Tim Murray has greatly impressed / Rehash Regier Era

[threeVo]

that's complementary to my point rather than a counter to it

Oh yea it is, i didnt even read past the first 2 replies on page 1 when i posted that

 

[SabreBlood]

Many mentions of Darcy Regier's "trading prowess" ... It's getting very old.

There are reasons the Sabres fell from grace, and it doesn't make sense that Regier was some GM Jedi even though the organization fell flat on it's face well prior to the decision to strip it down to the floor. He frankly had a bad decade of keeping the Sabres pipeline flush with the life blood of the organization.

And, aside from trades that happened over a decade ago.. What trading prowess are we talking about? Stripping a roster down to it's bare bones is easy. Trading solid players like Vanek and Pominville for high draft picks is easy. Moving Sekera and Roy for even more picks is something than any GM could do. But quite honestly, without Kevin Devine running the drafts and selecting players like Girgensons, Ristolainen and Zadorov, the lack of prospects that Regier acquired in deals have mostly missed the mark.

Larsson and Hackett are the only young prospects he actually acquired while dealing the likes of Sekera, Vanek, Roy, Gaustad, and Pominville.. and Hackett and Larsson are most likely not ever going to make an impact here.

On the other side of it, Murray has already acquired Deslauriers and Fasching, one of which is already contributing far more than both Larsson and Hackett likely ever will, and it feels like the ink on Tim Murray's deal just dried a few months ago.

Murray had to begin replenishing the forward prospect pool the day he arrived here. It begs the question, why couldn't Regier acquire young, promising prospects in any deal during his time with the strip down? This is another reason why the Sabres slowly dried up. Regier's snail's pace first and foremost, secondly, using the draft and only the draft (Devine) to build his prospect pool, year after year, and thirdly, his fear of losing anyone until he was forced to lose them due to their contractual agreements running out. That's just a poor job.

Regier gets way, way, way too much credit for stripping down a roster that was poorly put together over years and years in the first place.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Many mentions of Darcy Regier's "trading prowess" ... It's getting very old.

Larsson and Hackett are the only young prospects he actually acquired while dealing the likes of Sekera, Vanek, Roy, Gaustad, and Pominville.. and Hackett and Larsson are most likely not ever going to make an impact here.

Yeah, Girgensons (Gaustad), Compher (Sekera) Zadorov (Pominville) will never have an impact. Devine doesn't get to do anything without the trades. He didn't get much for Vanek at all, right. He also got Ott for Roy, I'd give him the edge there too.

I don't think he got enough for Sekera.

 

[Jame]

losing out on value in trades for specific players isn't really commendable until those players prove him right

I disagree

Having a vision and aggressively pursuing that vision is commendable

Whether he is successful or not will be another conversation.

If you want to play the "until proven" game, then you don't know yet if he lost in trade value either

 

[JLewyB]

the only thing that concerns me is his use of the salary cap. the moulson signing in particular. i hope we dont make any long term deals like that just to get to the cap floor. other than that and not drafting barbashev, I've really liked his moves.

 

[wunderpanda]

Not really fair to compare Murray with 1 year as GM during a rebuild to Darcy who was trying to add to a core to make the playoffs, different priorities. Now if you only look at Darcy during the tear down years he traded for Hodgson, the 1st for Zemgus, the 1st for Zad, the 2nd used for Compher & Bailey and the NYI 1st in 2015.

Too early to judge Fasching, Carrier may not be any better a prospect than Larsson and Deslauriers so far is a bottom 6 guy. Just different circumstances for the majority of Darcy era trades and he did acquire most of the assets Murray is trading anyway.

 

[Yatzhee]

I have read the responses with much surprise. In particular the caution, which is justly conveyed.

For myself, I see an identity of a team forming. I believe ROR will be in a sabres Jersey by draft day. I also believe Kane will be an impact player.

As for additional Murray moves, it's how he is quietly handling our vast prospect pool. I believe he sees the future roster already.

 

[enthusiast]

I'm a darcy apologist but there's something to be said for the exciting moves as a fan. Obviously it's not as important as the results on the ice but it's simply fun to see big moves from your own team, idk

 

[jvirk]

I'm not going to say he's greatly impressed, because besides the Reinhart pick I was not too happy with any of our picks in the draft last offseason. Albeit I'm not a hockey God but I thought there were ALOT of names out there that we should of picked, but then again we did get Reinhart so I'm not too sour about it.

I also think it was a little much to give up for Kane and Bogosian BUT I have started to warm up to it b/c for so many years our organization didn't make big time trades to be competitive and I understand in order to GET you have to GIVE.

I hope he does NOT part ways with Zads, Risto, or Pysyk from the d-corps. These 3 guys are studs...and I don't want them included in the O'reilly trade. Just b/c we draft a dman in the first round this year doesn't mean our prospect pool is stocked. It means we have to spend years developing that dman prospect again, which is a pain b/c they take years and years to develop. IF he does pull the trigger on O'reilly, I hope it's for McCabe, a first this year, and a 2nd rounder (+ prospect that's not high end if needed).

If he can bring in O'Reilly and draft McEichel - then I will say I'm greatly impressed. Until then, he's doing a good job, and I like his clear vision for the team.

 

[Ralonzo]

Many mentions of Darcy Regier's "trading prowess" ... It's getting very old.

There are reasons the Sabres fell from grace, and it doesn't make sense that Regier was some GM Jedi even though the organization fell flat on it's face well prior to the decision to strip it down to the floor. He frankly had a bad decade of keeping the Sabres pipeline flush with the life blood of the organization.

