There are just 4 Czechs Ds in the NHL

[Firsov99]

I am no expert, so I wouldn't know the exact reasons for this anomaly. But I've just recalled reading Patrik Eliáš's interview a few years ago. He is from a different generation obviously. He grew up in a small town, and his family was fairly poor. But he said that when he was growing up, the state paid for all his hockey equipment, training, and trips. His family wouldn't be able to afford it if it weren't for this help. In contrast to his circumstances, he mentioned that today a lot of very talented Czechs have to stop playing at around age 14-15 because their families simply can't afford paying for this because the state doesn't cover these expenses anymore.

As a result, possibly, a lot of talent from poor or lower middle class families simply doesn't get a chance to develop. So these gifted kids might drop off early.

 

[Czechboy]

What do you think are the reasons for this trend? What has happened to the development program?

$$$ is a big one.

Switching from communism to democracy is very hard financially.

I know it sounds like a long time ago but it's really our 1990's born crew that is kind of the problem. We completely lost the plot in the 90's and 00's and are now paying for it big time.

Shitty development, corrupt owners and no league to play in are all big problems. Much lke my Oilers decade of darkness... a reall 'boys on the bus' type vibe or 'old boys club'.

Eg. if you are a good 18 year old Czech... you've probably left for Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, US or Canada. Then the U20 league just gets more and more watered down. And the Extraliga is too big a step for most. It's also very unfriendly to young players. Been a problem for decades. I am legit happy when our D prospects leave to develop in CHL or Sweden. Eg. Badinka and Fibigr. Having said that.. Galvas, Svozil and both Jiricek's stayed and seem promising. Maybe the trend reverses. A lot of National team coaches sent their kids away and that is very telling! Eg. Reichel, Spacek and Petr all sent their kids to other leagues and they coach the Czech Junior or senior teams.lol Or, using Svozil.. he stayed.. his younger brother left for Finland. If I had a talented 18 year old.. he's going to CHL. Lukas Fischer, another son of a NT coach, also went the US route.

They also didn't have a focus on modern D.. now they clearly do as all our nominations have some very active D (eg. U18 should have Fibigr and Galvas who are both dynamic. They should've had Jiricek too). This year we could have 4 D in first 100 which is very rare for us - Fibigr, Badinka, Galvas and Jiricek. I'd actually venture to guess top 64 and don't think it is a massive stretch to believe this (but I have a bias). Of course, none of this means we have a Makar incoming and none of them ever have to make NHL. But they are much better than the previous decade of D prospects. Basically our last 15 years (which would be a 33 year old today) has produced Hronek and Gudas. Who I love but that ain't going to cut it.

 

[Czechboy]

I am no expert, so I wouldn't know the exact reasons for this anomaly. But I've just recalled reading Patrik Eliáš's interview a few years ago. He is from a different generation obviously. He grew up in a small town, and his family was fairly poor. But he said that when he was growing up, the state paid for all his hockey equipment, training, and trips. His family wouldn't be able to afford it if it weren't for this help. In contrast to his circumstances, he mentioned that today a lot of very talented Czechs have to stop playing at around age 14-15 because their families simply can't afford paying for this because the state doesn't cover these expenses anymore.

As a result, possibly, a lot of talent from poor or lower middle class families simply doesn't get a chance to develop. So these gifted kids might drop off early.

Something similar happening in Canada with the acadamies out West.. lots of rich kids developing beautifully in BC right now. BUt those aren't cheap.

The problem is that Canada is richer than the Czechs. Middle class Canuck and middle class Czech aren't the same pay scale relatively speaking. So if it has become a rich person sport.. we have less of them.lol

 

[Dirty Dog]

Correct, we've been terrible at it for over a decade now...

Also, it's currently 3.lol

2 big problems...

1. we simply didn't develop any good D and are paying for it
2. the promising ones all busted.

Eg. our most recent busts include Galvas, Hajek, Kral, Zboril, Masin and Musil.

It's been brutal.

We do have a decent D wave coming which is great but absolutely no guarantee any of them become NHLer's either.

Off the top of my head.. guys with a hope in hell or higher:

Jiricek, Svozil, Jiricek again, Svozil again, another Galvas, Badinka, Spacek, Alscher, Hamara, Dvorak, Port and Fibigr,

I'm sure I missed a few but those are all roughly first round or top 100 guys that may make some noise. Time will tell.. I have noticed that all our Junior teams lately have good D. If all these guys bust than expect to see the Czechs playing in Division B soon.lol

Your posts are always so informative as to Czech hockey (always a good read). Such a welcome poster to the forum!

 

[Firsov99]

$$$ is a big one.

Switching from communism to democracy is very hard financially.

I know it sounds like a long time ago but it's really our 1990's born crew that is kind of the problem. We completely lost the plot in the 90's and 00's and are now paying for it big time.

