn't all that smart lately.
This is the same organization that has made Abdelkader a regular top 6 winger and that gave 2-year contracts to Bertuzzi and Samuelsson and signed Tootoo for $2M a year only to bench him.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

His production tailed off.
His play did not.

I don't care what "our organization" says. Our organization isn't all that smart lately.
This is the same organization that has made Abdelkader a regular top 6 winger and that gave 2-year contracts to Bertuzzi and Samuelsson and signed Tootoo for $2M a year only to bench him.

Did you see Babcock called Abdelkader our most improved player, figured that would anger you quite a bit.

He did call Kindl the second most improved.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/04/justin_abdelkader_tabbed_by_co.html

I do think Tatar is our most improved prospect. Lots will point to Sheahan or Ferraro. But for me the compete level and defensive commitment Tatar has put into his game over the last year and a couple months has been incredible. He had some very real holes in his game even through the midpoint of last season in Grand Rapids, most if not all are gone now.

 

[HTT3*]

Speculate all you want. Just don't post it like HTT3 did

" but according to Holland, other GMs didn't see much value in him in terms of return."

HTT3 is attempting to say that HOLLAND SAID other GMs didn't see value in Tatar.

Utter ********.

I believe it was in the Bouwmeester thread someone posted a link to Holland saying in an interview, after a potential trade fell through, that other GMs simply didn't value our prospects like we do. Which leads me to believe, if Holland was showcasing Tatar, the trade talk broke down because other GMs didn't value him very high in terms of return.

Edit - found the quote and the link

Holland said they offered some prospects, but “at the end of the day, someone didn’t like them as much as we do or they like someone else’s players better.''

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/04/red_wings_gm_ken_holland_made.html

 

[RedWingsNow*]

I believe it was in the Bouwmeester thread someone posted a link to Holland saying in an interview, after a potential trade fell through, that other GMs simply didn't value our prospects like we do. Which leads me to believe, if Holland was showcasing Tatar, the trade talk broke down because other GMs didn't value him very high in terms of return.

Edit - found the quote and the link

LOL

You say, According to Holland, scouts don't value HIM (TATAR).

So you're totally speculating while trying to make it sound factual

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Did you see Babcock called Abdelkader our most improved player, figured that would anger you quite a bit.

He did call Kindl the second most improved.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2013/04/justin_abdelkader_tabbed_by_co.html

I do think Tatar is our most improved prospect. Lots will point to Sheahan or Ferraro. But for me the compete level and defensive commitment Tatar has put into his game over the last year and a couple months has been incredible. He had some very real holes in his game even through the midpoint of last season in Grand Rapids, most if not all are gone now.

Abdelkader is on pace for a 17 goal, 4 assists season.

That's about as bad as someone can do riding Datsyuk's shotgun most of the year.

 

[HTT3*]

LOL

You say, According to Holland, scouts don't value HIM (TATAR).

So you're totally speculating while trying to make it sound factual

Everything posted on this forum is speculation. Many here 'speculate' Holland was showcasing Tatar. Then after no trade happened... Holland says "at the end of the day, someone didn’t like them [prospect] as much as we do".

If there's smoke, there's fire. I believe Tatar is Hollands #1 trade bait for whatever reason...

 

[Winger98]

Speculate all you want. Just don't post it like HTT3 did

" but according to Holland, other GMs didn't see much value in him in terms of return."

HTT3 is attempting to say that HOLLAND SAID other GMs didn't see value in Tatar.

Utter ********.

I agree with that, but the point is still there that the Wings have used him oddly this year, and in a way that points to being okay to move him.

Though from the quote HTT3 brought up, it could just as easily be that wings value him very highly, and that's why a trade didn't happen.


I really don't get why they've since buried Tatar back in the minors, though.
And Boyd says "Hi" for least productive Datsyuk linemate ever.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I agree with that, but the point is still there that the Wings have used him oddly this year, and in a way that points to being okay to move him.

Though from the quote HTT3 brought up, it could just as easily be that wings value him very highly, and that's why a trade didn't happen.


I really don't get why they've since buried Tatar back in the minors, though.
And Boyd says "Hi" for least productive Datsyuk linemate ever.

