Value of: This Leafs Package

[slimbob8]

Sandin and kapanen are big and valuable pieces. But just because Toronto overpaid for Barrie doesnt mean another team will offer a 1st+ decent prospect for one dimensional UFA barrie.

I suggest you look up past trade deadlines then and bring yourself up to speed on what teams pay for one dimensional d-man like Barrie. You won't have to look hard to find examples. I've already listed two here and they both returned more than that.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

You will not get a #1 Dman for that

Sandin being ED exempt helps. Sandin is not projectedas atop 2 Dman.

You can get a strong 2nd pair Dman

The point still stands that historically a pkg like this is as much or more than most actual trades for established #1D
1. John Carlson, WSH (SAME)
2. Roman Josi, NSH (SAME)
3. Alex Pietrangelo, STL* (SAME)
4. Cale Makar, COL (SAME)
5. Victor Hedman, TBL (SAME)
6. Kris Letang, PIT (SAME)
7. Shea Weber, MTL (INJ.)
8. Tyson Barrie, TOR* (+1)
9. Quinn Hughes, VAN (+1)
10. Torey Krug, BOS* (+3)
11. Zach Werenski, CBJ (SAME)
12. Keith Yandle, FLA (SAME)
13. Shea Theodore, VGK (+3)
14. Rasmus Dahlin, BUF (DTD)
15. Mark Giordano, CGY (+4)
16. Ryan Ellis, NSH (NEW - INJ.)
17. John Klingberg, DAL (-2)
18. Neal Pionk, WPG (SAME)
19. Seth Jones, CBJ (+1)
20. Jeff Petry, MTL (+1)
21. Brent Burns, SJS (-14)
22. Erik Karlsson, SJS (-8)
23. Oscar Klefbom, EDM (+10)
24. Erik Gustafsson, CHI* (+10)
25. Tony DeAngelo, NYR** (SAME)
26. Jacob Trouba, NYR (-4)
27. Mattias Ekholm, NSH (-1)
28. Jaccob Slavin, CAR (+2)
29. Thomas Chabot, OTT (SAME)
30. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, ARI (DTD)
31. Ivan Provorov, PHI (-8)
32. Ryan Suter, MIN (-5)
33. Mikhail Sergachev, TBL** (-2)
34. Miro Heiskanen, DAL (-2)
35. Ryan Graves, COL (+7)
36. Adam Fox, NYR (SAME)
37. Aaron Ekblad, FLA (+2)
38. Alexander Edler, VAN (-10)
39. Rasmus Ristolainen, BUF (-2)
40. Jake Muzzin, TOR* (-2)
41. Mike Matheson, FLA (+3)
42. Drew Doughty, LAK (+1)
43. Jared Spurgeon, MIN (+2)
44. Samuel Girard, COL (-9)
45. Rasmus Sandin, TOR (-5)
46. Darnell Nurse, EDM** (+1)
47. Kevin Shattenkirk, TBL* (-1)
48. Nikita Zadorov, COL** (NEW)
49. Damon Severson, NJD (NEW)
50. Matt Niskanen, PHI (NEW)

I grabbed the NHL top 50 fantasy list for a quick reference and IMO there 10 D on the list I trade that pkg for

 

[Ctrain2k]

So show me an example of a package this valuable being traded then? I've given comparables, not perfect, but still comparables. I doubt you'll find any comparables in the other direction any time recently.

We know Barrie's worth because there's plenty of comparables (Shattenkirk, Yandle, etc.). He would return a 1st plus a decent prospect at the very minimum. Sandin is a top 10 prospect in the entire league; Button had him 6th. So he's obviously worth a 1st+ at a minimum. Kappy is a young, 20 goal scorer on a great contract capable of killing penalties. Many teams would give up a 1st+ for him without a doubt.

Add that all up and that's the biggest package you would see in a trade in quite some time. So it should be obvious why anything other than a star wouldn't move the needle here. People throwing out things like a good 2nd pairing d-man for that is delusional.

I didn’t say anything about their trade value other than they wouldn’t return an elite player with term. That’s also why we don’t see packages like this traded cause it wouldn’t make sense to trade them for anything other than an elite player with term.

 

[Cor]

Adam Larsson

 

[voxel]

flip Barrie to Edmonton for Gagner (Dump) + 1st + good prospect

Yeah... no. Oilers don't need Barrie (and nobody is paying that much for a UFA Barrie either).