And, aside from trades that happened over a decade ago.. What trading prowess are we talking about?

Darcy does get a bad rap here, considering 90%+ of his tenure was as an internal cap team - at best.

People forget Darcy early on tweaked his inherited, over-achieving (yet entertaining) roster and got to the Finals in 2 years. Just via trades (and discounting rentals like Juneau, Gilmour, et al):

In: Jason Woolley, Geoff Sanderson, Stu Barnes, Rhett Warrener, Chris Gratton
Out: Pat LaFontaine, Brad May, Jason Dawe (made room for Varada), Donald Audette, Matt Barnaby, Derek Plante, Mike Wilson.

Then still being very competitive the next 2 years.

In: J.P. Dumont, Steve Heinze, Donald Audette (again)
Out: Michael Grosek

Then the first spin-out, as Peca's holdout and Hasek's wanting out blew up that roster. We know what came back - Pyatt, Connolly, Kozlov. That was all pretty much externally forced.

So, in 2002, rebuild 1 commences.

In: Jochen Hecht, Adam Mair, Danny Briere, Chris Drury, Mike Grier, Toni Lydman
Out: Gratton, Varada, Kozlov, Woolley, Varada, Rob Ray, Erik Bustmuffin, Warrener, Curtis Brown

That post-lockout team will rank as good as any Sabres team until they do win the Cup.

Then of course, Rigas/Golisano/Quinn blew that all up. This is when the stripdown should have started, but in those days playoff gates made the difference between viability and ... who knows what. So when you had to sell, i.e. Campbell, you sold. But there were rentals too, to try to get to the playoffs, and maybe steal a round (i.e. Zubrus). Those were the floundering, mediocre years.

Stripping a roster down to it's bare bones is easy. Trading solid players like Vanek and Pominville for high draft picks is easy. Moving Sekera and Roy for even more picks is something than any GM could do. But quite honestly, without Kevin Devine running the drafts and selecting players like Girgensons, Ristolainen and Zadorov, the lack of prospects that Regier acquired in deals have mostly missed the mark.

Don't forget the gutting of the scouting department going back to those shoestring days. I mean, do you really think they draft Jordon Southorn if they have enough scouts in the field?

Larsson and Hackett are the only young prospects he actually acquired while dealing the likes of Sekera, Vanek, Roy, Gaustad, and Pominville.. and Hackett and Larsson are most likely not ever going to make an impact here.

...

Regier gets way, way, way too much credit for stripping down a roster that was poorly put together over years and years in the first place.

He also gets slagged too much for doing, IMO, a very commendable job in disparate situations and under occasionally untenable environments for a GM. He put together probably 2 of the top 4 Sabres teams ever, under varying circumstances. Just when he finally got organizational carte blanche for the proper teardown and rebuild, he gets sacked. Why? For hiring Rolston? I thought Ron Rolston was the worst possible choice for a head coach - unless your plan was to draft high. Same thing people are saying about Nolan here.

I liked Regier's knack for identifying players in other systems that maybe were badly utilized and putting them into a role where they could excel. If you check the entire trade history, no he didn't win every deal. There's 4 outcomes, win-win, lose-lose, win-lose and lose period. The franchise simply waited to long to repair the damage from Rigas/Golisano/NHL days, but there were reasons for that as well.

 

[Firewagon]

the only thing that concerns me is his use of the salary cap. the moulson signing in particular. i hope we dont make any long term deals like that just to get to the cap floor. other than that and not drafting barbashev, I've really liked his moves.

Not taking Barbashev was really disappointing to me. I understand that Barbashev was not chosen by anyone else in the 30 picks before the Sabres opened round 2, but:
(1) there was a strong connection between the Sabres and Moncton with Nolan and Danny Flynn, who was leaving Moncton as GM and former coach to be Nolan's assistant, and (2) (if there's any truth to it) Lemieux's reluctance to sign in Buffalo (or the difficulty of dealing with Claude.

That said, Lemieux seems to have been an important piece in the Winnipeg deal.

It's certainly on my list of things to re-visit in 3-4 years when assessing GMTM's performance.

 

[goldstandard]

But there were rentals too, to try to get to the playoffs, and maybe steal a round (i.e. Zubrus). Those were the floundering, mediocre years.

There was a lot factually incorrect in your post, but this made me laugh. Zubrus was brought in the year we won the Presidents Trophy.

 

[YoungGrapes]

Here is what I see ...

1) GMTM inherits last place team, ends in last place. Our first line would be a good teams 2nd/3rd line for the most part. Picks up ZERO players all year for free on waivers to if anything give the players false hope that they are more than the Cleveland Indians in Major League 1.

2) NHL team and AHL team in last place, not a lot of talk about trading away leading goal scored Luke Adam for Jerry D'Amigo and his whopping numbers to help out on the farm. Keeps Girgs, Armia, Larrson, Pysk, McCabe in the AHL practically all year to develop under Cassidy and sit in what last most of the season. Everyone talking about Nolan not liking or wanting to develop the kids, Girgs, Risto, Zads, all 20 and under all improved this year so far.

3) Trade Myers for a talented player unlike by teammates and has off ice issues. That's the kind of guy I want in my dressing room when i could get the next 'Crosby' in McDavid. What did Pitt do they surrounded Crosby with veteran quality leaders, Lemieux, Guiren, Recchi, Roberts ... This is shaping up to be EDM 2.0

4) All he talks about is the youth and the rebuild, if you don't get a few quality vets in to help teach the kids how to win (frog sorry we have Mez for that) then it will be a losing culture for a while, the team already believes its ok to lose because management will be happy. The coaching staff is screwed on that one because their players don't HATE to lose because there isn't a consequence, awful foundation.

