TNSE Efforts to Acquire an NHL Team Part IX

[Deuce Awesome]

Do you think the exposure Canadians have to the NFL, actually helps the CFL? You know, gain an appetite for football through the NFL, and increase viewership of the CFL because it's the best thing you have? I've often wondered how well the NFL would do in some Canadian hotbeds.

There are some who have babbled about bringing an NFL franchise to Toronto, but as I mentioned earlier I just dont see it happening.

The Bills did a stint at the Dome and it was a flop of epic proportions with the promoters ending up giving out tickets for TV appeal.

Funny, I see it just like hockey in Atlanta, a huge population that just isn't into it.

Toronto is a hockey town, baseball will draw if they are winning, other than that, its on the back page.

Personally, I will watch the Grey Cup if its on and I am bored, the Super Bowl literally puts me to sleep so I haven't paid attention in years. Dont care for either but at least the CFL is faster with better offence.

anyways, back on point.....

 

[Retail1LO*]

There are some who have babbled about bringing an NFL franchise to Toronto, but as I mentioned earlier I just dont see it happening.

The Bills did a stint at the Dome and it was a flop of epic proportions with the promoters ending up giving out tickets for TV appeal.

Funny, I see it just like hockey in Atlanta, a huge population that just isn't into it.

Toronto is a hockey town, baseball will draw if they are winning, other than that, its on the back page.

Personally, I will watch the Grey Cup if its on and I am bored, the Super Bowl literally puts me to sleep so I haven't paid attention in years. Dont care for either but at least the CFL is faster with better offence.

anyways, back on point.....

This IS the point! What a great post. The NFL product is obviously more wildly popular that probably any other sports league on this continent. Despite that, it just isn't a huge draw in some places, even some of Canada's largest cities. Yet Canadians don't bemoan that fact from what I can see. Actually, that sentiment seems to transcend across NBA and MLB too. If it's there? Great. If it's not? No biggie. Yet alot of American's seem downright offended at the thought that some American cities...just are not meant to have NHL hockey. There's nothing wrong with it, but I guess one's own love for a sport makes us defensive in a manner that we think, given the chance, everyone else will like the sport as we do.

 

[blues10]

It certainly appears that TNSE has obtained an NHL franchise.

Earlier today, I spent about an hour in a one-on-one conversation with Atlanta Thrashers co-owner, Michael Gearon - getting his side of the story on how exactly we’ve gotten to this point in the whole “Thrashers relocation saga.†It was his side of the story, mind you. But there was no pretending that there was still a chance the team would remain. It’s not going to happen. In fact, he offered that the deal to sell the Thrashers is “about 80-percent complete.†However, an announcement may not come until next week – maybe. Gearon said that there are still mounds of paperwork to take care of.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/new...er-talks-to-fox-5's-ken-rodriguez-20110526-tm

 

[Kanata Senators]

Given the right marketing, Toronto could host an NFL team. Think of the potential!.
I jest.

Very much the same thing. NFL wouldn't work in North America's 4th or 5th largest market (not sure where Toronto ranks....) and no marketing or commited owner would be able to make it work.

 

[Retail1LO*]

It certainly appears that TNSE has obtained an NHL franchise.



http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/new...er-talks-to-fox-5's-ken-rodriguez-20110526-tm

A portion you did not quote, that I shall.

"Unfortunately, all indications indicate that it’s already over. We’ve lost a professional sports franchise. But please, don’t blame the fans. In the end, the Atlanta Spirit Group could not afford to keep the team. And to this observer, the Thrashers weren’t worth the trouble. Gearon admitted he knows absolutely nothing about hockey. So, take all this for what it’s worth.

Yes, this is a business. But when it comes to Atlanta sports fans – it’s also personal!"

Pretty simple, really. Couldn't afford to keep them. What more do you want ASG to do? And it's not surprising they're not "hockey guys" and know nothing about it. They bought this as a package deal. They had to buy a hockey club to get a basketball team and an arena. I'm sure they'd just assume have not taken on the Thrashers to begin with, but bit the bullet to get the rest. Now they've decided they just want to keep the white meat, and get rid of the gizzards. So they're selling the Thrashers, for more than they'd have gotten for them as a portion of selling the entire lot.

If Atlanta fans take this personally, that's on them. ASG isn't sticking it to the fans. This is business. That's all it is.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

You claim the thread has become absurd and make probably the second most absurd statement in BoH history (first one being a conspiracy theory i read way back that this was all a plan to move the blues to saskatoon in 2027).

