Proposal: Time To Talk About Blowing It Up, 2nd Rebuild Or Finish This One?

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Oh.



Also, later in the same thread you said, about the following post "The best post in this thread is Krutovs post #54...Sums it up to tee..."



Seems like you were pretty heavy on board the "this was a rebuild" train a couple years ago. What changed?

The Canucks core has been rebuilt (transitioned)..Commentators talk about the Canucks rebuild constantly...Does this mean that the rebuild is from a 'classic' rebuild..?..No it does not....We were trying to be a playoff team for the first 3 years...

Despite the crappy results this season, the young key players from the 'transition' are here..There is nothing that I said (or Krutov said) that is wrong...

 

[4Twenty]

Not really ..Benning wasn't allowed to do a rebuild either...Hitting on an NHL player is one thing, hitting on elite players is another (without winning the lottery).
No argument from me that Benning not having enough depth after 7 years is just cause for a job disqualification.

Benning had no intention to do a rebuild. He sold himself to the club as a man who could turn it around in a hurry. It’s ridiculous to even suggest he wanted to. His actions and words say otherwise.

give anybody the picks Benning had you’re getting good players.

 

[4Twenty]

He wasnt allowed to do a rebuild either.

“Wasn’t allowed” is some very suggestive language. That would counter all the actions and words of the man throughout his tenure.

What’s with the pathetic attempts to change history and suggest Benning wanted a rebuild.

 

[JiffyPB]

What about Demko? Short or long?

What about trading Miller?

What about Horvat? Are you going to trade him?

Demko short. 3 years max, similar to what Marky had. You could try to go the Poile route and sign him to a long-term deal, but goalies can be somewhat unpredictable. I don't even think he'd be interested in a long-term contract. He gains leverage as his performance sustains itself over time rather than giving away his prime years now on a discount.

Horvat re-sign. Need a solid 2C going forward and he'd still be in his prime when the team bounces back.

Miller is a tricky one. You could keep him, but it would be like keeping your own value rental. He would want a big payday after turning 30. However, the Canucks don't have enough high-end winger talent in the prospect pool to replace him and free agency would not yield a guy of his talent at the money he's being paid. He's not a core guy going forward, however, he's still a 1st line player on this team and I would not trade him unless he keeps pouting and has a poor attitude. You would have to make that call around the 2022 deadline. If the rebuild is going to take longer than 2 years, definitely trade Miller to recoup assets.

 

[RussianRacket]

lmao at anyone who thinks trading Hughes is on the table

 

[bossram]

The bolded is incorrect. They are all UFA. 2022 NHL Free Agents Tracker

Regarding Myers, my take is that he is a completely fine #4, but landing one of the stud UFAs and having just one of Juolevi/Rathbone/Woo step up into the top four would bump him to the third pairing, making this a moot point.

The forward corps cap situation is manageable with a competent front office. Look at some of the best teams in the league in the Leafs and Lightning. The Leafs have 8 guys making $5M or more including 3 guys making over $33M. The Lightning have 9 guys making $5M or more and 12 players making $4.45M or more.

Your take is way too doom and gloom. This team is in a great spot after next year with just a few moves.

We've reached the crux of the issue.

I'm doom and gloom because our current management has sewered a decade off this franchise.

Like I said, it takes A LOT of things going right to turn the team around: Picking up a strong top-four defenseman on a good contract, getting all of our core players locked up on value deals with no decline in play (a potential risk with Horvat/Miller), multiple prospects developing to full potential, liquidating marginal assets for picks, and adding effective but cheap depth players.

With Benning at the helm, none of that is possible. Depending on a new GM? Maybe. With Aqua selecting that GM? Doubtful.

 

[bossram]

Lots of references to turning over management here. Not going to defend Benning, but I have a question: if Benning was out today or this off-season, who would you target as his long-term replacement? And I don't mean "what kind of GM" should be hired. I mean which person/ people specifically.

Re: OP, I see the team as half-way. There is a core taking shape. Need to strike on a couple other prospects or picks to bring it together. Also need to get out from under the veteran long-term deals, Luongo penalty, and COVID-stalled cap increases (which are all very painful right now).

Tulsky and Gilman. Easy. Bring in someone like Lombardi as "President" just so we have the OBC credentials.

 

[theguardianII]

Solving the Eriksson dilemma.

The big issue is the money being thrown on the fire to get rid of that contract and the cap hit.
The cap hit can't be solved but the money can be found without Mr. Aqulini spending an extra dime.

Ferland is owed another 6.5 mil in salary, Jim paid him a 2 mil bonus without a doctor clearance so the team gets hit with the full salary.
Buy him out.
The team saves 2.2 mil in cash - cap hits - 833K - 1.833 mil - 1 mil - 1 mil

Roussel buy out saves the team saves the team 640K - cap hit 1.73 and 633K
Beagle buy out saves the team 400K - cap hits - 2.4 mil and 400K

Trade Sutter with 50% retention saves the team 2.2 mil - 0 cap hit
Trade Pearson with 50% retention saves 1.85 mil - 0 cap hit

Buyout Eriksson for 1 million but a 4 mil and 1 million cap hit.