5) I'm still baffled on the McNabb and 2 seconds (Alex Lintuniemi + 2015) for Fasching (a 4th rd with 8 goals this season) and Deslauriers. When the objective is to rebuild, then trade your first pick in the second round Lemiuex and say because he wouldn't sign ... maybe do your homework before the draft especially on his character level. Barbashev will be a horse in the NHL, )both him and Jaskin in STL played for Flynn in Moncton).

6) Management skills, I got a kick out of his draft selection speech at his first draft (after which stating he would take Reinhardt first anyway of the week, still says it. If he wouldn't take Ekblad he is little DRUNK). But what makes me question his leadership is the fact that the Sabres have beaten some top teams in the league and just took NASH to a shoot out with out 2 of their top 4 D in the line up. Not once this year has he had anything positive to say about the staff or really the players. Especially in a trying season regardless if you are going to fire the coach or not, still lead who you have show a little respect. "We all know the season thats happening, we are young and rebuilding this thing for the future. I was really happy the way we beat top teams in the league, and kept scores close for the most part considering our lack of scoring". This guy has ZERO personality and has never done anything except scout and work for his uncle. He may have the scouting down, but it takes more to build a team then assessing talent, this isn't NHL 2015. Need some character, grit, support and so on ... what was Herb Brooks line in Miracle "Not looking for the best players, we are looking for the right ones"

End Rant, shred me up for having compassion for Nolan and not blowing GMTM just yet ... lol

Not taking Barbashev was really disappointing to me. I understand that Barbashev was not chosen by anyone else in the 30 picks before the Sabres opened round 2, but:
(1) there was a strong connection between the Sabres and Moncton with Nolan and Danny Flynn, who was leaving Moncton as GM and former coach to be Nolan's assistant, and (2) (if there's any truth to it) Lemieux's reluctance to sign in Buffalo (or the difficulty of dealing with Claude.

That said, Lemieux seems to have been an important piece in the Winnipeg deal.

It's certainly on my list of things to re-visit in 3-4 years when assessing GMTM's performance.

 

[yahhockey]

I think the jury is still out on what TM has done and what the impact will be on the Sabres. A lot of pieces were already in place thanks to Darcy Regier. Pysyk, Grigo, Girgs, Risto and Zads are all on him not to mention McCabe, Compher, Hurley and Bailey taken in the second round of his final two drafts. Drafting Reinhart was a no-brainer but then look at the debate over the second round selections including the now traded Lemieux. Some of the TM trades seem good, a couple could be questionable but overall it will take a few years to know if they were good or bad moves. The best thing he has done is encourage the tank which I believe in his heart he knows he is icing a losing team with zero intentions of competing for anything other than 30th. Moving forward lets see what the team looks like as we truly attempt to win games and compete on a nightly basis. Hopefully our first first round selection is a no-brainer but which other players will be taken in the first two rounds and will they spark as much debate as last year's draft picks?

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Here is what I see ...

1) GMTM inherits last place team, ends in last place. Our first line would be a good teams 2nd/3rd line for the most part. Picks up ZERO players all year for free on waivers to if anything give the players false hope that they are more than the Cleveland Indians in Major League 1.

2) NHL team and AHL team in last place, not a lot of talk about trading away leading goal scored Luke Adam for Jerry D'Amigo and his whopping numbers to help out on the farm. Keeps Girgs, Armia, Larrson, Pysk, McCabe in the AHL practically all year to develop under Cassidy and sit in what last most of the season. Everyone talking about Nolan not liking or wanting to develop the kids, Girgs, Risto, Zads, all 20 and under all improved this year so far.

3) Trade Myers for a talented player unlike by teammates and has off ice issues. That's the kind of guy I want in my dressing room when i could get the next 'Crosby' in McDavid. What did Pitt do they surrounded Crosby with veteran quality leaders, Lemieux, Guiren, Recchi, Roberts ... This is shaping up to be EDM 2.0

4) All he talks about is the youth and the rebuild, if you don't get a few quality vets in to help teach the kids how to win (frog sorry we have Mez for that) then it will be a losing culture for a while, the team already believes its ok to lose because management will be happy. The coaching staff is screwed on that one because their players don't HATE to lose because there isn't a consequence, awful foundation.

5) I'm still baffled on the McNabb and 2 seconds (Alex Lintuniemi + 2015) for Fasching (a 4th rd with 8 goals this season) and Deslauriers. When the objective is to rebuild, then trade your first pick in the second round Lemiuex and say because he wouldn't sign ... maybe do your homework before the draft especially on his character level. Barbashev will be a horse in the NHL, )both him and Jaskin in STL played for Flynn in Moncton).