The revived Jets, at most, have 700,000 people possibly generating revenue for that team. Atlanta has the potential to make 5 million. And it doesn't even have to make 5 million people hockey fans, because it won't happen. 700,000 hockey fans in Atlanta is more lucrative to the NHL than 700,000 fans in Winnipeg on TV ratings alone.

And there are not 700,000 Hockey fans in Atlanta. It's most likely around 80,000 tops if you look at the numbers in tv ratings and attendance. Don't get me wrong, there are some great Hockey fans in Atlanta, but sadly, there's just not enough of them

 

[Retail1LO*]

Given the right marketing, Toronto could host an NFL team. Think of the potential!.
I jest.

Very much the same thing. NFL wouldn't work in North America's 4th or 5th largest market (not sure where Toronto ranks....) and no marketing or commited owner would be able to make it work.

I agree. Great post. Like I said....some markets, no matter how big, just weren't designed to host certain sports franchises. There just seems to be an incessant need to attempt to pound square pegs through round holes.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

I agree. Great post. Like I said....some markets, no matter how big, just weren't designed to host certain sports franchises. There just seems to be an incessant need to attempt to pound square pegs through round holes.

I agree completely. Some things are just not meant to be

 

[htpwn]

When the Coyotes were a threat to leave, one of the key arguments we were presented with by government officials and certain residents is that the city needed to have all four major sports to be a major centre.

With Atlanta, you see general indifference from government officials. The mayor said it was unfortunate, but certainly wasn't worrying about their status as a city being affected by losing a professional sports franchise, by not having all 4 major sports in their city.

Seems like Atlanta is considerably more comfortable in its own skin then Phoenix, which seems to be still striving to establish itself in a way.

Just an observation.

 

[blues10]

A portion you did not quote, that I shall.

"Unfortunately, all indications indicate that it’s already over. We’ve lost a professional sports franchise. But please, don’t blame the fans. In the end, the Atlanta Spirit Group could not afford to keep the team. And to this observer, the Thrashers weren’t worth the trouble. Gearon admitted he knows absolutely nothing about hockey. So, take all this for what it’s worth.

Yes, this is a business. But when it comes to Atlanta sports fans – it’s also personal!"

Pretty simple, really. Couldn't afford to keep them. What more do you want ASG to do? And it's not surprising they're not "hockey guys" and know nothing about it. They bought this as a package deal. They had to buy a hockey club to get a basketball team and an arena. I'm sure they'd just assume have not taken on the Thrashers to begin with, but bit the bullet to get the rest. Now they've decided they just want to keep the white meat, and get rid of the gizzards. So they're selling the Thrashers, for more than they'd have gotten for them as a portion of selling the entire lot.

If Atlanta fans take this personally, that's on them. ASG isn't sticking it to the fans. This is business. That's all it is.

Thanks for adding what I left out.

Yes this is business and the business of sport. We have seen franchises move for the very reason of no one wanting to own a team in a certain market under certain conditions. See Quebec city and Winnipeg most recently. This will not be the last time this happens.

Congratulations to TNSE for keeping their cards close to their chest and closing this deal after waiting patiently for Phoenix to play out. NHL hockey will look great at the MTS centre with committed owners, alternate revenue streams a rabid fan base and fans paying NHL prices this team will be around for a long time. Way to go Winnipeggers.

 

[headsigh]

When the Coyotes were a threat to leave, one of the key arguments we were presented with by government officials and certain residents is that the city needed to have all four major sports to be a major centre.

With Atlanta, you see general indifference from government officials. The mayor said it was unfortunate, but certainly wasn't worrying about their status as a city being affected by losing a professional sports franchise, by not having all 4 major sports in their city.

Seems like Atlanta is considerably more comfortable in its own skin then Phoenix, which seems to be still striving to establish itself in a way.

Just an observation.

The city of Atlanta is pushing hard for an MLS franchise. But there won't be a franchise here until 2014 at the soonest, so, you know. Atlanta surprisingly has a bit of soccer history, with the Apollos/Chiefs in the NASL. The Atlanta Blackhawks FC (nicest shield in american association football) just recently went defunct, but the Atlanta Silverbacks play in currently North America's "second tier" league. They could, I suppose, be bumped up as promotion as they are doing with the Montreal Impact, but this whole discussion is another can of worms.

Basically, none of the suits in Atlanta are worried, save for Philips with the arena naming rights and of course Anson Carter's group (bless their hearts). But it's done. The deal's done. ASG never wanted anything to do with this franchise and now they're cutting it loose.

