Tribute Timothy Liljegren part 2

[Griffin76]

Context- he’s also 3rd lowest in Defensive zone starts. So yes he is being sheltered. 2nd on the team in Neutral Zone starts.

but nevertheless he’s playing well

Nice to see you're still plugging away. Stay strong my friend. He will eventually have a bad game and you can have a field day.

In all seriousness though it's good to see that you're recognizing that he's doing well.

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Context- he’s also 3rd lowest in Defensive zone starts. So yes he is being sheltered. 2nd on the team in Neutral Zone starts.

but nevertheless he’s playing well

I mean that's not really being sheltered. Sheltered would be like lowest d zone starts, and highest ozone starts with the majority of all starts in the ozone. Like 3rd lowest in the dzone just tells me that's 2nd pairing usage.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Has Bryan Hayes started the back peddle yet? I generally like the guy but for whatever reason he just picked Liljegren...without watching him as he has admitted and decided he was a bust lol. Been a head scratcher from day 1.

 

[supermann_98]

Has Bryan Hayes started the back peddle yet? I generally like the guy but for whatever reason he just picked Liljegren...without watching him as he has admitted and decided he was a bust lol. Been a head scratcher from day 1.

Not really. Yesterday him and O-Dog said if Holl is a game time decision and dependant on Dermott's health it's not looking good for him, "especially if he's being passed over in favor of Dermott AND Liljegren".

Like come on guys, the Leafs have done nothing but win since Lil's been put in to lineup and the eye test says that's not an coincidence.

The best thing that's happened to Liljegren is that his buddy Sandin is his D partner and that familiarity probably helps him simplify his game and realize if Sandin can do it in the NHL so can he

 

[hockeynorth]

Context- he’s also 3rd lowest in Defensive zone starts. So yes he is being sheltered. 2nd on the team in Neutral Zone starts.

but nevertheless he’s playing well

so... he's literally middle of the pack on our blue line for zone starts?

 

[hockeynorth]

Liljegren looks legit, if he and Sandin develop as a pair over the season we're in good shape

side note, did you guys realize that Ritchie is 1st on our team with 23 hits... but Sandin is 2nd at 21???

Lillys minutes have been at the 16-17.5 range the last 3 games

 

[Niagara Bill]

Liljegren looks legit, if he and Sandin develop as a pair over the season we're in good shape

side note, did you guys realize that Ritchie is 1st on our team with 23 hits... but Sandin is 2nd at 21???

Lillys minutes have been at the 16-17.5 range the last 3 games

Lily looks controlled and pairs well with Sandin. He is here to stay,IMHO.
Never looks like the firedrill every shift does with Dermott or Reilly.

 

[stickty111]

so... he's literally middle of the pack on our blue line for zone starts?

3rd lowest last 3 games. Sandin is 4th but barely. Honestly it's the Rielly-Dermott pair thats been sheltered.

 

[hockeynorth]

More liljegren 5v5 stats:

#1 dman in takeaways per 60 (behind Nylander and Marner only)
#2 OA in shots blocked per 60 (behind Holl
Lowest giveaways per 60 among our dcorps (Matthews, Bunting, Nylander and Kampf lower OA)
#2 dman in shots per 60 (behind Rielly)
#3 dman in points per 60 (behind Rielly and Muzzin)
#5 dman in TOI per game (trailing Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin and Holl)

Basically, he's doing it all for our team, and is essentially middle of the pack in terms of effectiveness (small sample size though)

Liljegren/Sandin pair stats (on Leafs) with minimum 40 minutes played (6 pairs):

1st in CF%
1st in FF%
1st in SF%
1st in xGF%
1st in SCF%
2nd last in on ice shot % and on ice save %, implying they've been unlucky somehow
Lowest ozone start % on the team
0.953 PDO (2nd lowest) further reinforces they've been UNLUCKY and their numbers should be even better

 

[hockeynorth]

3rd lowest last 3 games. Sandin is 4th but barely. Honestly it's the Rielly-Dermott pair thats been sheltered.

agreed, I just posted more stats that stood out

it has literally been our best pair since they got put together and it's not close

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

More liljegren 5v5 stats:

#1 dman in takeaways per 60 (behind Nylander and Marner only)
#2 OA in shots blocked per 60 (behind Holl
Lowest giveaways per 60 among our dcorps (Matthews, Bunting, Nylander and Kampf lower OA)
#2 dman in shots per 60 (behind Rielly)
#3 dman in points per 60 (behind Rielly and Muzzin)
#5 dman in TOI per game (trailing Rielly, Brodie, Muzzin and Holl)

Basically, he's doing it all for our team, and is essentially middle of the pack in terms of effectiveness (small sample size though)

Liljegren/Sandin pair stats (on Leafs) with minimum 40 minutes played (6 pairs):

1st in CF%
1st in FF%
1st in SF%
1st in xGF%
1st in SCF%
2nd last in on ice shot % and on ice save %, implying they've been unlucky somehow
Lowest ozone start % on the team
0.953 PDO (2nd lowest) further reinforces they've been UNLUCKY and their numbers should be even better

Liljegren-Sandin are first in the NHL in most of those categories, not just on the Leafs

 

[hockeynorth]

Liljegren-Sandin are first in the NHL in most of those categories, not just on the Leafs

I didn't know that

Obviously sample size matters, but that's still awesome!