6) Management skills, I got a kick out of his draft selection speech at his first draft (after which stating he would take Reinhardt first anyway of the week, still says it. If he wouldn't take Ekblad he is little DRUNK). But what makes me question his leadership is the fact that the Sabres have beaten some top teams in the league and just took NASH to a shoot out with out 2 of their top 4 D in the line up. Not once this year has he had anything positive to say about the staff or really the players. Especially in a trying season regardless if you are going to fire the coach or not, still lead who you have show a little respect. "We all know the season thats happening, we are young and rebuilding this thing for the future. I was really happy the way we beat top teams in the league, and kept scores close for the most part considering our lack of scoring". This guy has ZERO personality and has never done anything except scout and work for his uncle. He may have the scouting down, but it takes more to build a team then assessing talent, this isn't NHL 2015. Need some character, grit, support and so on ... what was Herb Brooks line in Miracle "Not looking for the best players, we are looking for the right ones"

End Rant, shred me up for having compassion for Nolan and not blowing GMTM just yet ... lol

1) He picked up guys on waivers last year. See D'Agostini, Matt and Conacher, Cory, and if I remember correctly the team was decimated with injuries so it was close to mandatory. The forward corps hasn't taken too many injuries this season, aside from the small stretch where Grigs, Armia, Larsson and Schaller were called up.

2) Adam had no future here anyway, had more to do than just scoring. Bringing up all the kids would be EDM 2.0 as you would say. Keep the guys who can be sent down and aren't ready down there. Let them grow although Chadd isn't the best man to do it.

3) Gorges? Moulson? Gionta? Matt Freaking Ellis? We also got Bogo in the trade too.

4) How do you know the players don't HATE to lose? The players probably aren't happy with this losing. Again, quality vets listed above.

5) McNabb was stuck in a logjam here. Fasching was highly coveted by Murray, read up on him if you're considered about his draft status. Deslauriers is proving to be at least a decent 4th liner here. Nobody knew that Lemiuex wouldn't sign when he was drafted.

6) Even Nashville fans are saying they didn't play well today. Plus this team is relying heavily on goalies standing on their heads. They simply don't have the talent to regularly beat top teams. "Not looking for the best players, we are looking for the right ones"? Murray's looking for the right ones he wants. Kane, Bogo, Fasching...

Give him more time before you start bashing him so soon.

 

[wunderpanda]

Here is what I see ...

1) GMTM inherits last place team, ends in last place. Our first line would be a good teams 2nd/3rd line for the most part. Picks up ZERO players all year for free on waivers to if anything give the players false hope that they are more than the Cleveland Indians in Major League 1.

I agree to a point, first 10 games were seeing how Reinhart and others did, next 10 games were seeing how the 40 pointers Hodgson and Ennis would fit with Gionta, Moulson, Stafford and Stewart then they had a winning streak. When Foligno & Gionta were injured he could have added some bodies from waivers (can't recall who was waived back then)

2) NHL team and AHL team in last place, not a lot of talk about trading away leading goal scored Luke Adam for Jerry D'Amigo and his whopping numbers to help out on the farm. Keeps Girgs, Armia, Larrson, Pysk, McCabe in the AHL practically all year to develop under Cassidy and sit in what last most of the season. Everyone talking about Nolan not liking or wanting to develop the kids, Girgs, Risto, Zads, all 20 and under all improved this year so far.

Agreed. I do see some logic in not having that many young guys on the NHL roster, but he could have improved the Amerks roster to help develop the guys down there

3) Trade Myers for a talented player unlike by teammates and has off ice issues. That's the kind of guy I want in my dressing room when i could get the next 'Crosby' in McDavid. What did Pitt do they surrounded Crosby with veteran quality leaders, Lemieux, Guiren, Recchi, Roberts ... This is shaping up to be EDM 2.0

I am biased, happy that Evander is a Sabre. Kane was surrounded by veterans in Winnipeg and he still had issues but nobody knows the root cause. Not worried that he will be a bad influence, between the trade and the surgery he has time for introspection and Murray has time to sign additional leader-types to help whomever is drafted.

I can see why Oilers 2.0 is a concern, but they lacked stability in management, coaching and one ice leadership and we aren't far enough along with Murray to see how it plays out. (yea, I'm concerned about it as well)

4) All he talks about is the youth and the rebuild, if you don't get a few quality vets in to help teach the kids how to win (frog sorry we have Mez for that) then it will be a losing culture for a while, the team already believes its ok to lose because management will be happy. The coaching staff is screwed on that one because their players don't HATE to lose because there isn't a consequence, awful foundation.

I do agree that quality vets are a concern, but he did bring in a few players to ensure we didn't roll 4 rookies on defense. It does worry me his plan in preseason was 3 centres all 20 or younger but Reinhart and Grigo were sent away and that crisis was avoided for now. The players are emotional and do care about winning, they come out strong and finish strong nearly every game. I credit Nolan and the staff for that, but it is also showing the players are resilient and have character.

5) I'm still baffled on the McNabb and 2 seconds (Alex Lintuniemi + 2015) for Fasching (a 4th rd with 8 goals this season) and Deslauriers. When the objective is to rebuild, then trade your first pick in the second round Lemiuex and say because he wouldn't sign ... maybe do your homework before the draft especially on his character level. Barbashev will be a horse in the NHL, )both him and Jaskin in STL played for Flynn in Moncton).

Flynn was hired months after the draft I think, entire staff seemed last minute. I don't understand the McNabb trade either, seems a big LHD would come in handy. Fasching had some family issues that affected his draft stock but could work out if he ever signs, along with Deslauriers its a waiting game. I'll add Murray seemed ignorant about the Zadorov/KHL junior waiver issue.