I think that is more accurate. I don't think they are adverse to moving him but it has to be in the right deal. Personally wouldn't have been all that jazzed about him being in the JayBo package, but I dislike JayBo quite a bit.

I think the Wings are very high on both Nyquist and Tatar. I just think they are only keeping one when all is said and done and I expect Tatar to be the loser in that debate with Wings brass. But they aren't going to give him away, it will be part of a decent move if it happens.

JayBo in terms of where he is thought of in hockey circles and front offices was probably worth dangling Tatar, just not for me.

Can we assume that was Tatar, Sheahan and a first, would still hate that deal, but guessing Jurco wasn't the guy as some others have pointed out.

 

[CloneHakanPlease*]

Abdelkader is on pace for a 17 goal, 4 assists season.

That's about as bad as someone can do riding Datsyuk's shotgun most of the year.

Don't forget more than half of his goals have either been empty netters (2) or bounced off him by COMPLETE accident on his part (3). He has 4 legit goals all season, 3 of which came in one game.

 

[Winger98]

I think that is more accurate. I don't think they are adverse to moving him but it has to be in the right deal. Personally wouldn't have been all that jazzed about him being in the JayBo package, but I dislike JayBo quite a bit.

I think the Wings are very high on both Nyquist and Tatar. I just think they are only keeping one when all is said and done and I expect Tatar to be the loser in that debate with Wings brass. But they aren't going to give him away, it will be part of a decent move if it happens.

JayBo in terms of where he is thought of in hockey circles and front offices was probably worth dangling Tatar, just not for me.

Can we assume that was Tatar, Sheahan and a first, would still hate that deal, but guessing Jurco wasn't the guy as some others have pointed out.

I thought it was a 2nd, and that was supposedly the big hang-up for Feaster - he had to have a first, despite us offering "better" prospects.

If Feaster did turn down Tatar, Sheahan, and a 2nd (or 1st), he goofed, imo.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I thought it was a 2nd, and that was supposedly the big hang-up for Feaster - he had to have a first, despite us offering "better" prospects.

If Feaster did turn down Tatar, Sheahan, and a 2nd (or 1st), he goofed, imo.

You're correct, my mistake while typing it. I too think Feaster goofed in a big way if that was offered. But they clearly wanted a goalie too, guess Paterson wasn't appealing enough. 1st pick and goalie seems to be the big want, Mrazek wasn't on the table and neither was the first. Still our package was better than what they got, especially if St. Louis goes on any kind of run.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Don't forget more than half of his goals have either been empty netters (2) or bounced off him by COMPLETE accident on his part (3). He has 4 legit goals all season, 3 of which came in one game.

Justin Abdelkader really is a terrible hockey player on every level.

He is a bad 4th liner and a miserable top six player. Those two goals in the 09 Finals have haunted the Wings ever since. Would the kid still be on the team if he never scored those goals?

I have been on the Gator is useless bandwagon since day one, and he has given me zero reason to get off of it.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

While I believe that Tatar should be in the NHL, I don't like this kind of stuff. I don't think this should be out in the media, and I think this sort of public message-sending is usually indicative of a prima donna.

Not convinced Tatar is better than Nyquist either. Nyquist has really, really improved in the last 10 games. I think he hounds the puck just as well as Tatar now. That's not to say that Tatar isn't good, of course. I think they're both excellent young guys.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

While I believe that Tatar should be in the NHL, I don't like this kind of stuff. I don't think this should be out in the media, and I think this sort of public message-sending is usually indicative of a prima donna.

Not convinced Tatar is better than Nyquist either. Nyquist has really, really improved in the last 10 games. I think he hounds the puck just as well as Tatar now. That's not to say that Tatar isn't good, of course. I think they're both excellent young guys.

I would agree with you if Tatar clearly didn't earn a roster spot during his 17 game stint. When you play hard and do your job and you don't get rewarded for it, what are you supposed to do? He did everything right and is making a fraction of what he could be making in NHL. This is a job and he is losing a lot of money even though he is better than Eaves, Miller, Cleary, Gator and Emmerton.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

I would agree with you if Tatar clearly didn't earn a roster spot during his 17 game stint. When you play hard and do your job and you don't get rewarded for it, what are you supposed to do? He did everything right and is making a fraction of what he could be making in AHL. This is a job and he is losing a lot of money even though he is better than Eaves, Miller, Cleary, Gator and Emmerton.

