Confirmed with Link: Tim Burke promoted to Assistant GM DWJR to Dir. of Scouting

[The Nemesis]

I strongly feel this is a “promoted into a dead-end” type of deal for Burke. What does an AGM even do?

Regardless, this can only be an improvement.

Very little anymore, now that the old GM/AGM power structure has gone through title inflation to the point that it's essentially carried out by the President/GM combo (the President is now generally the brain behind deals and team direction, the GM is the office jockey who does the paperwork and phone calls and all the fiddly difficult stuff that the braintrust figures they're too smart/important to bother with)

 

[Nighthock]

What the HELL is going on around here??!!

 

[matt trick]

What’s next, Mike Potenza promoted to Surgeon General?

Let S/4Hana run the team.

Perfect....

...I work for SAP

 

[OffSydes]

Assistant to the Assistant General Manager

 

[68 Z-28]

Assistant to the Assistant General Manager

Schrute’in it up are we?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Assistant to the Assistant General Manager

*Assistant assistant general manager

Anybody who isn’t sure how they feel about the move needs to watch this video.



DW Jr. was pretty obviously an authority figure here rather than Burke. Junior was clearly calling the shots here and implementing his philosophy; a philosophy which more or less mirrors what we’ve been clamoring for since I joined this forum. Junior was clearly the driving force behind the Merkley pick and if we draft with that philosophy every year, we’re bound to do very well. Merkley is obviously a fantastic pick and if we give Burke credit for it, Merkley will almost certainly be Burke’s best (or 2nd best behind Hertl) pick of the decade.

 

[Jaleel619]

Fun little watch there, definetly a positive move.

 

[Kcoyote3]

I dunno, as much as we hate on Burke I really hope we keep some of that late round magic he's had in his tenure.

 

[Negatively Positive]

Now I think we know why they made that video showing off DW jr. They've never done something like that before. I think they realize there'll be questions about his youth, inexperience, and nepotism. Assuming DW jr had a big say in all the draft picks this year, how would you grade the draft? Most people were pleased with the Merkley pick but what about the rest of the draft? There wasn't a lot of buzz about the late round picks this year like with the ChTwins last year where people said we got steals.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Now I think we know why they made that video showing off DW jr. They've never done something like that before. I think they realize there'll be questions about his youth, inexperience, and nepotism. Assuming DW jr had a big say in all the draft picks this year, how would you grade the draft? Most people were pleased with the Merkley pick but what about the rest of the draft? There wasn't a lot of buzz about the late round picks this year like with the ChTwins last year where people said we got steals.

Merkley and nothing is better than Norris, Ferraro, and the ChTwins.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I'm hoping this is a getting kicked upstairs "promotion" for Burke and he won't have any real influence on hockey decisions. It certainly sounds like that's the case but we'll never get confirmation on something like that.

Very pleased with this move. Frankly it's at least five years overdue. No single person has kneecapped this organization's ability to win a Stanley Cup more than Tim Burke. Setoguchi over Kopitar, Wishart over Giroux, Petrecki over literally anyone else, trading a second round pick to move up TWO SPOTS to pick Mirco ****ing Mueller, passing on Robby Fabbri and the cherry on top of the sundae - Timo Meier over a franchise center in Mathew Barzal. The Pavelski pick doesn't even excuse the embarrassment that is turning two first round picks in the greatest draft of all time into Milan Michalek and Steve Bernier, let alone the repeated disasters of the 15 years afterward.

Burke is a spectacular moron and the Sharks are infinitely better off for having someone like DWJR who seems to at least have a basic understanding of what factors predict NHL success in prospects. Hope he overhauls the scouting staff itself as well.

What utter garbage. Of course, Burke has had his hiccups. But he has also made some great picks. Not just Joe Pavelski, but Hannan, Cheechoo, Murray, Ehrhoff, Clowe, Vlasic, Samuelsson, Braun, Couture, Bonino, Demers, Coyle, Hertl, Tierney, Labanc, Ryan, and more. Since the 2003 Draft, the Sharks are #1 in games played among their drafted players. In numerous rankings and analysis, the Sharks are often top-3 and at least top-5. The Sharks's mid- and late-round drafting is probably top-2 in the league over the last two decades.