6) Management skills, I got a kick out of his draft selection speech at his first draft (after which stating he would take Reinhardt first anyway of the week, still says it. If he wouldn't take Ekblad he is little DRUNK). But what makes me question his leadership is the fact that the Sabres have beaten some top teams in the league and just took NASH to a shoot out with out 2 of their top 4 D in the line up. Not once this year has he had anything positive to say about the staff or really the players. Especially in a trying season regardless if you are going to fire the coach or not, still lead who you have show a little respect. "We all know the season thats happening, we are young and rebuilding this thing for the future. I was really happy the way we beat top teams in the league, and kept scores close for the most part considering our lack of scoring". This guy has ZERO personality and has never done anything except scout and work for his uncle. He may have the scouting down, but it takes more to build a team then assessing talent, this isn't NHL 2015. Need some character, grit, support and so on ... what was Herb Brooks line in Miracle "Not looking for the best players, we are looking for the right ones"

Glad I'm not the only one who see's this, all I recall him saying is *they need to try harder, I hate to lose* and just feels like he is passing blame to the team he constructed. I'll add another concern, he gets credit for the Ducks when it was one of the deepest drafts, followed by a lockout so they could all mature and then augmented by Burke going crazy with trades. His 2010 Calder team was veterans, a handful of guys made the NHL and the team fell off a cliff the next season. Benoit may be the most prolific graduate of that Calder team and lets be honest, the Sens have paralleled the Sabres pretty close the last decade in the standings. Again, too early to say how he will do but I share some concerns and have a few of my own.

Despite that, I still think it is too early to judge how this comes together.

 

[Paxon]

Here is what I see ...

1) GMTM inherits last place team, ends in last place. Our first line would be a good teams 2nd/3rd line for the most part. Picks up ZERO players all year for free on waivers to if anything give the players false hope that they are more than the Cleveland Indians in Major League 1.

What waived players would give false hope? Why would you want false hope?

2) NHL team and AHL team in last place, not a lot of talk about trading away leading goal scored Luke Adam for Jerry D'Amigo and his whopping numbers to help out on the farm. Keeps Girgs, Armia, Larrson, Pysk, McCabe in the AHL practically all year to develop under Cassidy and sit in what last most of the season. Everyone talking about Nolan not liking or wanting to develop the kids, Girgs, Risto, Zads, all 20 and under all improved this year so far.

Luke Adam isn't even good in the AHL. He's bad defensively and not all too impressive as a producer at even strength. Are you suggesting the players in the AHL haven't been improving? They have. As much as I don't like Cassiddy he's done fine when it comes to the prospects. That the team is in last place doesn't really matter in terms of development. I would have liked to have seen Pysyk and Larsson with the big club but Larsson in particular just isn't used properly by Nolan, so he's perhaps he was best off down there. Pysyk should've been up though. Grigorenko is in the right place. McCabe certainly is. He's a 1st year pro who wasn't even ready to be good in the AHL at the start of the year.

3) Trade Myers for a talented player unlike by teammates and has off ice issues. That's the kind of guy I want in my dressing room when i could get the next 'Crosby' in McDavid. What did Pitt do they surrounded Crosby with veteran quality leaders, Lemieux, Guiren, Recchi, Roberts ... This is shaping up to be EDM 2.0

If you think McDavid is going to succumb to "negative influences" or needs positive ones you're overstating the impact of such things. What Crosby became as a professional in terms of his professionalism and approach was pretty much set in stone by the team he was drafted if not when he was 16. The same is true of McDavid. McDavid has things figured out as much as any 18 year old you'll see in sports. Do you think McDavid is going to just stop working on his game when it's an obsessive part of his personality and has been for most of his life? This is classic correlation not equaling causation. Those veterans didn't make Crosby into what he is, he did. You aren't mentioning that Myers was also traded for Bogosian, a guy who is a great example of a hard-nosed professional. I think most would assume Bogosian is a better on and off ice leader for Myers, which is who Myers was essentially traded for. Kane was brought in for futures and Stafford who was gone in another trade if not this one, at least if you look at who is replacing who.

4) All he talks about is the youth and the rebuild, if you don't get a few quality vets in to help teach the kids how to win (frog sorry we have Mez for that) then it will be a losing culture for a while, the team already believes its ok to lose because management will be happy. The coaching staff is screwed on that one because their players don't HATE to lose because there isn't a consequence, awful foundation.

What consequences do you imagine there could be for losing? No locker room warriors would stop this team from losing, so any "consequences" they might pretend to put in place would be a laugh. It's not like all the players are sleepwalking through the season, they just aren't good enough collectively to do much better. What the team needs is good players, not veterans to teach youth. "Losing culture" is B.S. If you get good players, you win more, players start to expect to win. If your team sucks, you lose more, that expectation of winning obviously isn't and shouldn't be there. Obviously you need the right attitude, mentality, and mix in the locker room, but that isn't an issue with this team. The talent level is not good enough to win, period. Is this something to evaluate as the talent level rises and the team enters the playoff hunt? Yeah.

5) I'm still baffled on the McNabb and 2 seconds (Alex Lintuniemi + 2015) for Fasching (a 4th rd with 8 goals this season) and Deslauriers. When the objective is to rebuild, then trade your first pick in the second round Lemiuex and say because he wouldn't sign ... maybe do your homework before the draft especially on his character level. Barbashev will be a horse in the NHL, )both him and Jaskin in STL played for Flynn in Moncton).

Murray said the opposite, that Lemieux's lack of contract had nothing to do with the trade and that he felt optimistic he'd have been able to sign Lemieux in time. I have no idea if that's true or not. It doesn't really matter to me. He should have taken Barbashev. I'm still not happy about it but I have no problem with trading Lemieux in a package for Kane.