This saves the team millions

With Luongo coming off the books a manageable cap situation.
Roster spots available for the expansion draft as well as cap space

The 50% retention isn't a given but to encourage an earlier trade, the earlier the more money saved and to enhance asset value return, which if not used saves even more cash outlay that can be used for trades.

No reason why this could not work, but then there is Jimmy what day it is to him.

 

[Peen]

The Canucks core has been rebuilt (transitioned)..Commentators talk about the Canucks rebuild constantly...Does this mean that the rebuild is from a 'classic' rebuild..?..No it does not....We were trying to be a playoff team for the first 3 years...

Despite the crappy results this season, the young key players from the 'transition' are here..There is nothing that I said (or Krutov said) that is wrong...

Unlike you, when I post assumptions I’ll say it as one.. not try and mask it as a fact to push a narrative.

Remember how much you tried to expose me for saying “I think Miller and Boeser have some issues”?

Do you have any insider information you’d like to share that Benning wanted to do a rebuild in 2014 but Aquilini said no and tried to be competitive? Proof? Facts?

 

[Ninjadude]

We aren’t making the playoffs. It’s time to sell as many assets as possible for Draft Pick Currency. This allows the team to have cap space and also allows the team to use picks to trade for better players (at a cheaper cost) before the expansion draft! Use those pick on teams that cannot protect their assets - I’m sure they would rather trade them instead of losing them for nothing.

Does that qualify as a rebuild - not really, but we build around the core with better players.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Unlike you, when I post assumptions I’ll say it as one.. not try and mask it as a fact to push a narrative.

Remember how much you tried to expose me for saying “I think Miller and Boeser have some issues”?

Do you have any insider information you’d like to share that Benning wanted to do a rebuild in 2014 but Aquilini said no and tried to be competitive? Proof? Facts?

Where did I say that Benning wanted to do a rebuild in 2014...?..Benning was hired to do the Boston model 'rebuild on the fly', Compete for the Sedins.. ...There was no talk whatsoever, of a 'classic' rebuild.

 

[4Twenty]

Not really ..Benning wasn't allowed to do a rebuild either...Hitting on an NHL player is one thing, hitting on elite players is another (without winning the lottery).
No argument from me that Benning not having enough depth after 7 years is just cause for a job disqualification.

He wasnt allowed to do a rebuild either.

Where did I say that Benning wanted to do a rebuild in 2014...?..Benning was hired to do the Boston model 'rebuild on the fly', Compete for the Sedins.. ...There was no talk whatsoever, of a 'classic' rebuild.

You’ve suggested he wasn’t allowed. My interpretation is that not being allowed or given permission to rebuild suggests he wanted to? Is that your stance? Jim Benning wanted to rebuild but instead went against his personal convictions?

 

[theguardianII]

Unlike you, when I post assumptions I’ll say it as one.. not try and mask it as a fact to push a narrative.

Remember how much you tried to expose me for saying “I think Miller and Boeser have some issues”?

Do you have any insider information you’d like to share that Benning wanted to do a rebuild in 2014 but Aquilini said no and tried to be competitive? Proof? Facts?

I think you may have me mistaken but as far as proof of rebuild or not?

Well on the Youtube Vancouver behind the scenes video in 2014 or 2015, they wrote it on the big white board, that doesn't sound like the owner had any influence.

Also Linden's statement that they would not do a rebuild because it would be unfair to the Sedins, again more double talk.

I also believe there was a statement included in the Sedin's no rebuild about them, Linden and Benning, knowing the team needed a rebuild from the day they were hired because the players, core, was getting old.

As far as Miller having issues?
Well, he signs for less money to stay in Tampa.
His family are set up there.
Out of the blue he is traded as far away as possible and still be in the NHL.
He gets hit with an additional mil in taxes.
He has maintain additional expenses.
He did a favour for Tampa and got shafted.
Then comes Covid
He is isolated and cannot see his family.
Florida has one of the highest infection rates and he is 3000+ miles away.
Then he has to isolate again for two weeks.

As far as Boeser, his Dad is also in the high danger group for Covid
He has had a broken back
Twice operated wrist
Been a subject of trade rumors for two years.

The best humans would be disturbed

All this is in the public domain but really I think you are referring to someone else or are an astro surfer, usually a paid influencer that would demand "proof" knowing that these subjects are buried behind 100's if not 1000's of internet pages if someone doesn't know almost exactly what to look for.

