News Article: Tomas Plekanec wants back in....

[Belial]

Yeah look at Vegas this year. There's no pressure in the playoffs and they're killing their opponents. You make a lot of sense.

Chucky had his highest point per game two seasons ago to start the year, before he got injured. It had nothing to do with no pressure.

And last year, the main reasons they did better after the deadline had nothing to do with pressure, they were out of the playoffs long before that. After the deadline they got rid of old slow players and brought in young players Juulse, Reilly, Mete, and Alzner split from Petry, Shaw was moved out of the top 9, Scherbak was called up, and of course Plekanec being traded was a huge addition by subtraction. Then we started to suck again at the end of the season, when Pacioretty, Danault, Mete and others went down with injury. It showed how Pacioretty was still important to this team.

I'd rather we tank, but if we go with youth and speed from the start of the season, and play our forwards in the proper positions, I could definitely see us pushing for the playoffs IF our young players like Scherbak, Drouin, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Lehkonen, Juulsen, Mete, Reilly, and say Zadian are ready to step up.

What is the pressure for that Vegas team? They already managed to do literally the impossible...

That team was not built to compete for the Stanley Cup! Even GMGM would probably tell you that.

They're overachieving like crazy.

 

[417]

What is the pressure for that Vegas team? They already managed to do literally the impossible...

That team was not built to compete for the Stanley Cup! Even GMGM would probably tell you that.

They're overachieving like crazy.

we're 82 games + playoffs into the 2017-18 season...

And you're saying the Vegas Knights success this year is because of one factor, the lack of pressure.

I don't know @Belial ...by this stage of the season, there's probably more to it.

 

[Belial]

The fact that Drouin, playing on the top line and getting first unit power play time could only average a minute more of ice-time than Pleks, who should have been playing no higher than the third line, is a damning indictment of Julien's over-dependency on scrubs. How is Drouin supposed to create offense when he barely gets more ice time than the offensive black hole known as Plekanec? He can't score from the bench but that's where he is when Pleks is gobbling up all that ice-time. You want to know why this team is offensively challenged? This is why. Because the players who are paid to provide offense aren't getting the lion's share of the minutes. Julien is more focused on trying to prevent the other team from doing things than he is in trying to get his own team to create something.

Plekanec creates nothing. His job is about prevention only. But having him for 60 games last season prevented nothing. The roof still caved in on them. So if Pleks can't even provide this team with the one element he's supposed to be good at, what's the point of bringing him back? All he's going to do is siphon off ice-time that should be going to more offensive-minded players.

Are you even aware of the TOI of player around the league? You think first liners play 25 minutes or what?

Bergeron finished the season with 19:26 TOI/GP and Drouin at 17:36 TOI/GP.

I mean there's a small difference but it's not something outrageous!

It's like 2 shifts per game...

Again, i'm not big on attributing much importance to zone starts...it's just information to me, I don't draw far reaching conclusions based on a stat that has no context.

You think differently and that's fine.

And why shouldn't I think different it's just logical...

How can you ignore this?

How can you say it doesn't matter? Or it's not that important?

The games in October/November weren't any more or any less meaningful than the games in February/March/April.

The Habs didn't play many meaningful games this year period.

So that "pressure" argument is out the window

Of course there was pressure, a ton of pressure on a guy like Drouin per example...

 

[Belial]

we're 82 games + playoffs into the 2017-18 season...

And you're saying the Vegas Knights success this year is because of one factor, the lack of pressure.

I don't know @Belial ...by this stage of the season, there's probably more to it.

Don't you think that team is overachieving?

 

[417]

And why shouldn't I think different it's just logical.

How can you ignore this?

How can you say it doesn't matter? Or it's not that important?

I didn't ignore, say it didn't matter or that it's not important....

I said without context, it's just information.

Zone starts just explain zone starts...it does not explain what happens AFTER the faceoff on every single play, you don't have this information either.

Take for example Jonathan Drouin, who started in the offensive zone the majority of the time...well he was awful at faceoffs, so even if he started in the offensive zone most of the time, he started his shift without the puck and chasing it back into his Dzone more often than not.

So starting his shifts in the offensive zone, really didn't improve HIS probability to produce points.

So sorry...unless you can outline what happened for a specific player, after EVERY zone start...all that zone starts explain, is just where a player starts his shift more often than not, that's all.

You can't even say that zone starts influence probability of production, unless you actually think that because a player starts in the Ozone, it automatically means that zone start is going to result in a goal or even a chance for.

That's simply not true.

 

[417]

Don't you think that team is overachieving?