Oilers need a LW (or RW) for McDavid. That package (1st + Broberg/Bouchar) nets a Rakell-type which is exactly what the Oilers need not a UFA offensive D-man.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

LA kings, quite easily among others.

They get Sandin + Kap then flip Barrie to Edmonton for Gagner (Dump) + 1st + good prospect


pretty sure habs would easily do it for weber. sharks would move eithe rone of burhns/karlsson, zona probably would move OEL for that haul


have you not seen Sandin play this year? he is probably the best D prospect not named Byram (2-4 pretty close with him, romanov and boqvist)

+ Barrie at 2.75 AND Kapanen locked up to a sweetheart 3.2 deal. thats a HUGE package

La would pass on this offer Its not even close to whats needed to get Drew

 

[TFHockey]

LA kings, quite easily among others.

They get Sandin + Kap then flip Barrie to Edmonton for Gagner (Dump) + 1st + good prospect


pretty sure habs would easily do it for weber. sharks would move eithe rone of burhns/karlsson, zona probably would move OEL for that haul


have you not seen Sandin play this year? he is probably the best D prospect not named Byram (2-4 pretty close with him, romanov and boqvist)

+ Barrie at 2.75 AND Kapanen locked up to a sweetheart 3.2 deal. thats a HUGE package

You are completely divorced from reality. You think Barrie commands that kind of return from Edmonton? Or anyone?

 

[garyturner3]

The point still stands that historically a pkg like this is as much or more than most actual trades for established #1D
1. John Carlson, WSH (SAME)
2. Roman Josi, NSH (SAME)
3. Alex Pietrangelo, STL* (SAME)
4. Cale Makar, COL (SAME)
5. Victor Hedman, TBL (SAME)
6. Kris Letang, PIT (SAME)
7. Shea Weber, MTL (INJ.)
8. Tyson Barrie, TOR* (+1)
9. Quinn Hughes, VAN (+1)
10. Torey Krug, BOS* (+3)
11. Zach Werenski, CBJ (SAME)
12. Keith Yandle, FLA (SAME)
13. Shea Theodore, VGK (+3)
14. Rasmus Dahlin, BUF (DTD)
15. Mark Giordano, CGY (+4)
16. Ryan Ellis, NSH (NEW - INJ.)
17. John Klingberg, DAL (-2)
18. Neal Pionk, WPG (SAME)
19. Seth Jones, CBJ (+1)
20. Jeff Petry, MTL (+1)
21. Brent Burns, SJS (-14)
22. Erik Karlsson, SJS (-8)
23. Oscar Klefbom, EDM (+10)
24. Erik Gustafsson, CHI* (+10)
25. Tony DeAngelo, NYR** (SAME)
26. Jacob Trouba, NYR (-4)
27. Mattias Ekholm, NSH (-1)
28. Jaccob Slavin, CAR (+2)
29. Thomas Chabot, OTT (SAME)
30. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, ARI (DTD)
31. Ivan Provorov, PHI (-8)
32. Ryan Suter, MIN (-5)
33. Mikhail Sergachev, TBL** (-2)
34. Miro Heiskanen, DAL (-2)
35. Ryan Graves, COL (+7)
36. Adam Fox, NYR (SAME)
37. Aaron Ekblad, FLA (+2)
38. Alexander Edler, VAN (-10)
39. Rasmus Ristolainen, BUF (-2)
40. Jake Muzzin, TOR* (-2)
41. Mike Matheson, FLA (+3)
42. Drew Doughty, LAK (+1)
43. Jared Spurgeon, MIN (+2)
44. Samuel Girard, COL (-9)
45. Rasmus Sandin, TOR (-5)
46. Darnell Nurse, EDM** (+1)
47. Kevin Shattenkirk, TBL* (-1)
48. Nikita Zadorov, COL** (NEW)
49. Damon Severson, NJD (NEW)
50. Matt Niskanen, PHI (NEW)

I grabbed the NHL top 50 fantasy list for a quick reference and IMO there 10 D on the list I trade that pkg for

Agreed. It’s would take an insanely good player (with term) to make giving up that package worth it.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

You are completely divorced from reality. You think Barrie commands that kind of return from Edmonton? Or anyone?

