Player Discussion Tomas Plekanec - Guess who's back, back again? Turtleneck's back, tell a friend! Edition

[Garbageyuk]

The guy was playing the toughest minutes. That dummy Babcock obviously thought he was doing okay...

He was the only veteran defensive center option Babcock had.

 

[MakeTheGoalsLarger]

he might be the most boring player in the NHL.

Is there a skater better than him at preventing both teams from scoring?

 

[Peanut]

You can't be playing great while turning the puck over as much as he did. The problem with the 'eye test' is people see through different lenses.

There are some people that actual think Polak and Komarov deserve the minutes they get because Babcock plays them so much, it sure doesn't help the team. Appeal to Authority is the next thing people go with the "eye test" as well.

 

[nhlfan9191]

I can almost see @417 pulse go up with signings like this.

 

[Kriss E]

he might be the most boring player in the NHL.

He'll fit right in.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

That blows my brain.

Because from what I saw, Bergeron's line was eating us alive until Plekanec was paired up with him and then it felt like things settled down. Kadri though suspended was ineffective against Bergeron.

Plek's played good for you guys. I'm afraid the hockey analytic community is still in its infancy and most of these stats without context don't mean much.

 

[PaulD]

Meh. Not sure why people are giving him a hard time. He was once a pretty good player. He WANTS to play in Montreal when most players don't.

Why wouldn't we want him? We're not making the playoffs. He's good to help with that.

So would Gorges and Gionta.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Plek's played good for you guys. I'm afraid the hockey analytic community is still in its infancy and most of these stats without context don't mean much.

What's the actual context you are referring too?

 

[sandviper]

What's the actual context you are referring too?

A couple posts back, it was mentioned that statistically, Plekanec was a black hole. The eye test says otherwise for those who watched Boston versus Toronto.

To me, it’s a bit in between. They were citing turnovers per 10 attempts and I agree, those figures can be misleading. Advanced stats got lumped in though and that’s the thing, the advanced stats indicate Plekanec wasn’t that horrendous. He had almost 70% dZ starts, thus understandably his CF% was lower. His PDO was ridiculously high though. I mean, scoring is both skill and luck but advanced stats seem to say his line didn’t get lit up.

I’m only looking at an aggregate though and not game by game but my point is I prefer the eye test coupled with standard then advanced stats. At least for the past few seasons, I don’t need advanced stats to tell me he was hopeless offensively for us.

 

[Habs Halifax]

A couple posts back, it was mentioned that statistically, Plekanec was a black hole. The eye test says otherwise for those who watched Boston versus Toronto.

To me, it’s a bit in between. They were citing turnovers per 10 attempts and I agree, those figures can be misleading. Advanced stats got lumped in though and that’s the thing, the advanced stats indicate Plekanec wasn’t that horrendous. He had almost 70% dZ starts, thus understandably his CF% was lower. His PDO was ridiculously high though. I mean, scoring is both skill and luck but advanced stats seem to say his line didn’t get lit up.

I’m only looking at an aggregate though and not game by game but my point is I prefer the eye test coupled with standard then advanced stats. At least for the past few seasons, I don’t need advanced stats to tell me he was hopeless offensively for us.

Thanks for explaining. I think we all know what kind of player Pleky is at this stage of his career. I will admit that I had him a bit lower on the decline ladder and the Leafs were making a mistake trading a 2nd for him. However, with Pleky on the Leafs and their talented forward group, we start to see what value Pleky brings as a defensive center. He offensive production is not good but he did put up 4 pts in 7 games with 2 goals.

I'm actually very surprised he didn't want to go play for a cup contender. I think he would fit very well as the 3rd center with the Pens, Oilers, Jets. The guy is just loyal to the Habs and he might get traded again at the deadline.... something I think he realizes heading in.

 

[Censored Toad]

@ahmedou

epic thread name.... love it !
10/10!

 

[Be a Hab]

Its all good it happens sometimes the eye test is bias and when a teams wins games you look past a lot of black hole stuff Pleks does for a team. Those advanced stats paint a good picture in how he did.

Some people actually thought Alzner was a good signing because he was on a winning team like the Caps.

I’m not an advanced stats expert and this is more of a question but could some of those turnovers be attributed to Plekanec taking a shot on goal and the goalie making the save of just easily redirecting the rebound to one of his own players?

Because Pleks can finish a game with 4~5 shots on goal but he never really had a true goal scoring chance. He tends to just put the puck on net when he enters the offensive zone, sort of like what Gionta used to do at the end of his career.

 

[zzoo]

he might be the most boring player in the NHL.

Is there a skater better than him at preventing both teams from scoring?

The key word here is "both"

 

[Peanut]

I’m not an advanced stats expert and this is more of a question but could some of those turnovers be attributed to Plekanec taking a shot on goal and the goalie making the save of just easily redirecting the rebound to one of his own players?

Because Pleks can finish a game with 4~5 shots on goal but he never really had a true goal scoring chance. He tends to just put the puck on net when he enters the offensive zone, sort of like what Gionta used to do at the end of his career.