 

[Retail1LO*]

When the Coyotes were a threat to leave, one of the key arguments we were presented with by government officials and certain residents is that the city needed to have all four major sports to be a major centre.

With Atlanta, you see general indifference from government officials. The mayor said it was unfortunate, but certainly wasn't worrying about their status as a city being affected by losing a professional sports franchise, by not having all 4 major sports in their city.

Seems like Atlanta is considerably more comfortable in its own skin then Phoenix, which seems to be still striving to establish itself in a way.

Just an observation.

Another great post. What's really ironic, is the hockey team isn't even IN Phoenix. The fact Phoenix thinks the fabric of its existence will be marred by the loss of a hockey team is laughable. Fact is, the city lasted for how long without a team, and did fine? Now losing what you've barely had to begin with is going to cripple the area? LOL

 

[headsigh]

Another great post. What's really ironic, is the hockey team isn't even IN Phoenix. The fact Phoenix thinks the fabric of its existence will be marred by the loss of a hockey team is laughable. Fact is, the city lasted for how long without a team, and did fine? Now losing what you've barely had to begin with is going to cripple the area? LOL

Phoenix doesn't care. Glendale does.

 

[Brodie]

Seems like Atlanta is considerably more comfortable in its own skin then Phoenix, which seems to be still striving to establish itself in a way.

It wouldn't surprise me. Atlanta is a major corporate hub, a former Olympic city and in the undisputed capital of the south. Phoenix is still very new at the table of major cities in the US. It's still trying to establish itself as something more than a destination for retirees and snowbirds. Just like when a person gets a bit of money and they go about collecting what they feel someone with money should have (big house, new car. etc.), when a city hits a certain threshold they suddenly feel the need to have a symphony and pro sports and an art museum, etc.

There's different levels of this, too. Phoenix has reached the point where they feel they need 4 teams to fit in, while a city like Columbus is happy to just be on the map with 1.

 

[Metzen]

Thanks for adding what I left out.

Yes this is business and the business of sport. We have seen franchises move for the very reason of no one wanting to own a team in a certain market under certain conditions. See Quebec city and Winnipeg most recently. This will not be the last time this happens.

I have to disagree with this statement... When Winnipeg was looking for suitors back in '94, several prospective owners were disqualified for not being "worth" more than $600M (in '94 $). These were artificial conditions that had nothing to do with the market. The Edmonton group that purchased the team were not worth >$600M combined but Bettman allowed them to purchase the team.

I was looking for the source of my "$600M" claim, but cannot find one. I do recall reading about it, and can confirm that Bettman is the one who personally screened potential owners of the Jets. I can't find the article that articulated the restrictions he was reported to have made.

[EDIT]Another article talking about the restrictions but not detailing what they were.

 

[Retail1LO*]

Phoenix doesn't care. Glendale does.

Glendale existed without hockey before, it can do it again. It's not like it's at risk of tumbleweeds blowing down main street if the Coyotes leave.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I agree. Great post. Like I said....some markets, no matter how big, just weren't designed to host certain sports franchises. There just seems to be an incessant need to attempt to pound square pegs through round holes.

Toronto/NFL would not be a fair comparison. There are many NFL fans in Toronto. Not so much in PHX. A;thought the market could grow.

 

[blues10]

I have to disagree with this statement... When Winnipeg was looking for suitors back in '94, several prospective owners were disqualified for not being "worth" more than $600M (in '94 $). The Edmonton group that purchased the team were not worth >$600M combined but Bettman allowed them to purchase the team.

I was looking for the source of my "$600M" claim, but cannot find one. I do recall reading about it, and can confirm that Bettman is the one who personally screened potential owners of the Jets. I can't find the article that articulated the restrictions he was reported to have made.

Yes, you are correct. GB threw up roadblocks any time any potential ownership group came forwardin Winnipeg from93-95. The final one being a single investor with a net worth of $600 million. Other obstacles put in the way were an actual deadline date with a time to the second and an large escrow account set up to withstand projected losses until a new arena was consructed. My how times have changed.

 

[cbcwpg]

It certainly appears that TNSE has obtained an NHL franchise.

In fact, he offered that the deal to sell the Thrashers is “about 80-percent complete.

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/new...er-talks-to-fox-5's-ken-rodriguez-20110526-tm

Well, 80% is looking good, but still a bit of work to get to 100%.

I would imagine we will be hearing "Atlanta is still looking at other options" from Gary Baghdad Bob Bettman while the final documents are being signed.

