Thoughts on the rebuild?

[BondraTime]

You can go with the mindset that there was massive offers and they took the worst one because because Melnyk.

That's not what I'm saying whatsoever, but good to see you're following

 

[Hale The Villain]

The conditional 1st in the Duchene deal shouldn't have been all-or-nothing. It should have been CBJ's 1st if he re-signs, their 2nd if he doesn't. Should have also been another asset included, as Duchene was always a longshot to re-sign in Columbus.

Abramov, Davidsson and a mid-late 1st is a horrible return for a center who had well over a PPG when we traded him.

I think it's a slightly better deal than NYR got for Hayes, as Abramov has higher upside than Lemieux, but we should have gotten far more than they did.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The conditional 1st in the Duchene deal shouldn't have been all-or-nothing. It should have been CBJ's 1st if he re-signs, their 2nd if he doesn't. Should have also been another asset included, as Duchene was always a longshot to re-sign in Columbus.

Abramov, Davidsson and a mid-late 1st is a horrible return for a center who had well over a PPG when we traded him.

I think it's a slightly better deal than NYR got for Hayes, as Abramov has higher upside than Lemieux, but we should have gotten far more than they did.

I'd rather have Lemieuz than Abramov. Abramov has more offensive upside but I like Lemieux's chances of becoming a regular NHLer more. Pretty sure if you aske the Blues or the Bruins if they needed a callup to play the rest of the SC final .. they'd both take Lemieux over Abramov.

 

[Peptic Balcers]

I'd rather have Lemieuz than Abramov. Abramov has more offensive upside but I like Lemieux's chances of becoming a regular NHLer more. Pretty sure if you aske the Blues or the Bruins if they needed a callup to play the rest of the SC final .. they'd both take Lemieux over Abramov.

Be that as it may, as a team that doesn’t plan to be competitive at the time of the trade or the following year, wouldn’t you rather take a swing at the guy with the higher upside?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Be that as it may, as a team that doesn’t plan to be competitive at the time of the trade or the following year, wouldn’t you rather take a swing at the guy with the higher upside?

Not I. I like Lemieux and think he would be a valuable addition. If that upside was higher perhaps. I don't see Abramov reaching a top 6 NHL spot so I'd rather have Lemieux in the bottom 6 than Abramov any day. I could be proved wrong but that is how I feel now.

 

[Sens]

Lemieux Has untapped offensive potential and he’s a very good pest...players like him are rare if he reaches his 40-45 point upside

The majority of players don’t have much sandpaper any more, so the ones that can play up the lineup have great value

 

[tstracuzza]

Not I. I like Lemieux and think he would be a valuable addition. If that upside was higher perhaps. I don't see Abramov reaching a top 6 NHL spot so I'd rather have Lemieux in the bottom 6 than Abramov any day. I could be proved wrong but that is how I feel now.

Abramov won’t make the NHL and Lemieux is already a contributor with Brendan Gallagher type potential... we got fleeced unless duchene resigns there

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Abramov won’t make the NHL and Lemieux is already a contributor with Brendan Gallagher type potential... we got fleeced unless duchene resigns there

I would imagine the Sens could have had that deal out of Winnipeg, but Dorion probably wanted more (like that conditional 1st) which the Jets were reluctant to give. It will likely end up being vapor anyway. There is still a chance Duchene stays there but imo he will test free agency to see if he can find a better situation. He says it will be a hockey decision. We shall see. Dorion is more aggressive on the give than the take when it comes to trades.

 

[tstracuzza]

I would imagine the Sens could have had that deal out of Winnipeg, but Dorion probably wanted more (like that conditional 1st) which the Jets were reluctant to give. It will likely end up being vapor anyway. There is still a chance Duchene stays there but imo he will test free agency to see if he can find a better situation. He says it will be a hockey decision. We shall see. Dorion is more aggressive on the give than the take when it comes to trades.

I agree.. I did like the return he got for dzingle I’ll give him that

I wish the stone deal was the one with the extra conditional 1st

Nice username my team name was karlssons of anarchy when I had him a couple years ago haha

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I agree.. I did like the return he got for dzingle I’ll give him that

I wish the stone deal was the one with the extra conditional 1st

Nice username my team name was karlssons of anarchy when I had him a couple years ago haha

Stone return was definitely not enough especially considering it was effectively with an extension built in.