Right, but I think there was a difference of opinion. Tatar thought he deserved to stay up during that 9 game stretch and Babcock and Holland didn't. We can at least say he was having a bit of a scoring drought there. I don't find it all that controversial to send down a young scorer (who was called up due to injury to begin with) when he isn't scoring.

Right or wrong, Holland and Babcock were in playoff mode and decided that they couldn't spare the points they could lose. (I'm going with wrong, but I don't think it's the clear bonehead decision that it's made out to be. A conservative, playoff-minded GM would make that same decision over and over.)

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Justin Abdelkader really is a terrible hockey player on every level.

He is a bad 4th liner and a miserable top six player. Those two goals in the 09 Finals have haunted the Wings ever since. Would the kid still be on the team if he never scored those goals?

I have been on the Gator is useless bandwagon since day one, and he has given me zero reason to get off of it.

Gator is Maltby.

 

[DRWCountryClub]

Gator is Maltby.

Maltby was so much better than Gator it's ridiculous. He was one of the best pests in the league.

Gator is just bad.

 

[Bench]

Justin Abdelkader really is a terrible hockey player on every level.

He is a bad 4th liner and a miserable top six player. Those two goals in the 09 Finals have haunted the Wings ever since. Would the kid still be on the team if he never scored those goals?

I have been on the Gator is useless bandwagon since day one, and he has given me zero reason to get off of it.

Babcock likes his physical edge, that much is clear. Abby leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

What value you place on that quality determines how you feel about him on the team.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

Gator is Maltby.

I think they're trying to use Abby like Holmstrom. Problem is, Abby just isn't very good at that role.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

LOL

You say, According to Holland, scouts don't value HIM (TATAR).

So you're totally speculating while trying to make it sound factual

You freaking hypocrite. You're the one who keeps on telling people to talk to others with respect. And yet, isn't speculating while trying to make it sound factual what you and the rest of the overly-critical and obnoxious brass bashers do every day? Shut up.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Babcock likes his physical edge, that much is clear. Abby leads the team in hits by a wide margin.

What value you place on that quality determines how you feel about him on the team.

I am well aware of the Abby being physical argument. His physicality is a joke. He is fake tough. His hits are weak and he isn't difficult to play against. I watch him on the ice and never once think that the opposing line is worried about him on either side of the ice.

Wings should bring in somebody who is actually physical. He could hit half as much as Gator and he would still be the better physical player.

The guy is a bum at everything he does. I understand bottom six players aren't special, but Gator is less than mediocre. He should be in the AHL.

As for the Maltby comparison cursed lemon brought up, I am just going to respectfully disagree.

 

[Bench]

I think they're trying to use Abby like Holmstrom. Problem is, Abby just isn't very good at that role.

Or Cleary on the powerplay. That's the one that kills me. He's too soft in front of the net. Holmstrom was a warrior and had the hand-eye to tip anything. Cleary gets thrown around and swings at the puck like he's playing tee ball.

That said Abby and Cleary are tied for 4th in team scoring with Zetterberg. And only 1 goal behind Franzen. So... I think that explains why the team is fighting for a playoff spot pretty well.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Or Cleary on the powerplay. That's the one that kills me. He's too soft in front of the net. Holmstrom was a warrior and had the hand-eye to tip anything. Cleary gets thrown around and swings at the puck like he's playing tee ball.

That said Abby and Cleary are tied for 4th in team scoring with Zetterberg. And only 1 goal behind Franzen. So... I think that explains why the team is fighting for a playoff spot pretty well.

Nobody is able to cash in on the rebounds the Wings get from shots on net. I have noticed that a lot more this year. I noticed it last year too, but this year is just beyond frustrating to watch.

I don't know who to blame. Is it the shooter not being patient enough waiting for the teammate to get in position, or is it the other players just never being in position?

It has to be more than simple bad luck.

 

[Bench]

He is fake tough. His hits are weak and he isn't difficult to play against.

You're describing why I was never high on Bouwmeester. So I get what you're saying.