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

Thrashers President Don Waddell said Wednesday that the deal with True North Sports & Entertainment is "still a work in progress"

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/192249/29/Potential-Thrashers-buyer-dreamed-of-Atlanta-empire

 

[puckhead103*]

You may not be aware of it, but you're REALLY asking two different questions here.

The answer to the first, i.e. Why did the NHL give a team to Atlanta, knowing the owners weren't committed for the long haul?, is that A$G is NOT the original ownership group. Ted Turner was.

Really, you can look at this whole mess starting the day ol' Teddy signed the merger with Time Warner/AOL, who promptly nudged him out of the picture.

Your other question goes into the NHL's vetting process, and I can't speak for that, but obviously it was inadequate.

BTW, regarding Ted Turner, his son Beau and son-in-law Rutherford Seydel are both part of A$G, though Ted is not.

why ted turner sold the team to ASG? did he got out because it wasn't profitable?

 

[Hamilton Tigers]

There was a 350 million dollar offer to purchase the Thrashers & Philips Arena, so there's definitely some interest. If the offer had been made, maybe, 2 weeks earlier we wouldn't be having this discussion, but the exclusivity agreement probably screwed them over (not to mention ASG being so stubborn about moving the team and collecting a relocation fee).

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/new...r-talks-to-fox-5's-ken-rodriguez-20110526-tm#

The obvious question to him was – why did he and ASG not sell to a local group? The answer, Gearon said, was simple – there was no serious and/or viable offer to consider. According to Gearon, all it would have taken to keep the team here was a few investors for about one to $5 million each. But, frustratingly, no one would belly-up to the bar. He pointed to the $20 million in annual losses as a possible deterrent. In the end, he and his ASG partners could no longer continue to absorb the losses.

In recent days, allegations have been raised by at least two groups that accuse ASG of not negotiating with them in good faith. One in particular, former NHL player, Anson Carter tweeted recently that he had offered $350 million for the Hawks, Philips Arena, and the Thrashers. That led Gearon to spin his computer monitor around for me to see a letter from Carter’s group indicating that they were retracting their offer, with Gearon saying, “the money wasn’t really there.â€

Tom Glavine? Big hockey fan... His heart was in the right place. But he’s not the big money guy needed to pull-off a local buy.

Stephen Rollins: Georgia native and Hollywood filmmaker? The conversation about him ended as soon as it started. Rollins was not considered a serious player, according the Gearon.

 

[Ripper]

What

Two totally different markets and fan bases. I don't know anyone who follows both the CFL and NFL, at least anywhere near equally.

Most people I know, myself included, love the NFL and couldn't care less about the CFL.

I and many friends have followed both leagues religiously for decades, I have been to Grey Cups and Superbowls. The thing is, the CFL is a different game, way more athletic and more exciting. The NFL is big time gambling so there is heavy interest but the game is ALSO great.
I have met many people throughout the years they love both as they are pro sports fans, they played, coached and love hockey, Bball, Vball, baseball, played most sports you can mention....even can watch golf on Tv.

I suuggest you go to a game, have a few pops and enjoy it!

 

[Grudy0]

why ted turner sold the team to ASG? did he got out because it wasn't profitable?

Ted Turner granted Thrashers franchise in 1997, owned by Time Warner.

Time Warner merges with AOL in 1999.

By 2001, Ted Turner is forced out of his chairmanship of the Board of Directors of AOL Time Warner, leaving those teams no longer with his direct control.

Time Warner grants exclusivity to sell the Hawks, Thrashers and arena operations to David McDavid in 2003. Time Warner during that exclusivity period sells the three businesses to Atlanta Spirit Group, and Time Warner loses the lawsuit and has to pay about $250 million to David McDavid for failing to deal with him exclusively.

ASG purchases, and a few weeks later, the Danny Heatley episode occurs.

It's been bad karma since ASG entered the picture.

 

[peter sullivan]

Two totally different markets and fan bases. I don't know anyone who follows both the CFL and NFL, at least anywhere near equally.

Most people I know, myself included, love the NFL and couldn't care less about the CFL.

i dont think that is case here....i know lots of people who like both....the CFL still has a television ratings edge nationally....

personally i have season tickets to the bombers mostly because its fun to go to games....i dont love the sport....i find the NFL possibly the slowest and most boring game on earth...our game is 100 times better, but it obviously doesnt have the seduction that the NFL does.

i think the return of the NHL will help the bombers....their $500 season ticket packages will look like a bargain....they are popular with young people who wont be able to choke up $4000 for NHL seats.....the CFL will benefit from the money flowing for sports entertainment in my opinion.