 

[Peptic Balcers]

Not I. I like Lemieux and think he would be a valuable addition. If that upside was higher perhaps. I don't see Abramov reaching a top 6 NHL spot so I'd rather have Lemieux in the bottom 6 than Abramov any day. I could be proved wrong but that is how I feel now.

That’s fair, from my viewings of Abramov I like his game. Shifty, great hands, high compete level, good forechecker and produced at a crazy pace in junior. Mind you, my viewings of Lemieux are limited. But I’ve got time for a guy like Abramov. I still see him being useful if he doesn’t make it as a top 6F. Excited to see what he can do with some more ice time next year

 

[Icelevel]

Yeah I like abramov too. Have to wait and see on him. He could end up very useful. Smart, quick, aggressive, skilled. Don’t know much about Davidson yet.
The trade could end up ok.
The painting himself in the corner repeatedly is the problem with Dorion.
But somehow the rebuild is still looking pretty good to me. A great foundation could already be in place.

 

[NorthCoast]

Yeah I like abramov too. Have to wait and see on him. He could end up very useful. Smart, quick, aggressive, skilled. Don’t know much about Davidson yet.
The trade could end up ok.
The painting himself in the corner repeatedly is the problem with Dorion.
But somehow the rebuild is still looking pretty good to me. A great foundation could already be in place.

Totally agree and it's what scares me about the rebuild.

Last team was blown up because of "lack of chemistry" and/or didn't fit with system. (Assuming it wasn't $$$)

So let's take a look at this foundation and how we got them. Were they acquired from a position of strength where we targeted specific players that would fit our system, team culture, etc...strategy going forward? Or were they acquired because we had to get rid of a player and they were the BPA in return. It's not that I don't want to get value out of trades...but you fear that if all that is driving a trade is getting value...how can you assume that all these individual valuable assets will gel together as a team and all fit the same on ice strategy (speed, possession, physical, defensive, offensive, whatever).

And speaking of on ice strategy...all of the players we have in our foundation were acquired prior to us picking a coach. And was this coach chosen because he has the same philosophy for on-ice strategy as Dorion does? Or was he again just BPA? Looking at the variety of play styles amongst the coaches considered, makes you wonder.

 

[BatherSeason]

Any update on the hiring of a POHO?? I hear this person could be essential to a proper rebuild?

 

[aragorn]

It's obviously still very early in the process & we will have a better idea after this upcoming draft but so far they do have a number of good prospects in the fold for a decent rebuild.

I see the future centre position as Brown (top line), White (2nd line), Chlapik or Tierny (3rd line) & maybe Paul as the potential 4th line centre. One of Chlapik or Tierny could also end up as a 4th line centre but I would imagine they would keep both those guys in the top 9, if possible. Norris should also be in the mix for centre but I would also like to see them give him a shot at LW.

On LW they have Tkachuk & Formenton & if they move Norris to LW would have three very good players on the left side. With the exception of Batherson it's the right side that needs the most help & hopefully they can find an elite RWer or two in one of the next three drafts.

IMO the defence of the future is somewhat set with Chabot, Wolanin, Brannstrom, Jaros & maybe Ceci if they re-sign him. They also have some size, PK & shutdown ability in Harpur, Jaros & Englund should they need it & if they draft Seider, he could be another guy who could play the shutdown D role.

They also have a few goalies that should compete for the #1 job when Anderson is done & they might be able to draft one if they feel that goalie would have more potential than the goalies they already have in their system.

IMO the rebuild seems to be going very well & they have numerous players/prospects they could move to upgrade a certain spot & they have numerous draft picks over the course of the next three drafts to add more skilled players to the mix.

 

[DaveMatthew]

It's obviously still very early in the process & we will have a better idea after this upcoming draft but so far they do have a number of good prospects in the fold for a decent rebuild.

I see the future centre position as Brown (top line), White (2nd line), Chlapik or Tierny (3rd line) & maybe Paul as the potential 4th line centre. One of Chlapik or Tierny could also end up as a 4th line centre but I would imagine they would keep both those guys in the top 9, if possible. Norris should also be in the mix for centre but I would also like to see them give him a shot at LW.

On LW they have Tkachuk & Formenton & if they move Norris to LW would have three very good players on the left side. With the exception of Batherson it's the right side that needs the most help & hopefully they can find an elite RWer or two in one of the next three drafts.

IMO the defence of the future is somewhat set with Chabot, Wolanin, Brannstrom, Jaros & maybe Ceci if they re-sign him. They also have some size, PK & shutdown ability in Harpur, Jaros & Englund should they need it & if they draft Seider, he could be another guy who could play the shutdown D role.