He's done all of that on a team that frequently drafts late, if it does at all, with the way it trades draft picks. He's also done it, if some are to be believed, with a team who's development system has been thoroughly vitiated by a terrible AHL coach. Not to mention that post-Gund and pre-Plattner, the Sharks's scouting budget was amongst the last in the league.

 

[Patty Ice]

Very pleased with this move. Frankly it's at least five years overdue. No single person has kneecapped this organization's ability to win a Stanley Cup more than Tim Burke. Setoguchi over Kopitar, Wishart over Giroux, Petrecki over literally anyone else, trading a second round pick to move up TWO SPOTS to pick Mirco ****ing Mueller, passing on Robby Fabbri and the cherry on top of the sundae - Timo Meier over a franchise center in Mathew Barzal. The Pavelski pick doesn't even excuse the embarrassment that is turning two first round picks in the greatest draft of all time into Milan Michalek and Steve Bernier, let alone the repeated disasters of the 15 years afterward.

It's nice having 20/20 vision when looking back on draft. The era you speak of was my heyday of watching videos of and researching prospects and I have issue with a few of your complaints:

1) Michalek was not a bad pick at the time. Actually, he was the perfect pick for the Sharks at time (and at one point was considered a darkhorse to be first overall). His skillset was perfect for a guy like Marleau (who at the time was not the Marleau we remember). Knee injuries derailed his career but he still became a good NHLer. It was down to him and Suter at the time and both offered identical talent level in regard to their positions. It was just those damn knees...

2) I agree with Bernier...Parise was my guy but Bernier was not that far off that I was upset with the pick and at one point, he looked like a gamer but he still etched out a decent NHL career for himself.

3) Petrecki over anyone? Everyone drafted around him busted as well. You have to wait 15 picks before you find Subban. Petrecki was an awesome pick at the time, everything Sharks fans were clamoring for in a defenseman. He was another guy who was considered at one point a top 12 talent and was a nice surprise when the Sharks traded back into the first round especially after drafting Couture (who you failed to mentioned since he was an awesome pick).

4) You don't even mentioned Lukas Kaspar. Granted that was a shit draft year but I wanted Schneider and I'm still bitter.

Besides that, I agree...Burke has cost the Sharks an even better future with guys like Kaspar, Wishart, and Setoguchi. These guys were weaker prospects compared to those drafted after them and a big reason why I grew to dislike Burke. I don't like grouping Meier with those picks because he is really talented and worthy of where he was drafted. Yes, it rough that a couple of guys also worthy of that pick are tearing it up but thems the breaks of the draft. Timo is still a good player.

 

[Juxtaposer]

What utter garbage. Of course, Burke has had his hiccups. But he has also made some great picks. Not just Joe Pavelski, but Hannan, Cheechoo, Murray, Ehrhoff, Clowe, Vlasic, Samuelsson, Braun, Couture, Bonino, Demers, Coyle, Hertl, Tierney, Labanc, Ryan, and more. Since the 2003 Draft, the Sharks are #1 in games played among their drafted players. In numerous rankings and analysis, the Sharks are often top-3 and at least top-5. The Sharks's mid- and late-round drafting is probably top-2 in the league over the last two decades.

He's done all of that on a team that frequently drafts late, if it does at all, with the way it trades draft picks. He's also done it, if some are to be believed, with a team who's development system has been thoroughly vitiated by a terrible AHL coach. Not to mention that post-Gund and pre-Plattner, the Sharks's scouting budget was amongst the last in the league.

I don’t know how many times I have to tell you that games played is a terrible measurement of draft success because it rewards picking fourth liners and third pairing D the same as it does picking all-stars.

Who have the Sharks drafted in the mid-late rounds since, say, 2008, that’s actually an impact player? Maaaybe Labanc? Maaaaybe Ryan? It’s been literally a decade with nothing significant. The days of Burke picking Pavelskis and Clowes and Vlasics and Demers and Brauns and Murrays and Ehrhoffs and Cheechoos are over. Why? Because the NHL has changed. All those guys except Vlasic and maybe Ehrhoff (I don’t know what he was like as a draft prospect) have something in common: they were below-average to atrocious skaters when they were drafted. Braun is a good skater now but he made that change years after he was drafted. There’s a reason why there’s are so few players like Clowe, Murray, and Cheechoo having success in today’s NHL.