6) Management skills, I got a kick out of his draft selection speech at his first draft (after which stating he would take Reinhardt first anyway of the week, still says it. If he wouldn't take Ekblad he is little DRUNK). But what makes me question his leadership is the fact that the Sabres have beaten some top teams in the league and just took NASH to a shoot out with out 2 of their top 4 D in the line up. Not once this year has he had anything positive to say about the staff or really the players. Especially in a trying season regardless if you are going to fire the coach or not, still lead who you have show a little respect. "We all know the season thats happening, we are young and rebuilding this thing for the future. I was really happy the way we beat top teams in the league, and kept scores close for the most part considering our lack of scoring". This guy has ZERO personality and has never done anything except scout and work for his uncle. He may have the scouting down, but it takes more to build a team then assessing talent, this isn't NHL 2015. Need some character, grit, support and so on ... what was Herb Brooks line in Miracle "Not looking for the best players, we are looking for the right ones"

I guess it's fair to say he hasn't said anything positive in the way you're talking about. It's not like he gets a lot of opportunity to and really the team hasn't exactly earned any kudos. Taking Nashville to a shootout isn't an accomplishment. The team got totally dominated by a Nashville team that's going through a poor stretch. Neuvirth deserved kudos last night and that's it. Now, it's not like they should be doing any better either, but they're certainly not playing above themselves.

Where Nolan is concerned yeah, he could stand to say something about how Nolan's kept the room together during such a nightmare season, but really that's the only thing Nolan has clearly done well. That Murray doesn't ever seem to go out of his way to say anything positive about Nolan probably says a lot about how he sees Nolan. I imagine his days are numbered.

End Rant, shred me up for having compassion for Nolan and not blowing GMTM just yet ... lol

I have compassion for Nolan myself, but personally I'd prefer to see him replaced next season. I wouldn't prefer to see Murray replaced even if I won't sit here and say he's been fantastic so far (way too early).

 

[SoFFacet]

1) GMTM inherits last place team, ends in last place. Our first line would be a good teams 2nd/3rd line for the most part. Picks up ZERO players all year for free on waivers to if anything give the players false hope that they are more than the Cleveland Indians in Major League 1.

First of all ending in last place was a good thing, it guaranteed Reinhart. Second of all it doesn't make any sense that waiver wire players could have saved the season, nor created the hope that they would. Third of all he did in fact pick up Conacher.

2) NHL team and AHL team in last place, not a lot of talk about trading away leading goal scored Luke Adam for Jerry D'Amigo and his whopping numbers to help out on the farm. Keeps Girgs, Armia, Larrson, Pysk, McCabe in the AHL practically all year to develop under Cassidy and sit in what last most of the season. Everyone talking about Nolan not liking or wanting to develop the kids, Girgs, Risto, Zads, all 20 and under all improved this year so far.

Luke Adam is a bust and a total non-entity as far as the evaluation of TM is concerned. The fact that the Amerks are in last has no bearing on whether or not those particular prospects are improving. I think that last night was plain evidence that McCabe and Pysyk have.

3) Trade Myers for a talented player unlike by teammates and has off ice issues. That's the kind of guy I want in my dressing room when i could get the next 'Crosby' in McDavid. What did Pitt do they surrounded Crosby with veteran quality leaders, Lemieux, Guiren, Recchi, Roberts ... This is shaping up to be EDM 2.0

Kane is obviously not here to be a veteran role model, he is here to be a good young player. We have plenty of other, actual veterans around to be role models.

Also, in your previous bullet you were criticizing the decision to keep youngsters in the AHL, which is the exact opposite of pulling an "Edmonton."

) All he talks about is the youth and the rebuild, if you don't get a few quality vets in to help teach the kids how to win (frog sorry we have Mez for that) then it will be a losing culture for a while, the team already believes its ok to lose because management will be happy. The coaching staff is screwed on that one because their players don't HATE to lose because there isn't a consequence, awful foundation.

Gionta, Moulson, Gorges, Weber...

5) I'm still baffled on the McNabb and 2 seconds (Alex Lintuniemi + 2015) for Fasching (a 4th rd with 8 goals this season) and Deslauriers. When the objective is to rebuild, then trade your first pick in the second round Lemiuex and say because he wouldn't sign ... maybe do your homework before the draft especially on his character level. Barbashev will be a horse in the NHL, )both him and Jaskin in STL played for Flynn in Moncton).

If you are still concerned about Fasching's draft pedigree, you really need to read up on him.

The objective of a rebuild is to acquire good young players through whatever means are necessary. It was necessary to include Lemieux in the Kane/Bogo deal. Part of the reason to acquire so many picks is to be able to afford to include some in deals such as that.

It's actually a very good thing that TM is not complacently waiting around 4-5 years for enough of our 2nd rounders to develop before we can start competing. We need to be as bad as possible this year to guarantee McEichel, followed by being as good as possible next year, to establish an immediate upward trend and a positive NHL environment for the most important youngsters. You can tell that every move TM has made has furthered those goals, and that this approach is the exact opposite of the "Edmonton" model.

6) Management skills, I got a kick out of his draft selection speech at his first draft (after which stating he would take Reinhardt first anyway of the week, still says it. If he wouldn't take Ekblad he is little DRUNK). But what makes me question his leadership is the fact that the Sabres have beaten some top teams in the league and just took NASH to a shoot out with out 2 of their top 4 D in the line up. Not once this year has he had anything positive to say about the staff or really the players. Especially in a trying season regardless if you are going to fire the coach or not, still lead who you have show a little respect. "We all know the season thats happening, we are young and rebuilding this thing for the future. I was really happy the way we beat top teams in the league, and kept scores close for the most part considering our lack of scoring". This guy has ZERO personality and has never done anything except scout and work for his uncle. He may have the scouting down, but it takes more to build a team then assessing talent, this isn't NHL 2015. Need some character, grit, support and so on ... what was Herb Brooks line in Miracle "Not looking for the best players, we are looking for the right ones"

No idea where you're coming from on that. TM has more personality than any GM I've seen. The guy is Dwight Schrute.