 

[socko]

I don't follow the Marlies at all because they're not available where I live, but this guy is way better than advertised. Holl's Leaf tenure should be hanging by a thin thread.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

I think Keefe likes him too much to do that. I believe Keefe was about easing him in and ensuring he wasn't thrown to the wolves so Lily could get comfortable. I like to think Liljegren is just getting started. Once he got his game going on the Marlies he was dominant. I don't expect top pairing at the NHL level but emergence as a good top 4 d-man could be on the horizon.

Remember how people thought keefe hated him though....that's why he was in the AHL clearly.

As for ceiling, I don't think he'll get the top pairing but I think he'll be a solid top 4 if he continues on this trend.

 

[rdogg]

So according to Hayes Lily is a bust, and O dog called him a 6th defenseman at best.

Time for those guys to eat crow

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I didn't know that

Obviously sample size matters, but that's still awesome!

yep, out of 125 pairings who have played at least 40 minutes:
-1st in CF%
-1st in xGF%
-1st in scoring chance%
-4th in high danger%
-111th in offensive zone%

We'll have to see if it can continue, but obviously a great sign for the team so far

 

[Orfieus]

I'm sorry but this is WAY to much talking on a single prospect, we are now getting the point of debating is he a top2, top4 or top6 Dman and only his play on the ice will determine that

 

[The Podium]

So according to Hayes Lily is a bust, and O dog called him a 6th defenseman at best.

Time for those guys to eat crow

O Dog and Hayes literally know nothing about hockey. Noodles is slightly better, but his opinions are bad for wildly different reasons.

They are entertaining as a group, but I bet the average HF poster knows more about hockey than these 3 guys.

Not too long ago O Dog literally said (paraphrased):

"I look at a team like Philly who added Ellis and that swedish guy (was referring to Risto ) and I dont see how the Leafs can make those kind of improvements mid-season. "

As if Philly didnt add those guys in the offseason and are also currently capped out...

 

[Twine Tickler]

The funny thing is, by the seasons end, the debate on whether Timmy is an everyday NHL'er will likely shift towards the debate of "is Timmy our best overall Defensemen?"

It's slightly a hot take, but in this recent 3 games he has clearly been the best D-man on the team. I really don't know how you could debate the contrary. As someone who has watched him for a while now, this is not a flash in the pan. This is Timmy. This is what everyone raves about. He is truly this good.

 

[hockeynorth]

I'm sorry but this is WAY to much talking on a single prospect, we are now getting the point of debating is he a top2, top4 or top6 Dman and only his play on the ice will determine that

people just really like him, I dont think anyone is actually trying to argue he's a top 2 dman, or quite frankly argue at all right now

it's weirdly one of the most positive threads on our board, other than the Campbell one of course!

 

[LeafChief]

I'm sorry but this is WAY to much talking on a single prospect, we are now getting the point of debating is he a top2, top4 or top6 Dman and only his play on the ice will determine that

This is literally a Liljegren thread. What else would you like us to discuss?

 

[Twine Tickler]

O Dog and Hayes literally know nothing about hockey. Noodles is slightly better, but his opinions are bad for wildly different reasons.

They are entertaining as a group, but I bet the average HF poster knows more about hockey than these 3 guys.

Not too long ago O Dog literally said (paraphrased):

"I look at a team like Philly who added Ellis and that swedish guy (was referring to Risto ) and I dont see how the Leafs can make those kind of improvements mid-season. "

As if Philly didnt add those guys in the offseason and are also currently capped out...

Honestly, I think they know hockey and what it takes to win, but they are not as fanatical as you and I about the Leafs. They aren't following our prospects to the degree we are in here. They see the snippets of Timmy on his brief callups, and cast him as passive and they run with that narrative. But I'm sure if they watched any Marlies hockey over the last couple years, they would never slander Timmy.

I actually like the banter on Overdrive. I think their assessments on the actual Leafs are more or less accurate. They just lack the depth of knowledge on our entire organization

 

[francis246]

Nice to see you're still plugging away. Stay strong my friend. He will eventually have a bad game and you can have a field day.

In all seriousness though it's good to see that you're recognizing that he's doing well.

I won’t cause I’m not a dick. But I’m all about keeping it real. I was wrong in my take a few days ago, I can admit that. But I also think context and accuracy is important in discussion. I think him being sheltered is good. He’s playing with confidence and poise. Like I mentioned before. The leafs are not the greatest in the defensive zone. So starting him there would kill his confidence.

 

[The Podium]

Honestly, I think they know hockey and what it takes to win, but they are not as fanatical as you and I about the Leafs. They aren't following our prospects to the degree we are in here. They see the snippets of Timmy on his brief callups, and cast him as passive and they run with that narrative. But I'm sure if they watched any Marlies hockey over the last couple years, they would never slander Timmy.

I actually like the banter on Overdrive. I think their assessments on the actual Leafs are more or less accurate. They just lack the depth of knowledge on our entire organization

I dont expect them to know every prospect, or have the depth of knowledge about the Leafs system that we do. But their opinions on cap management, roster building, player assessment, etc. are just terrible.

They understand how to play the game, they understand x's and o's and strategy but thats about it.

Just to add, I listen to them every day because I find them entertaining.

 

[Griffin76]

Liljegren looks legit, if he and Sandin develop as a pair over the season we're in good shape

side note, did you guys realize that Ritchie is 1st on our team with 23 hits... but Sandin is 2nd at 21???

Lillys minutes have been at the 16-17.5 range the last 3 games

Sandin is smart. His hits aren't bone crunching but they are effective. He knows his weakness is his speed so if he can bump a guy off stride he has time to get positioned properly. At least that's how I see it.