Bottom line: stop using picks made over a decade ago to defend Burke. He might have been a draft wizard back then, but he isn’t anymore.

Stop using games played as a measure of draft success. If you do, it means you’re saying that Tommy Wingels was just as successful a pick as TJ Brodie, Jake Gardiner, and Roman Josi, and that Josh Bailey was a more successful pick than Steven Stamkos and Erik Karlsson.

Since 2008, literally a decade ago, the Sharks have drafted Coyle, Nieto, Kuraly, DeMelo, Ryan, Tierney, Hertl, Labanc, and Meier who have become marginally successful NHLers. That’s four top-6 forwards if you count Labanc (two of them top-17 picks) and one maaaybe top-4 D in Ryan. The jury is still out on Balcers, Gambrell, etc., but that list is brutal. In the same span, even ignoring early first rounders, Tampa has drafted Vasilevsky, Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Point, Gudas, Paquette, Dotchin, Gusev, and Namestnikov. Anaheim has drafted Montour, Theodore, Kase, Rakell, Gibson, Manson, W. Karlsson, Andersen, Fowler, Smith-Pelly, Palmieri, and Vatanen. We haven’t even had a “Pavelski” type of mid-late round hit like St. Louis with Parayko, Ottawa with Mark Stone, Florida with Trocheck.

The Sharks have had a terrible last decade of drafting under Tim Burke and there is no two ways about it.

 

[WSS11]

I don’t know how many times I have to tell you that games played is a terrible measurement of draft success because it rewards picking fourth liners and third pairing D the same as it does picking all-stars.

Who have the Sharks drafted in the mid-late rounds since, say, 2008, that’s actually an impact player? Maaaybe Labanc? Maaaaybe Ryan? It’s been literally a decade with nothing significant. The days of Burke picking Pavelskis and Clowes and Vlasics and Demers and Brauns and Murrays and Ehrhoffs and Cheechoos are over. Why? Because the NHL has changed. All those guys except Vlasic and maybe Ehrhoff (I don’t know what he was like as a draft prospect) have something in common: they were below-average to atrocious skaters when they were drafted. Braun is a good skater now but he made that change years after he was drafted. There’s a reason why there’s are so few players like Clowe, Murray, and Cheechoo having success in today’s NHL.

Bottom line: stop using picks made over a decade ago to defend Burke. He might have been a draft wizard back then, but he isn’t anymore.

Stop using games played as a measure of draft success. If you do, it means you’re saying that Tommy Wingels was just as successful a pick as TJ Brodie, Jake Gardiner, and Roman Josi, and that Josh Bailey was a more successful pick than Steven Stamkos and Erik Karlsson.

Since 2008, literally a decade ago, the Sharks have drafted Coyle, Nieto, Kuraly, DeMelo, Ryan, Tierney, Hertl, Labanc, and Meier who have become marginally successful NHLers. That’s four top-6 forwards if you count Labanc (two of them top-17 picks) and one maaaybe top-4 D in Ryan. The jury is still out on Balcers, Gambrell, etc., but that list is brutal. In the same span, even ignoring early first rounders, Tampa has drafted Vasilevsky, Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Point, Gudas, Paquette, Dotchin, Gusev, and Namestnikov. Anaheim has drafted Montour, Theodore, Kase, Rakell, Gibson, Manson, W. Karlsson, Andersen, Fowler, Smith-Pelly, Palmieri, and Vatanen. We haven’t even had a “Pavelski” type of mid-late round hit like St. Louis with Parayko, Ottawa with Mark Stone, Florida with Trocheck.

The Sharks have had a terrible last decade of drafting under Tim Burke and there is no two ways about it.

Agree with all of this. I’m hoping that the drafting of Merkley is a sign of things to come. Enough with the safe picks. I love Meier but we were all wanting Rantanen and Barzal. If we draft Barzal, missing on JT doesn’t sting as bad. Just one of many examples. Elite talent wins cups, not safe picks

 

[KarlssonsGroin]

is this the "fired without really being fired" move.