Yandle and Shattenkirk both returned a 1st+, both were considered defensive liabilities. Barrie is a puck moving defenseman and teams generally give up a lot for those

 

[garyturner3]

You are completely divorced from reality. You think Barrie commands that kind of return from Edmonton? Or anyone?

Did you really just say someone is divorced from reality for thinking Barrie would return a 1st plus a good prospect plus a cap dump? I’m afraid it’s you who’s out of touch with reality. Spend 30 seconds looking up past trades and it will be clear. Shattenkirk was mentioned here earlier. You couldn’t find a better recent comparable player to gauge Barrie’s value.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

the guy I want is Zadorov. Obv not for this pkg but as far as somewhat obtainable guys Zads is the 1 I want

 

[voxel]

Did you really just say someone is divorced from reality for thinking Barrie would return a 1st plus a good prospect plus a cap dump? I’m afraid it’s you who’s out of touch with reality. Spend 30 seconds looking up past trades and it will be clear. Shattenkirk was mentioned here earlier. You couldn’t find a better recent comparable player to gauge Barrie’s value.

Seriously... name the good prospect in those trades.

Kevin Shattenkirk Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Keith Yandle Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

A late 1st (#20-#27) for Barrie... sure... but good prospect... not seeing it.

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

Seriously... name the good prospect in those trades.

Kevin Shattenkirk Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Keith Yandle Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

A late 1st (#20-#27) for Barrie... sure... but good prospect... not seeing it.

I think the prospect is too offset the value of the cap dump but it makes no sense because the Leafs are up against the cap and aren't looking for futures

 

[TFHockey]

Yandle and Shattenkirk both returned a 1st+, both were considered defensive liabilities. Barrie is a puck moving defenseman and teams generally give up a lot for those

True.

Okay, I suppose you guys are right.. someone will overpay for a defenseman like Barrie at the TDL because there's always one GM always who makes that kind of mistake. Or maybe we are talking about a late 1st, like in the 27-31 range. Whatever it won't be Edmonton. At all. Holland won't add a pending UFA to the Oilers because while it is believed they are good enough to make the playoffs, they aren't good enough to go anywhere afterward.

Holland also made it clear he wouldn't deal a 1st for Taylor Hall. Why do you think he'd make that kind of trade for Barrie?

 

[Michael HOMERUNing]

True.

Okay, I suppose you guys are right.. someone will overpay for a defenseman like Barrie at the TDL because there's always one GM always who makes that kind of mistake. Or maybe we are talking about a late 1st, like in the 27-31 range. Whatever it won't be Edmonton. At all. Holland won't add a pending UFA to the Oilers because while it is believed they are good enough to make the playoffs, they aren't good enough to go anywhere afterward.

Holland also made it clear he wouldn't deal a 1st for Taylor Hall. Why do you think he'd make that kind of trade for Barrie?

I don't think it would be Edmonton. They aren't in a position to trade anything of value for rentals, especially a guy like Barrie who's looking at a big contract. And I don't think the Oilers pick is going to be in the 20s. The teams who would give up the first are teams higher up in the standings looking to make a big run

 

[voxel]

I think the prospect is too offset the value of the cap dump but it makes no sense because the Leafs are up against the cap and aren't looking for futures

First of all - the real dump is Brandon Manning. Gagner can fill in once in a while whereas Manning just get suspending for being racist and useless overall (thanks Chia).

Second, Oilers don't have roster space for another D. It's not a big need. When Russell is healthy we're sending Lagesson back down and if we trade for Barrie that means sending down Caleb Jones and he's been good.

The McDavid line without Neal and Kassian is a complete mess. He needs a winger. Screw adding another redundant D.

 

[Legion34]

I dont think there is a dman in this league that is a Sandin+Kapanen more valuable than Barrie.

I mean I’m as big a leaf fan who thinks the under valuing leaf players get is ridiculous. But....


You think Columbus would take that package for Jones? Dahlin? Heiskanen?

 

[KingsOfCali25]

LA kings, quite easily among others.