I believe it was just when he was in possession of the puck not when he took shots at the net. You can also ask the advanced stats community on twitter they are probably the friendliest ones to ask questions and learn more about the game.

 

[417]

Come on man, why do you need to exaggerate? There's enough exaggeration already on this board...

I thought my tone was fairly obvious in that post, it was tongue-in-cheek, but I do think there is some cause for concern with CJ as it relates to younger players and icetime.

He averaged 13:23 TOI this season...

Just stop...

Deslauriers and DLR averaged around 12 minutes of ice time...

If you read that post, it was framed more as a question than an affirmation, so settle down.

 

[Belial]

I thought my tone was fairly obvious in that post, it was tongue-in-cheek, but I do think there is some cause for concern with CJ as it relates to younger players and icetime.


If you read that post, it was framed more as a question than an affirmation, so settle down.

You know that I don't agree with your whole ice time theory so nothing new here.

 

[417]

You know that I don't agree with your whole ice time theory so nothing new here.

I didn't realize I had an ice time theory per se lol

This year though, with only Plekanec, Byron & Shaw at his disposal up front in terms of veterans (i guess you could add Pacioretty to that mix too if you think he's coming back, I don't), CJ won't really have a choice but to use his younger players in more prominent roles, especially if Byron/Shaw are on the shelf to start the year.

 

[Belial]

I didn't realize I had an ice time theory per se lol

This year though, with only Plekanec, Byron & Shaw at his disposal up front in terms of veterans (i guess you could add Pacioretty to that mix too if you think he's coming back, I don't), CJ won't really have a choice but to use his younger players in more prominent roles, especially if Byron/Shaw are on the shelf to start the year.

Of course, you have a theory! More ice time more points, you've been claiming this for years!

Well, you will be a happy dude next season then...

 

[417]

Of course, you have a theory! More ice time more points, you've been claiming this for years!

Well, you will be a happy dude next season then...

That's a pretty simplistic way of describing something I said...but sure, I guess.

Players who get a lot of ice time also tend to get more points than others who don't lol not sure that's a "theory" that i've advanced, but I digress

 

[Belial]

That's a pretty simplistic way of describing something I said...but sure, I guess.

Players who get a lot of ice time also tend to get more points than others who don't lol not sure that's a "theory" that i've advanced, but I digress

I always argued against your position because you never took into consideration the level of opposition or the quality of ice time.

A guy like Plekanec can get a ton of minutes but he's not placed in a position to generate offense he's placed in a position to help his team win games!

 

[417]

I always argued against your position because you never took into consideration the level of opposition or the quality of ice time.

A guy like Plekanec can get a ton of minutes but he's not placed in a position to generate offense he's placed in a position to help his team win games!

And i've continued to tell you...

Someone whose not capable of generating offense, like Plekanec, shouldn't be placed in a position to help the team win games and play as much as he did last year.

You literally can't find another team in the NHL, who used a player as useless offensively as Plekanec was, as much as the Habs used him.

You can't win games by employing players whose sole purpose AND skill/ability is to prevent the other team from scoring.

It's pure lunacy.

 

[Belial]

And i've continued to tell you...

Someone whose not capable of generating offense, like Plekanec, shouldn't be placed in a position to help the team win games and play as much as he did last year.

You literally can't find another team in the NHL, who used a player as useless offensively as Plekanec was, as much as the Habs used him.

You can't win games by employing players whose sole purpose AND skill/ability is to prevent the other team from scoring.

It's pure lunacy.

It's not lunacy! It's a damn strategy! The problem was that the other elements of that stratagem were not delivering...

 

[Bryson]

A guy like Plekanec can get a ton of minutes but he's not placed in a position to generate offense he's placed in a position to help his team win games!

Habs aren't in a position to win games, they should be focusing on developing their young guys for when they are ready to compete and make a push again. Plekanec should be providing leadership from the 4th line but we know that won't be the case.

 

[417]

It's not lunacy! It's a damn strategy! The problem was that the other elements of that stratagem were not delivering...

It's not a winning strategy (as evidenced by the Habs deployment of this strategy and its results last year) and it's certainly not a strategy ANY OTHER team would ever consider employing either.

There's no team out there who thinks to themselves...

"Hey, let's use our best defensive/worst offensive forward to counter other teams best lines"

 

[Belial]

Habs aren't in a position to win games, they should be focusing on developing their young guys for when they are ready to compete and make a push again. Plekanec should be providing leadership from the 4th line but we know that won't be the case.

So wtf are you actually claiming for? A losing environment like in Laval last season that you all were livid about? Can you f***ing decide yourself for once ffs!?

It's not a winning strategy (as evidenced by the Habs deployment of this strategy and its results last year) and it's certainly not a strategy ANY OTHER team would ever consider employing either.

There's no team out there who thinks to themselves...

"Hey, let's use our best defensive/worst offensive forward to counter other teams best lines"

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that f***ing Plekanec actually did his job?