DWjr might not be the best option, but i feel as though DWsr will be better able to influence draft selections without pushback from burke. we might see more Merkleys now

 

[Maladroit]

What utter garbage. Of course, Burke has had his hiccups. But he has also made some great picks. Not just Joe Pavelski, but Hannan, Cheechoo, Murray, Ehrhoff, Clowe, Vlasic, Samuelsson, Braun, Couture, Bonino, Demers, Coyle, Hertl, Tierney, Labanc, Ryan, and more. Since the 2003 Draft, the Sharks are #1 in games played among their drafted players. In numerous rankings and analysis, the Sharks are often top-3 and at least top-5. The Sharks's mid- and late-round drafting is probably top-2 in the league over the last two decades.

He's done all of that on a team that frequently drafts late, if it does at all, with the way it trades draft picks. He's also done it, if some are to be believed, with a team who's development system has been thoroughly vitiated by a terrible AHL coach. Not to mention that post-Gund and pre-Plattner, the Sharks's scouting budget was amongst the last in the league.

Games played is an extremely narrow lens through which to view draft success and conveniently ignores the Sharks' biggest drafting issue under Burke: a complete inability to find high-end talent. Of the players you mentioned how many are legitimately difficult to replace via free agency or the waiver wire? Pavelski, Ehrhoff, Vlasic, Couture, Coyle and Hertl are really the only ones. Pavelski and Ehrhoff were over fifteen years ago and Couture was a top-ten pick. Burke's record over the past 15 drafts is abysmal. The only impact players he's managed to find in that time are Vlasic, Couture, Hertl, Labanc and Meier. Five guys out of 100+ picks. Yes the Sharks didn't have first rounders many of those years and yes even when they do they're in the 20s but that's not good enough especially when he passed on so many obvious future stars.

Sommer is a scapegoat for a decade-plus of horrendous drafting by Burke and his scouting staff. He might not be a perfect coach but no one can honestly name a single prospect he's "ruined" in the AHL because there isn't one. For the last 15 years fans have had inflated expectations for terrible prospects that inevitably crash and burn at the AHL level. Budget is not an excuse. A computer program purely looking at junior stats would have done better than Burke over the past 20 years. Sure maybe it would miss out on Pavelski but it would have told them to draft Giroux and Barzal. I'll take that tradeoff every day of the week.

The draft isn't about accruing NHL players, it's about finding stars. You can sign a Matt Nieto or a Chris Tierney every offseason for cheap. Drafting players like that is not an accomplishment even if they do go on to play 250+ NHL games. It's better than picking an outright bust, sure, but it's still a failure given the draft's true purpose.

It's nice having 20/20 vision when looking back on draft. The era you speak of was my heyday of watching videos of and researching prospects and I have issue with a few of your complaints:

1) Michalek was not a bad pick at the time. Actually, he was the perfect pick for the Sharks at time (and at one point was considered a darkhorse to be first overall). His skillset was perfect for a guy like Marleau (who at the time was not the Marleau we remember). Knee injuries derailed his career but he still became a good NHLer. It was down to him and Suter at the time and both offered identical talent level in regard to their positions. It was just those damn knees...

2) I agree with Bernier...Parise was my guy but Bernier was not that far off that I was upset with the pick and at one point, he looked like a gamer but he still etched out a decent NHL career for himself.

3) Petrecki over anyone? Everyone drafted around him busted as well. You have to wait 15 picks before you find Subban. Petrecki was an awesome pick at the time, everything Sharks fans were clamoring for in a defenseman. He was another guy who was considered at one point a top 12 talent and was a nice surprise when the Sharks traded back into the first round especially after drafting Couture (who you failed to mentioned since he was an awesome pick).

4) You don't even mentioned Lukas Kaspar. Granted that was a **** draft year but I wanted Schneider and I'm still bitter.

Besides that, I agree...Burke has cost the Sharks an even better future with guys like Kaspar, Wishart, and Setoguchi. These guys were weaker prospects compared to those drafted after them and a big reason why I grew to dislike Burke. I don't like grouping Meier with those picks because he is really talented and worthy of where he was drafted. Yes, it rough that a couple of guys also worthy of that pick are tearing it up but thems the breaks of the draft. Timo is still a good player.

