LeBrun: Tkachuk wants 5 years, Flames want to avoid

[Lunatik]

I understand how negotiations work.

The standard was set by Toronto which gave these players new leverage a normal GM wont give in to thus all the hold outs for 5 year deals. There is an unprecedented amount of players holding out for the same thing. The correlation is there for everyone to see.

There is an unprecedented amount because there was an unprecedented amount of elite RFAs. Sure, the Matthews contract doesn't help, but as other have pointed out 5 year contracts have been happening with top RFAs for a long time.

 

[bert]

There is an unprecedented amount because there was an unprecedented amount of elite RFAs. Sure, the Matthews contract doesn't help, but as other have pointed out 5 year contracts have been happening with top RFAs for a long time.

5 year contracts yes but not front loaded with no movement clauses that lead them directly into being a UFA.

 

[Lunatik]

5 year contracts yes but not front loaded with no movement clauses that lead them directly into being a UFA.

the front loaded thing and bonus laden is newer, yes, but that wasn't Dubas that started that. Lots of guys signed 5 years deals coming out of ELCs, that hasn't changed at all, they were UFAs after too. And a player can't have a NMC until they are UFA eligible, but they were given out like candy before to RFA who signed and ate up some UFA years.

Seems like the real problem is your lack of understanding and knowledge of the subject.

 

[King In The North]

Well, at least it's not 3 years $9.5 per

 

[Agalloch]

5 years at 8M per year

 

[bert]

the front loaded thing and bonus laden is newer, yes, but that wasn't Dubas that started that. Lots of guys signed 5 years deals coming out of ELCs, that hasn't changed at all, they were UFAs after too. And a player can't have a NMC until they are UFA eligible, but they were given out like candy before to RFA who signed and ate up some UFA years.

Seems like the real problem is your lack of understanding and knowledge of the subject.

Different thread same topic. The post I quoted below describes what I have been suggesting as accurately as possible. Seems like the real problem is your arrogance and unwillingness to discuss with other posters while resorting to insults as a way to make you feel better about yourself.

It certainly changed everything.

Mcdavids contract set a high watermark the year before for players coming of ELC on a max 8 year extension at 12.5M. The Draisatel one at 8.5M 8yrs was also a precedent setting one for the almost Mcdavid type player.

the Matthews one changes it all. He got almost Mcdavid money on a contract that buys one UFA year as opposed to 4 and takes him to UFA status 3 years earlier than Mcdavid. All the elite guys will want a similar deal in terms of $$ and term. In the elite I am considering marner/rantannen and Point. Others are probably a bit lower. Of those 3 whoever signs first probably sets a precedent for the other 2 and ultimately the bit lower guys too.

The fly in the ointment is Marner, being on the same team he has the best arguement that Matthews should be a comparable for him. Point and Rantannen unless the team offers a Matthews like contract are more than willing to wait for Marner before the season starts as they rightly feel that he has the best chance of getting the Matthews like deal.

They are all waiting for dubas to blink. As we get closer to Oct 1st the dynamic may change, who blinks first.

If not Dubas, then does Point or Rantannen blink to avoid missing time...
Does Marner take Dubas's best offer worried that Point or Rantannen will settle at a lower amount changing they dynamic.

Thing is the agents can and will talk to each other I'm sure. Curious to see who blinks first. Keller at 7M on 8 years suggests a floor for guys in the 50-60 point range on 8 year deals. all these guys are way over keller so its hard to see them much below 9.5M or 10M on a max term deal.

 

[JPeeper]

Just my opinion. A lot of teams lose really good players at some point. Tkachuk want's no part of Calgary long term. Although 5 years imo is pretty long term.

Like I said, instead of talking out your ass, just stop talking. You have no proof or evidence and everything points to him wanting a long term deal here.

 

[kdog82]

Like I said, instead of talking out your ass, just stop talking. You have no proof or evidence and everything points to him wanting a long term deal here.

Long term meaning max 5 years. Read up man. Lebrun saying he wants 5 years not me ya pud.

 

[robertocarlos]

What's wrong with 5 years. It's a long time and you will have had the player for 8 years total. Long enough. If he likes it there he will sign again. It's pretty simple. Also the NHL would love 5 years max.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

the front loaded thing and bonus laden is newer, yes, but that wasn't Dubas that started that. Lots of guys signed 5 years deals coming out of ELCs, that hasn't changed at all, they were UFAs after too. And a player can't have a NMC until they are UFA eligible, but they were given out like candy before to RFA who signed and ate up some UFA years.

Seems like the real problem is your lack of understanding and knowledge of the subject.

It’s not just the front-loaded, bonus laden structure that increases the value due to the present value of money. We’ve seen that before with a lot of players.

It’s not just the 5-year term. We’ve seen that with a lot of players.