They also have a few goalies that should compete for the #1 job when Anderson is done & they might be able to draft one if they feel that goalie would have more potential than the goalies they already have in their system.

IMO the rebuild seems to be going very well & they have numerous players/prospects they could move to upgrade a certain spot & they have numerous draft picks over the course of the next three drafts to add more skilled players to the mix.

Here's the issue, in your prediction, you need all of our good prospects to develop as projected and reach their full potential. That almost never happens. We need a lot more quality and quantity in our prospect pool, so the next 3 drafts are critical, and that's why it's so important to get a top 4 selection next year.

You listed Brown, Batherson, Chlapik, Norris, Brannstrom, Wolanin, Formenton, Harpur and Englund as the prospects you think will be on the roster long-term (I exluded Tierney, White, Jaros and Tkachuk as they're already on the team).

That's 9 guys. If you look at what typically happens with prospects, you can realistically expect 3 of those guys to become the NHL players you expect. The other 6 won't.

Let's assume Brown, Brannstrom and Batherson are the guys that "make it". Add them to Chabot, Tkachuk and White, and you still don't have a contending team. You need more.

The things we're saying about Wolanin, Formenton, Chlapik, etc, are the same things we've said about the likes of Lee, Cowen, Wiercioch, Noesen, Puempel, Prince, Petersson, Daugavins, Zubov, Nikulin, etc.

More often then not, they don't make it.

The way I look at it is that right now, we have a Rielly (Chabot) and Nylander (Tkachuk). Or if you want to be more optimistic, we have a Rielly (Chabot) and Marner (Tkachuk). Plus a bunch of guys who might become Kapanen or Johnsson. We still need a Matthews.

 

[stempniaksen]

Here's the issue, in your prediction, you need all of our good prospects to develop as projected and reach their full potential. That almost never happens. We need a lot more quality and quantity in our prospect pool, so the next 3 drafts are critical, and that's why it's so important to get a top 4 selection next year.

You listed Brown, Batherson, Chlapik, Norris, Brannstrom, Wolanin, Formenton, Harpur and Englund as the prospects you think will be on the roster long-term (I exluded Tierney, White, Jaros and Tkachuk as they're already on the team).

That's 9 guys. If you look at what typically happens with prospects, you can realistically expect 3 of those guys to become the NHL players you expect. The other 6 won't.

Let's assume Brown, Brannstrom and Batherson are the guys that "make it". Add them to Chabot, Tkachuk and White, and you still don't have a contending team. You need more.

The things we're saying about Wolanin, Formenton, Chlapik, etc, are the same things we've said about the likes of Lee, Cowen, Wiercioch, Noesen, Puempel, Prince, Petersson, Daugavins, Zubov, Nikulin, etc.

More often then not, they don't make it.

The way I look at it is that right now, we have a Rielly (Chabot) and Nylander (Tkachuk). Or if you want to be more optimistic, we have a Rielly (Chabot) and Marner (Tkachuk). Plus a bunch of guys who might become Kapanen or Johnsson. We still need a Matthews.

You said this more succinctly than I could.

Until we see what happens with the Sens 2020 1st (or the 2020 draft in general with all those extra pick to play with) we're still missing one or two high end pieces and clarity on prospects in key positions (Brown, JBD, Gustavsson/Daccord in paricular, imo).

 

[Spartachat]

It's obviously still very early in the process & we will have a better idea after this upcoming draft but so far they do have a number of good prospects in the fold for a decent rebuild.

I see the future centre position as Brown (top line), White (2nd line), Chlapik or Tierny (3rd line) & maybe Paul as the potential 4th line centre. One of Chlapik or Tierny could also end up as a 4th line centre but I would imagine they would keep both those guys in the top 9, if possible. Norris should also be in the mix for centre but I would also like to see them give him a shot at LW.

On LW they have Tkachuk & Formenton & if they move Norris to LW would have three very good players on the left side. With the exception of Batherson it's the right side that needs the most help & hopefully they can find an elite RWer or two in one of the next three drafts.

IMO the defence of the future is somewhat set with Chabot, Wolanin, Brannstrom, Jaros & maybe Ceci if they re-sign him. They also have some size, PK & shutdown ability in Harpur, Jaros & Englund should they need it & if they draft Seider, he could be another guy who could play the shutdown D role.

They also have a few goalies that should compete for the #1 job when Anderson is done & they might be able to draft one if they feel that goalie would have more potential than the goalies they already have in their system.