I don't think their success is as simple as saying they're overachieving.

 

[Belial]

I didn't ignore, say it didn't matter or that it's not important....

I said without context, it's just information.

Zone starts just explain zone starts...it does not explain what happens AFTER the faceoff on every single play, you don't have this information either.

Take for example Jonathan Drouin, who started in the offensive zone the majority of the time...well he was awful at faceoffs, so even if he started in the offensive zone most of the time, he started his shift without the puck and chasing it back into his Dzone more often than not.

So starting his shifts in the offensive zone, really didn't improve HIS probability to produce points.

So sorry...unless you can outline what happened for a specific player, after EVERY zone start...all that zone starts explain, is just where a player starts his shift more often than not, that's all.

You can't even say that zone starts influence probability of production.

I mean the context is already that... Starting in the offensive zone is a lot more favorable to create offense than starting in the defensive zone! Ignoring this is just being stubborn...

Drouin even if he was not very good in the FO circle was still winning over 40% of his draws, and the team was in a position to score right away.

Even when losing a draw in the offensive zone is not as critical as losing that draw in the defensive zone...

Again, you're trying to defy pure logic here.

I don't need the whole numbers of all the events happening after the FO to be able to declare that starting in the offensive zone will lead to more offense.

I don't think their success is as simple as saying they're overachieving.

No, that's not what I said, they're playing great but they're overachieving IMO.

 

[Laurentide]

A difference of 2 shifts is significant and Bergeron isn't the best example since the Bruins roll their four lines more than some other teams. The Habs don't have nearly enough talent through all four lines to be giving them equal or near equal ice-time. They are starved for offense and should be riding the few offensively gifted players that they do have like horses. Instead they rely on Plekanec because he's "safe". But he can't score to save his life so he does nothing to address their offensive deficiencies.

Malkin plays second line minutes behind Crosby and even he averages more ice time than our supposed #1 center Drouin. Derek Brassard played behind both of those guys and still had slightly more ice-time than Drouin. In Edmonton, McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH all averaged more TOI than Drouin. Only Mark Letestu averaged less TOI at center for the Oilers than Drouin did for the Habs.

Like I said, Drouin can't score when he's spending all that time on the bench. The more ice time, the more scoring opportunities. Two more shifts per game can make a huge difference.

 

[417]

I mean the context is already that... Starting in the offensive zone is a lot more favorable to create offense than starting in the defensive zone! Ignoring this is just being stubborn...

I'm not ignoring it...i'm saying unless you can provide the context for each one of those offensive zone faceoffs, that all it means is you're talking about where a player started a shift.

Starting in the offensive zone is not really more favorable to create offense, the only way you can believe this is if you know for sure, that this is what happened.

Tell me something...how many of Drouin's offensive zone starts results in goals?

Drouin even if he was not very good in the FO circle was still winning over 40% of his draws, and the team was in a position to score right away.

Even when losing a draw in the offensive zone is not as critical as losing that draw in the defensive zone...

Again, you're trying to defy pure logic here.

I don't need the whole numbers of all the events happening after the FO to be able to declare that starting in the offensive zone will lead to more offense.

How do you know this? Tell me how many times this happened? How many times did Drouin starting in the offensive zone lead to a goal right away?

Zone starts, IMO, is a loose theory...because it assumes that every zone start leads to a goal, when in fact, this rarely happens.

 

[Sorinth]

What is the pressure for that Vegas team? They already managed to do literally the impossible...

That team was not built to compete for the Stanley Cup! Even GMGM would probably tell you that.

They're overachieving like crazy.

You're playing for the cup, there's always going to be tons of pressure.

 

[Belial]

I'm not ignoring it...i'm saying unless you can provide the context for each one of those offensive zone faceoffs, that all it means is you're talking about where a player started a shift.

Starting in the offensive zone is not really more favorable to create offense, the only way you can believe this is if you know for sure, that this is what happened.

Tell me something...how many of Drouin's offensive zone starts results in goals?

Oh come on man...

We're talking about chances here!

How in the world is not starting in the offensive more favorable than starting in the defensive zone?

Drouin took over 1000 FO this season, you really think I'm gonna go and check what happened after each drop of the puck?

How do you know this? Tell me how many times this happened? How many times did Drouin starting in the offensive zone lead to a goal right away?

Again, you're asking for something ridiculous. I'm not getting paid for posting here...

The point I'm making is a lot more simple though... When the team starts in the offensive zone and the center wins the FO they're in a position to score/create a scoring chance.

 

[montreal]

When the Habs re-sign Pleks you guys can continue to pissing match.