It’s not just the AAV that is UFA price. We’ve seen that before, albeit on an 8-year term.

It is all 3 of those things put together into one contract that we had never seen before. That is what (might) have changed the landscape. But after seeing Sebastian Aho sacrifice the AAV for that kind of term and bonus structure on an offer sheet, I’m pretty confident that most RFAs won’t actually get what they want. But it’s fair to say that the Matthews contract has led them to ask.

 

[StreetHawk]

UFA AAV needs to be considered in its totality.

Benn was 28 when his deal started. Cash payments for years 1-3 are $13 mill per which takes him to 31. Years 6-8 when he starts them at age 33 are $6.5 mill per.

So ufa deals factor in an expected decline in production as the player gets past age 33.

So I would expect all rfas to want 8 figures for their prime ufa years in their 20’s.

Tkachuk is ufa at age 25, turning 26 in the fall.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Just my opinion. A lot of teams lose really good players at some point. Tkachuk want's no part of Calgary long term. Although 5 years imo is pretty long term.

Did you read that somewhere? As far as im aware hes quite happy in Calgary.

 

[McJC]

What's wrong with 5 years. It's a long time and you will have had the player for 8 years total. Long enough. If he likes it there he will sign again. It's pretty simple. Also the NHL would love 5 years max.

You could get the player for an extra 3 years at the same cap rate instead of having to pay the player a significant raise at the end of 5.
There's a good chance players like Tkachuk, Marner, and Point will be better 5 years from now than they are today.

 

[Lunatik]

Long term meaning max 5 years. Read up man. Lebrun saying he wants 5 years not me ya pud.

Wanting 5 years doesn't mean he wants in 5 years. It means he wants to capitalize on the new US TV deal in 5 years.

 

[McSuper]

LeBrun: Why term appears to be the major stumbling block in...

Maybe in don't want to be a Flame . Seem like he wants out as soon as possible

 

[Rubi]

NEWS FLASH!!! According to some people here with what must be insider knowledge, anyone who signs a 5 yr contract once their ELC has expired, is only signing for 5 years because they can't wait to get out of town fast enough and are counting the minutes until that day happens.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

There is an unprecedented amount because there was an unprecedented amount of elite RFAs. Sure, the Matthews contract doesn't help, but as other have pointed out 5 year contracts have been happening with top RFAs for a long time.

The issue with the Matthews contract isn't 5 years. It is the near max dollars with no UFA years bought.

Matthews had his way with Dubas. Sometimes having so much money can end up being a leverage point for the other party.

 

[JPeeper]

Long term meaning max 5 years. Read up man. Lebrun saying he wants 5 years not me ya pud.

When in the hell has he ever said he wanted out?

Players want 5 year terms for a multitude of reasons other than wanting out, novel concept I know.

 

[ToDavid]

The issue with the Matthews contract isn't 5 years. It is the near max dollars with no UFA years bought.

One UFA year bought.

 

[CgyFlamesftw]

If tkachuk wants out cause 5 year term then every other RFA does too. News flash they all aiming for 5 years.

 

[super6646]

The issue with the Matthews contract isn't 5 years. It is the near max dollars with no UFA years bought.

Matthews had his way with Dubas. Sometimes having so much money can end up being a leverage point for the other party.

This... 100% this.

If he had gotten a 9x5 contract, or thereabouts, nobody blinks an eye. Instead, dubas conceded significantly on both the term and aav of the contract.

 

[Legion34]

This... 100% this.

If he had gotten a 9x5 contract, or thereabouts, nobody blinks an eye. Instead, dubas conceded significantly on both the term and aav of the contract.

You think the 4th best goal scorer. 10th best point producer while being 92 in games played compared to all ELC players in the past 20 years

Signs for 11 percent of the cap? Come on

 

[super6646]

You think the 4th best goal scorer. 10th best point producer while being 92 in games played compared to all ELC players in the past 20 years

Signs for 11 percent of the cap? Come on

He signed for 5 years. No comparable in the marketplace had him getting that aav for 1 ufa year. Mcdavid got 850k more per year while buying 4 ufa years, while Eichel got a bit over a million less per year with the same 8 year term (and is a close comparable to him on a ppg basis).

Again, the only reason the aav should’ve had an 11 at the front if he was getting 8 years. Dubas conceded on both term and aav, and the rfa shitshow is a reaction to that.

 

[lawrence]

If tkachuk wants out cause 5 year term then every other RFA does too. News flash they all aiming for 5 years.

Keller just signed a 8 year deal, but to be fair he's not at Tkachuks level.

 

[Jihadi Flames Fan]

If he wants 5 years it has to be at a significantly lower AAV than he's asking for, and I mean significantly lower, i.e. $6-6.5 M. He shouldn't be making more than Johnny anyway.