It's not hindsight, almost all of these picks were obviously bad at the time. I don't fault Burke or the scouting staff for picks like Goldobin or even Kaspar who haven't panned out but looked like the best player available at the time (the mistake in 2014 was trading down from 20 when Fabbri was still on the board). Michalek and Bernier weren't the worst picks of all time or even close but to pass on Zach Parise, who had just lit college hockey on fire, twice is inexcusable. Petrecki was a big immobile defensemen who couldn't score. Those picks almost never pan out.

Of course I'm gonna group Meier with those other disasters because, given the opportunity cost of selecting him and the fact it was the Sharks' lone earned top ten pick of the last 15 years, Meier is one of Burke's worst picks of all. He's a decent second liner who we passed on two excellent first line forwards in Rantanen and Connor and a franchise center in Mathew Barzal to select. I don't know how anyone can look at the season Barzal just had, his overall skillset and honestly just how fun that kid is to watch and not get angry at Burke when it was extremely obvious at the time of the draft that Barzal was a top ten talent and Meier was not. We would be a Cup favorite this year with Barzal, Couture and Thornton down the middle.

 

[LadyStanley]

DW is very protective of Burke. I emailed when NHL had opening on director of central scouting after death of predecessor and he replied almost immediately and vehemently that Burke would not be leaving org.

McKeon reports that Joe Will is still AGM as well.

How will duties between the two AGMs be split? Will DW hand some of his duties over?

Sounds like Will will still be taking care of the Barracuda.

 

[Alaskanice]

This site has morphed into something I no longer enjoy.
I find myself wondering why some of you even take the time to follow this team. There is so much derision. So much contempt. Downing people because your opinion can be supported by some numbers or hindsight then stating it as fact is depressing to me.
Discussing a sports team shouldn’t make strangers angry at each other. I’ve become upset when some of you have labeled me as a “blind fan.” That shouldn’t happen. I am a fan. I cheer and support my team.
This doesn’t make me “right” but in saying so, I am not out to make myself better or more informed. I am certain no one here truly knows more than the management, the coaches, the scouts and the players but that doesn’t stop some of you from standing atop the mountain and shouting that your thoughts are more than that.
I don’t want to stop coming to this site but I never feel good once I sign off. I can’t discuss Josh Norris because I’ll be buried under how terrible he is and how stupid the scouts are for picking him. Especially from those who have never watched him play.
I just don’t understand it.

 

[do0glas]

The barzal thing has been beat to death.

Tbf watching meier, i see game breaking upside. But at best he has one or two 35+goal seasons and tops out at 70 points. He will never be ppg.

So itll always sting a bit.

 

[Led Zappa]

What utter garbage. Of course, Burke has had his hiccups. But he has also made some great picks. Not just Joe Pavelski, but Hannan, Cheechoo, Murray, Ehrhoff, Clowe, Vlasic, Samuelsson, Braun, Couture, Bonino, Demers, Coyle, Hertl, Tierney, Labanc, Ryan, and more. Since the 2003 Draft, the Sharks are #1 in games played among their drafted players. In numerous rankings and analysis, the Sharks are often top-3 and at least top-5. The Sharks's mid- and late-round drafting is probably top-2 in the league over the last two decades.

He's done all of that on a team that frequently drafts late, if it does at all, with the way it trades draft picks. He's also done it, if some are to be believed, with a team who's development system has been thoroughly vitiated by a terrible AHL coach. Not to mention that post-Gund and pre-Plattner, the Sharks's scouting budget was amongst the last in the league.

Thanks for not making me type this out again.

I don’t know how many times I have to tell you that games played is a terrible measurement of draft success because it rewards picking fourth liners and third pairing D the same as it does picking all-stars.

Who have the Sharks drafted in the mid-late rounds since, say, 2008, that’s actually an impact player? Maaaybe Labanc? Maaaaybe Ryan? It’s been literally a decade with nothing significant. The days of Burke picking Pavelskis and Clowes and Vlasics and Demers and Brauns and Murrays and Ehrhoffs and Cheechoos are over. Why? Because the NHL has changed. All those guys except Vlasic and maybe Ehrhoff (I don’t know what he was like as a draft prospect) have something in common: they were below-average to atrocious skaters when they were drafted. Braun is a good skater now but he made that change years after he was drafted. There’s a reason why there’s are so few players like Clowe, Murray, and Cheechoo having success in today’s NHL.