If, IF, lets say I worked in the dressing room, how long would I keep my job just to satisfy a petty demand for proof

This entire forum is essentially fantasy stuff, to take any of too seriously indicates there could be a real problem. I mean, who cares who I am except me. It is only my personal honor that forces me to try to be as accurate as I can be and my experiences that help me form my opinions.
Just fyi, decades in hockey, at all levels except i have never been a NHL GM.

Please continue though if want, I cannot do anything about it.

 

[Peen]

You’ve suggested he wasn’t allowed. My interpretation is that not being allowed or given permission to rebuild suggests he wanted to? Is that your stance? Jim Benning wanted to rebuild but instead went against his personal convictions?

@Pastor Of Muppetz

 

[4Twenty]

@Pastor Of Muppetz

I’m on their list. You’ll have to copy and paste the words.

 

[Peen]

I’m on their list. You’ll have to copy and paste the words.

You’ve suggested he wasn’t allowed. My interpretation is that not being allowed or given permission to rebuild suggests he wanted to? Is that your stance? Jim Benning wanted to rebuild but instead went against his personal convictions? @Pastor Of Muppetz

 

[Fatass]

I’m on their list. You’ll have to copy and paste the words.

Like Benning and Aquilini. If a person’s doesn’t like hearing an opposing view then just ignore it, like it’s not even there. And then fill the room with like minded thoughts. How many really good hockey minds have we lost during this Benning era, because he prefers to ignore any conflicting view?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You’ve suggested he wasn’t allowed. My interpretation is that not being allowed or given permission to rebuild suggests he wanted to? Is that your stance? Jim Benning wanted to rebuild but instead went against his personal convictions? @Pastor Of Muppetz

No..he was onboard for the retool..that’s what he was hired for.

 

[Fatass]

No..he was onboard for the retool..that’s what he was hired for.

AND how has that whole retool philosophy worked out? Benning just said we are still two years away from being competitive. That will be nine years. And IMO I don’t think we are going to be overly great in two years. Who will our D be? What about Miller?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

AND how has that whole retool philosophy worked out? Benning just said we are still two years away from being competitive. That will be nine years. And IMO I don’t think we are going to be overly great in two years. Who will our D be? What about Miller?

It didnt work out, obviously........it wasnt Bennings decision though?

 

[theguardianII]

It didnt work out, obviously........it wasnt Bennings decision though?

This may help one way or the other;
From 2014 interviews;

Q: Is there such a thing as a Boston method, or is it simply identifying good players, putting people in positions in succeed, which is the template for every successful organization?

Benning: I never heard of the Boston model before I came out here, to be quite honest. Our goal is to make the playoffs every year, because by making the playoffs, we have a chance at winning the Cup. From there, we want to start integrating young players into the lineup, that was what we did in Boston, and that is what we’re going to try to do there.

From Kesler exit;
Kesler;
"To me, um, it just seemed like the direction they were going..didn't sit with my career...at the end of the day I want to win a championship and I want to win it now and uh..the 4 years was a little too long for me."

Benning, paraphrased, 2nd hand;
Benning insisted that the Canucks are re-tooling not rebuilding. Some might say there's no difference but there is. Benning wants and expects the Canucks to make the playoffs in 2014-15.

 

[I am toxic]

Facts. They'll get you every time.

 

[theguardianII]

Facts. They'll get you every time.

Well of course the 4 years has turned into 9 years minimum, myself, with this guy at the helm, 12 years and a single shot.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This may help one way or the other;
From 2014 interviews;

Q: Is there such a thing as a Boston method, or is it simply identifying good players, putting people in positions in succeed, which is the template for every successful organization?

Benning: I never heard of the Boston model before I came out here, to be quite honest. Our goal is to make the playoffs every year, because by making the playoffs, we have a chance at winning the Cup. From there, we want to start integrating young players into the lineup, that was what we did in Boston, and that is what we’re going to try to do there.

From Kesler exit;
Kesler;
"To me, um, it just seemed like the direction they were going..didn't sit with my career...at the end of the day I want to win a championship and I want to win it now and uh..the 4 years was a little too long for me."

Benning, paraphrased, 2nd hand;
Benning insisted that the Canucks are re-tooling not rebuilding. Some might say there's no difference but there is. Benning wants and expects the Canucks to make the playoffs in 2014-15.

This all correct, 'rebuild on the fly'...which continued for 3 years..Kesler wasnt a fool, after the Tortorella season , he knew the window was shut.

They did not actively try and be a playoff team in 2017-18, or 2018-19....but went for it in 2019-20.

 

[I am toxic]

This all correct, 'rebuild on the fly'...which continued for 3 years..Kesler wasnt a fool, after the Tortorella season , he knew the window was shut.

They did not actively try and be a playoff team in 2017-18, or 2018-19....but went for it in 2019-20.

Yer funny.

It literally reads "Benning insisted that the Canucks are re-tooling not rebuilding".

Literally.