 

[Karate Johnson*]

Murray is so awesome.

 

[Djp]

Many mentions of Darcy Regier's "trading prowess" ... It's getting very old.

There are reasons the Sabres fell from grace, and it doesn't make sense that Regier was some GM Jedi even though the organization fell flat on it's face well prior to the decision to strip it down to the floor. He frankly had a bad decade of keeping the Sabres pipeline flush with the life blood of the organization.

And, aside from trades that happened over a decade ago.. What trading prowess are we talking about? Stripping a roster down to it's bare bones is easy. Trading solid players like Vanek and Pominville for high draft picks is easy. Moving Sekera and Roy for even more picks is something than any GM could do. But quite honestly, without Kevin Devine running the drafts and selecting players like Girgensons, Ristolainen and Zadorov, the lack of prospects that Regier acquired in deals have mostly missed the mark.

Larsson and Hackett are the only young prospects he actually acquired while dealing the likes of Sekera, Vanek, Roy, Gaustad, and Pominville.. and Hackett and Larsson are most likely not ever going to make an impact here.

What about those draft picks?? Do they have value?

Darcy does get a bad rap here, considering 90%+ of his tenure was as an internal cap team - at best.

People forget Darcy early on tweaked his inherited, over-achieving (yet entertaining) roster and got to the Finals in 2 years. Just via trades (and discounting rentals like Juneau, Gilmour, et al):


I liked Regier's knack for identifying players in other systems that maybe were badly utilized and putting them into a role where they could excel. If you check the entire trade history, no he didn't win every deal. There's 4 outcomes, win-win, lose-lose, win-lose and lose period. The franchise simply waited to long to repair the damage from Rigas/Golisano/NHL days, but there were reasons for that as well.

The issue with Darcy was inability to make big trades when he was the buyer and when exactly to be the seller.

He was good at talent evaluation and getting players for other systems.

He would never had made the Kane/Myers trade---NEVER.

With the draft he may have been the type to go with the safer pick. The one pick Id love an explanation on from him is why he passed on Nick Foligno.

Stafford and Afinaganov were two players hed ask too much when they were hot and couldnt move them when nthey were cold.

I know Darcy had issues beyond his control like seeing Drury and Brierre walk and he could not do anything.

 

[FearTheBeard]

First of all ending in last place was a good thing, it guaranteed Reinhart. Second of all it doesn't make any sense that waiver wire players could have saved the season, nor created the hope that they would. Third of all he did in fact pick up Conacher.



Luke Adam is a bust and a total non-entity as far as the evaluation of TM is concerned. The fact that the Amerks are in last has no bearing on whether or not those particular prospects are improving. I think that last night was plain evidence that McCabe and Pysyk have.



Kane is obviously not here to be a veteran role model, he is here to be a good young player. We have plenty of other, actual veterans around to be role models.

Also, in your previous bullet you were criticizing the decision to keep youngsters in the AHL, which is the exact opposite of pulling an "Edmonton."



Gionta, Moulson, Gorges, Weber...




If you are still concerned about Fasching's draft pedigree, you really need to read up on him.

The objective of a rebuild is to acquire good young players through whatever means are necessary. It was necessary to include Lemieux in the Kane/Bogo deal. Part of the reason to acquire so many picks is to be able to afford to include some in deals such as that.

It's actually a very good thing that TM is not complacently waiting around 4-5 years for enough of our 2nd rounders to develop before we can start competing. We need to be as bad as possible this year to guarantee McEichel, followed by being as good as possible next year, to establish an immediate upward trend and a positive NHL environment for the most important youngsters. You can tell that every move TM has made has furthered those goals, and that this approach is the exact opposite of the "Edmonton" model.



No idea where you're coming from on that. TM has more personality than any GM I've seen. The guy is Dwight Schrute.

LOL nice. With a little more maturity though right?

 

[OkimLom]

What about those draft picks?? Do they have value?





The issue with Darcy was inability to make big trades when he was the buyer and when exactly to be the seller.

He was good at talent evaluation and getting players for other systems.

He would never had made the Kane/Myers trade---NEVER.

With the draft he may have been the type to go with the safer pick. The one pick Id love an explanation on from him is why he passed on Nick Foligno.

Stafford and Afinaganov were two players hed ask too much when they were hot and couldnt move them when nthey were cold.

I know Darcy had issues beyond his control like seeing Drury and Brierre walk and he could not do anything.

I think part of the reason why he wouldn't do the trades was because of the RISK of LOSING the trade, because he HAD to win the trade. He seemed to a GM agents/players didn't want to deal with, so he couldn't get free agents to sign here without overpaying by a lot more than any players on the market would get.

 

[ZeroPT*]

.

1) GMTM inherits last place team, ends in last place. Our first line would be a good teams 2nd/3rd line for the most part. Picks up ZERO players all year for free on waivers to if anything give the players false hope that they are more than the Cleveland Indians in Major League 1.