IMO the rebuild seems to be going very well & they have numerous players/prospects they could move to upgrade a certain spot & they have numerous draft picks over the course of the next three drafts to add more skilled players to the mix.

Brown and White vs Tavares and Matthews or Stamkos and Point at centre is pretty darn weak.

 

[aragorn]

Brown and White vs Tavares and Matthews or Stamkos and Point at centre is pretty darn weak.

Give them time. Brown isn't even in the NHL yet & White had a pretty good rookie yr last yr. And hopefully they have a good supporting cast to play with given Ottawa's prospect pool & all of the draft choices they have over the course of the next three drafts.

 

[stempniaksen]

Brown and White vs Tavares and Matthews or Stamkos and Point at centre is pretty darn weak.

Add Barkov/Trochek to the list of teams within the division that blow the Sens duo out of the water.

 

[JD1]

Brown and White vs Tavares and Matthews or Stamkos and Point at centre is pretty darn weak.

maybe. maybe not. what will it look like in 2 to 3 years is the question. Stammer and JT on big deals with declining numbers.

I also look at these things and think you have to be better somewhere else. No one "out centred" Crosby Malkin yet Pittsburgh "only" won 3 cups.

 

[Micklebot]

I think we have a pretty solid foundation with Chabot, Brannstrom, Tkachuk, White all 22 and under.

Brown and Batherson look promising at top 6 guys, that brings us to 4 top 6 guys, with Wolanin and Jaros as young guys to round out the dmen

We have lots of pieces like Pageau, DeMelo, Veronneau, Abramov, Balcers, Davidsson ect plus 11 picks in the top two rounds over the next 3 drafts, one of which (our 1st next year) should be a sure thing impact player, I think we should be able to put together a decent roster in 3 years from now.

If a guy like Brown or Batherson becomes our next Stone, that will be the difference imo.

It all relies on us being able and willing to re-sign our guys, and prospects and young players meeting or exceeding reasonable expectations, which doesn't always happen.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I think we have a pretty solid foundation with Chabot, Brannstrom, Tkachuk, White all 22 and under.

Brown and Batherson look promising at top 6 guys, that brings us to 4 top 6 guys, with Wolanin and Jaros as young guys to round out the dmen

We have lots of pieces like Pageau, DeMelo, Veronneau, Abramov, Balcers, Davidsson ect plus 11 picks in the top two rounds over the next 3 drafts, one of which (our 1st next year) should be a sure thing impact player, I think we should be able to put together a decent roster in 3 years from now.

If a guy like Brown or Batherson becomes our next Stone, that will be the difference imo.

It all relies on us being able and willing to re-sign our guys, and prospects and young players meeting or exceeding reasonable expectations, which doesn't always happen.

We have loads of prospects who should be NHLers.

The problem is, we only have 1 real superstar to franchise tier type player in Chabot. Nobody else save for the most optimistic projections of Batherson projects that way.

Tkachuk, Brown, Brannstrom, maybe White are all possible or already top 6 F/top 4 D. But they don't project as superstars. Tkachuk will bring loads of value off the ice in being one of the few young leaders who can probably shoulder the burden of this team and excel, but that's a different side of things.

The other problem is that if we won't spend, it'll be difficult to build on this prospect pool because we will have to lose guys earlier via bridging out their RFA years and taking them to free agency, or liquidating players when we run out of salary space.

 

[Masked]

We have loads of prospects who should be NHLers.

The problem is, we only have 1 real superstar to franchise tier type player in Chabot. Nobody else save for the most optimistic projections of Batherson projects that way.

Tkachuk, Brown, Brannstrom, maybe White are all possible or already top 6 F/top 4 D. But they don't project as superstars. Tkachuk will bring loads of value off the ice in being one of the few young leaders who can probably shoulder the burden of this team and excel, but that's a different side of things.

How many superstars on Boston or St Louis? The closest on those teams are guys that were never considered potential superstars in their early 20's except for Tarasenko.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

How many superstars on Boston or St Louis? The closest on those teams are guys that were never considered potential superstars in their early 20's except for Tarasenko.

Marchand+Bergeron+Rask when he is on like he is now

O'Reilly (super underrated, maybe not anymore)+Tarasenko+Pietrangelo




Yes, it's possible someone could come out of nowhere like Karlsson did or Tarasenko did and become a superstar. I'm just pointing out, as of now, Chabot is our only one.