Bottom line: stop using picks made over a decade ago to defend Burke. He might have been a draft wizard back then, but he isn’t anymore.

Stop using games played as a measure of draft success. If you do, it means you’re saying that Tommy Wingels was just as successful a pick as TJ Brodie, Jake Gardiner, and Roman Josi, and that Josh Bailey was a more successful pick than Steven Stamkos and Erik Karlsson.

Since 2008, literally a decade ago, the Sharks have drafted Coyle, Nieto, Kuraly, DeMelo, Ryan, Tierney, Hertl, Labanc, and Meier who have become marginally successful NHLers. That’s four top-6 forwards if you count Labanc (two of them top-17 picks) and one maaaybe top-4 D in Ryan. The jury is still out on Balcers, Gambrell, etc., but that list is brutal. In the same span, even ignoring early first rounders, Tampa has drafted Vasilevsky, Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Point, Gudas, Paquette, Dotchin, Gusev, and Namestnikov. Anaheim has drafted Montour, Theodore, Kase, Rakell, Gibson, Manson, W. Karlsson, Andersen, Fowler, Smith-Pelly, Palmieri, and Vatanen. We haven’t even had a “Pavelski” type of mid-late round hit like St. Louis with Parayko, Ottawa with Mark Stone, Florida with Trocheck.

The Sharks have had a terrible last decade of drafting under Tim Burke and there is no two ways about it.

A Decade. Oooooooo, sounds ominous. Of course later round picks usually don't make the NHL for 3 to 4 years and 2008 is perfect for your cutoff, since it excludes Demers and Wingels.

Picking after the 2nd round is a complete crap shoot. If it wasn't, those picks you're giving credit to other teams head of drafting would have picked those players in earlier rounds. Especially with today's analytics. And what have those teams done outside of Tampa. Personally, I've never given Burke credit for Pavelski.

Here's Tampa's results, since you just rattled off a bunch of names to make it seem impressive.

Tampa Vasilevsky 19th (Hertl 17th), Johnson undrafted (Donskoi), Palat (Meh), Kucherov (The one thing the Sharks haven't done lately), Point (Another score), Gudas ?, Paquette (Not sure why this guys on here), Dotchin (Never heard of him, I assume he's a very good Defensive D since you put him on the list), Gusev (Has never even been to NHL), Namestnikov (Not sure where this guy lands, seems to stumble, then traded and crapped out so far for the Rangers.)

So, let's give them Kucherov and Point, maybe Dotchin.

So, while not as impressive as you tried to make it seem, another team has ended up with some higher end draft picks than the Sharks. And they are the only team on your list to make any waves with those draft picks. It still doesn't prove that Burke sucks.

It does matter that the Sharks are #1 in games played. Especially with all the #1 draft picks we've traded away for players like Burns, Kane and Jones. Those possible draft picks can't contribute to the games played, which makes it even more impressive. Those players with games played have also helped us acquire some good talent.

Anyway, I'm glad all you Burke haters have someone else to complain about. I'm sure the complaining will hit even higher marks with every pick you don't like, since he's DW's son and all.

Can't wait

 

[Maladroit]

Burke gets dropkicked out of the scouting department for blowing four first round picks in a row and people are still here defending him. Incredible.

 

[Helistin]

Burke gets dropkicked out of the scouting department for blowing four first round picks in a row and people are still here defending him. Incredible.

Only incredible thing is that some people think that late first rounders to land a star every time. Burke has made some bad picks in the first round for sure , but it's quite different to draft in the 20's than in the top 5.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Only incredible thing is that some people think that late first rounders to land a star every time. Burke has made some bad picks in the first round for sure , but it's quite different to draft in the 20's than in the top 5.

Burke had a 9th overall pick and passed on a superstar for a safe hard working young man with character

 

[Helistin]

Burke had a 9th overall pick and passed on a superstar for a safe hard working young man with character

Yes. So did many other teams.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Yes. So did many other teams.

Yeah and I wouldn't want those people making decisions for the Sharks either. What others do in the draft doesn't make it ok that we passed on him for "Burke" type pick in Meier that a lot of people felt was a reach for 9th overall