He claimed a few guys on waivers last year and there really isn't anyone of note on waivers this year so that's kinda cilly

2) NHL team and AHL team in last place, not a lot of talk about trading away leading goal scored Luke Adam for Jerry D'Amigo and his whopping numbers to help out on the farm. Keeps Girgs, Armia, Larrson, Pysk, McCabe in the AHL practically all year to develop under Cassidy and sit in what last most of the season. Everyone talking about Nolan not liking or wanting to develop the kids, Girgs, Risto, Zads, all 20 and under all improved this year so far.

Luke Adam is hot garbage at every level.

3) Trade Myers for a talented player unlike by teammates and has off ice issues. That's the kind of guy I want in my dressing room when i could get the next 'Crosby' in McDavid. What did Pitt do they surrounded Crosby with veteran quality leaders, Lemieux, Guiren, Recchi, Roberts ... This is shaping up to be EDM 2.0

McDavid and Eichel are such amazing prospects that you could put them in any locker room and it would largely be irrelevant. They won't let a clown disrupt their careers that have been on a path to greatness for years now.

4) All he talks about is the youth and the rebuild, if you don't get a few quality vets in to help teach the kids how to win (frog sorry we have Mez for that) then it will be a losing culture for a while, the team already believes its ok to lose because management will be happy. The coaching staff is screwed on that one because their players don't HATE to lose because there isn't a consequence, awful foundation.

Bogosian? Gionta? Moulson? Gorges? There is plenty of veteran support. That is one thing he can't be critisized for

5) I'm still baffled on the McNabb and 2 seconds (Alex Lintuniemi + 2015) for Fasching (a 4th rd with 8 goals this season) and Deslauriers. When the objective is to rebuild, then trade your first pick in the second round Lemiuex and say because he wouldn't sign ... maybe do your homework before the draft especially on his character level. Barbashev will be a horse in the NHL, )both him and Jaskin in STL played for Flynn in Moncton).

that's such an honest and non-twisted criticism of a prospect. Like it isn't twisted to suit a narrative. At all.

6) Management skills, I got a kick out of his draft selection speech at his first draft (after which stating he would take Reinhardt first anyway of the week, still says it. If he wouldn't take Ekblad he is little DRUNK). But what makes me question his leadership is the fact that the Sabres have beaten some top teams in the league and just took NASH to a shoot out with out 2 of their top 4 D in the line up. Not once this year has he had anything positive to say about the staff or really the players. Especially in a trying season regardless if you are going to fire the coach or not, still lead who you have show a little respect. "We all know the season thats happening, we are young and rebuilding this thing for the future. I was really happy the way we beat top teams in the league, and kept scores close for the most part considering our lack of scoring". This guy has ZERO personality and has never done anything except scout and work for his uncle. He may have the scouting down, but it takes more to build a team then assessing talent, this isn't NHL 2015. Need some character, grit, support and so on ... what was Herb Brooks line in Miracle "Not looking for the best players, we are looking for the right ones"

This is largely irrelevant.

 

[YoungGrapes]

He claimed a few guys on waivers last year and there really isn't anyone of note on waivers this year so that's kinda cilly


Luke Adam is hot garbage at every level.

McDavid and Eichel are such amazing prospects that you could put them in any locker room and it would largely be irrelevant. They won't let a clown disrupt their careers that have been on a path to greatness for years now.


Bogosian? Gionta? Moulson? Gorges? There is plenty of veteran support. That is one thing he can't be critisized for

that's such an honest and non-twisted criticism of a prospect. Like it isn't twisted to suit a narrative. At all.

This is largely irrelevant.

sorry i meant we GOT FASCHING who has 8 GOALS so far this season in NCAA and Nick Deslauriers who is a converted D playing forward on the fourth line with with 5 goals, all we had to give up was Brayden McNabb who has played in 50 games and has 17 points with the defending Stanley Cup Champions,( not to mentioned he may have played above such over achievers on LD like Benoit, Mezaros and Weber). Since that wasn't enough we tossed in not 1 but 2 2nd round picks. Then moved our third second rounder in a trade. A veteran GM wouldn't move second rounders for 4th liners when you are in a major rebuild, every good team talks about the draft being their life blood especially with the cap. But not GMTM we are way better off with out our 2 second round picks and have a fourth liner and an 8 goal college kid.

 

[cybresabre]

sorry i meant we GOT FASCHING who has 8 GOALS so far this season in NCAA and Nick Deslauriers who is a converted D playing forward on the fourth line with with 5 goals, all we had to give up was Brayden McNabb who has played in 50 games and has 17 points with the defending Stanley Cup Champions,( not to mentioned he may have played above such over achievers on LD like Benoit, Mezaros and Weber). Since that wasn't enough we tossed in not 1 but 2 2nd round picks. Then moved our third second rounder in a trade. A veteran GM wouldn't move second rounders for 4th liners when you are in a major rebuild, every good team talks about the draft being their life blood especially with the cap. But not GMTM we are way better off with out our 2 second round picks and have a fourth liner and an 8 goal college kid.

Worry about Fasching being a bad trade target if he fizzles at the next two levels. He's just a baby. Murray identified him as a prospect who fits the model of team he wants to build and he paid the price to get him. His value has gone up since the draft and players like that are rarely traded. Fans don't make trades, but every Kings fan on the boards that I've seen would love to have him back.

McNabb had been in the organization for a long time and played for several coaches and didn't make his mark. Two of those three guys weren't on the team when he was traded and the deal wouldn't have gone down if we had tried to trade Weber. I'd rather be watching McNabb light guys up at the blue line than the trio of goofballs you listed, but he wouldn't be putting up points like that here. Jamie McBain is putting up a 31 point pace on the defending Stanley Cup Champions and I'm glad he's gone.