They get Sandin + Kap then flip Barrie to Edmonton for Gagner (Dump) + 1st + good prospect


pretty sure habs would easily do it for weber. sharks would move eithe rone of burhns/karlsson, zona probably would move OEL for that haul


have you not seen Sandin play this year? he is probably the best D prospect not named Byram (2-4 pretty close with him, romanov and boqvist)

+ Barrie at 2.75 AND Kapanen locked up to a sweetheart 3.2 deal. thats a HUGE package

Hell no LA wouldn't! You're out of your damn mind

 

[Liferleafer]

You will not get a #1 Dman for that

Sandin being ED exempt helps. Sandin is not projectedas atop 2 Dman.

You can get a strong 2nd pair Dman

Sandin himself will be a strong 2nd pair D man...so we're gonna add Kap and Barrie to him to get.....a strong 2nd pair D man?

Seems reasonable...

 

[Balthazar]

IMO there 10 D on the list I trade that pkg for

Name them.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Name them.

Carlson
Doughty
Makar
Jones
Hamilton
and A.P with extension
handedness aside Hedman, Hughes, Dahlin, Heiskanen and Slavin
outside of those guys and the obvious older guys that don't fit like Burns, E.K etc
So 10 guys and 1 with extension. Obv some or most are worth more but anyone I consider less valuable is not worth that pkg.

 

[captainpaxil]

The point still stands that historically a pkg like this is as much or more than most actual trades for established #1D
1. John Carlson, WSH (SAME)
2. Roman Josi, NSH (SAME)
3. Alex Pietrangelo, STL* (SAME)
4. Cale Makar, COL (SAME)
5. Victor Hedman, TBL (SAME)
6. Kris Letang, PIT (SAME)
7. Shea Weber, MTL (INJ.)
8. Tyson Barrie, TOR* (+1)
9. Quinn Hughes, VAN (+1)
10. Torey Krug, BOS* (+3)
11. Zach Werenski, CBJ (SAME)
12. Keith Yandle, FLA (SAME)
13. Shea Theodore, VGK (+3)
14. Rasmus Dahlin, BUF (DTD)
15. Mark Giordano, CGY (+4)
16. Ryan Ellis, NSH (NEW - INJ.)
17. John Klingberg, DAL (-2)
18. Neal Pionk, WPG (SAME)
19. Seth Jones, CBJ (+1)
20. Jeff Petry, MTL (+1)
21. Brent Burns, SJS (-14)
22. Erik Karlsson, SJS (-8)
23. Oscar Klefbom, EDM (+10)
24. Erik Gustafsson, CHI* (+10)
25. Tony DeAngelo, NYR** (SAME)
26. Jacob Trouba, NYR (-4)
27. Mattias Ekholm, NSH (-1)
28. Jaccob Slavin, CAR (+2)
29. Thomas Chabot, OTT (SAME)
30. Oliver Ekman-Larsson, ARI (DTD)
31. Ivan Provorov, PHI (-8)
32. Ryan Suter, MIN (-5)
33. Mikhail Sergachev, TBL** (-2)
34. Miro Heiskanen, DAL (-2)
35. Ryan Graves, COL (+7)
36. Adam Fox, NYR (SAME)
37. Aaron Ekblad, FLA (+2)
38. Alexander Edler, VAN (-10)
39. Rasmus Ristolainen, BUF (-2)
40. Jake Muzzin, TOR* (-2)
41. Mike Matheson, FLA (+3)
42. Drew Doughty, LAK (+1)
43. Jared Spurgeon, MIN (+2)
44. Samuel Girard, COL (-9)
45. Rasmus Sandin, TOR (-5)
46. Darnell Nurse, EDM** (+1)
47. Kevin Shattenkirk, TBL* (-1)
48. Nikita Zadorov, COL** (NEW)
49. Damon Severson, NJD (NEW)
50. Matt Niskanen, PHI (NEW)

I grabbed the NHL top 50 fantasy list for a quick reference and IMO there 10 D on the list I trade that pkg for

Aside from the two guys Toronto already has niskanen and klefbom are the only ones I'd accept that package for. I don't see either moving. I'd set your sights a little lower

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Josi, if Nashville was interested in moving him?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I dont think there is a dman in this league that is a Sandin+Kapanen more valuable than Barrie.

Lol

Yes there most certainly is.

 

[slg1963]

What is the best defenseman this package could return for the Leafs?

Rasmus Sandin
Kasperi Kapanen
Tyson Barrie (UFA)

Sandin and Kappy for ADA, Georgiev and Anderson . Forget Barrie