Shitty development, corrupt owners and no league to play in are all big problems. Much lke my Oilers decade of darkness... a reall 'boys on the bus' type vibe or 'old boys club'.

Eg. if you are a good 18 year old Czech... you've probably left for Sweden, Finland, Switzerland, US or Canada. Then the U20 league just gets more and more watered down. And the Extraliga is too big a step for most. It's also very unfriendly to young players. Been a problem for decades. I am legit happy when our D prospects leave to develop in CHL or Sweden. Eg. Badinka and Fibigr. Having said that.. Galvas, Svozil and both Jiricek's stayed and seem promising. Maybe the trend reverses. A lot of National team coaches sent their kids away and that is very telling! Eg. Reichel, Spacek and Petr all sent their kids to other leagues and they coach the Czech Junior or senior teams.lol Or, using Svozil.. he stayed.. his younger brother left for Finland. If I had a talented 18 year old.. he's going to CHL. Lukas Fischer, another son of a NT coach, also went the US route.

They also didn't have a focus on modern D.. now they clearly do as all our nominations have some very active D (eg. U18 should have Fibigr and Galvas who are both dynamic. They should've had Jiricek too). This year we could have 4 D in first 100 which is very rare for us - Fibigr, Badinka, Galvas and Jiricek. I'd actually venture to guess top 64 and don't think it is a massive stretch to believe this (but I have a bias). Of course, none of this means we have a Makar incoming and none of them ever have to make NHL. But they are much better than the previous decade of D prospects. Basically our last 15 years (which would be a 33 year old today) has produced Hronek and Gudas. Who I love but that ain't going to cut it.

It's very sad that lack of $$$ deprives opportunities from talented kids in hockey. But then probably other avenues of life might have become more available since the switch you are referring to...

One of my favorite games of all time is the World Cup 2004 Canada vs Czechia. While watching this, I remember thinking: "How does this small nation -- Czechia -- keep generating so much talent?" Just a few years before this game the Czechs won back to back WJHCs. Plus the 1998 Olympics Gold in the best-on-best tourbament was still fairly recent then. I wouldn't fathom at the time that such a substantial decline in Czech hockey could occur. So, I truly hope the Czechs could regain their hockey prowess.

 

[Czechboy]

It's very sad that lack of $$$ deprives opportunities from talented kids in hockey. But then probably other avenues of life might have become more available since the switch you are referring to...

One of my favorite games of all time is the World Cup 2004 Canada vs Czechia. While watching this, I remember thinking: "How does this small nation -- Czechia -- keep generating so much talent?" Just a few years before this game the Czechs won back to back WJHCs. Plus the 1998 Olympics Gold in the best-on-best tourbament was still fairly recent then. I wouldn't fathom at the time that such a substantial decline in Czech hockey could occur. So, I truly hope the Czechs could regain their hockey prowess.

We didn't see it coming... what's funny is that around 2001 you could argue we were number 1 in the world. I know Canucks hate this statement but

Olympic champs 1998 (best on best)
3 straight worlds (I know that isn't best on best)
Back to back golds at the World Juniors

We also had 1OV picks, 80 NHLers and Jagr and Hasek killing it! BUT at the same time.. here is the 1998 born kids draft from our greatest year in hockey:

So we were on top and plummetting to the bottom. All the drafts around here are pathetic.

I actually fear the Swiss have the exact same thing happening to them right now. Some great NHL players today but no one is being drafted right now and they don't have guys coming in to replace the Hischeirs and Nino's either. So you can look and say 'no problem, they are very good and have 12 awesome NHL players like Josi!'. Very true, but they have a very bare pipe and are losing at U18's, Hlinka's and U20's while still winning at World's. Germany is falling into a similar hole after the Drai/Seider/Peterka/Stutz gold mine.

As far as money .. it is a shame. A lot of the Canuck posters say it is happening here too with the Q being a step down and the reason being people would rather pay for soccer/tennis/basketball etc. than hockey due to the cost (and culture). So OHL and WHL are cooking with rich kids. Something tells me the USNDTP isn't parents below the poverty line either.lol

And yeah, loved that 2004 game... Lecavalier with that goal crushed me! We had great forwards, great goalie and good D then. Balanced. Not today.

I hope Czechs and Slovaks can get back to relevance. Slovakia essentially needs a new start as the NHL pipeline is pretty empty - 3 very good D, no goalies and some forwards. We need to somehow close the missing decade gap. Eg. Canada will have MacK and McD who are similar in age and we may be Kulich and Pasta firing away who are a decade apart in age.lol Or Gudas and Jiricek as a D pair.lol Just this black hole of 23 to 30 year old talent. Pasta, Hronek and Necas being the exceptions of course. And we do have a lot of goalies in the mix. Some nights we have more goalies playing the D and G.lol

 

[Bijelo]

Was more Czech Republic in the league for around ten and thirty years ago.

 

[Goose]

It is shockingly low, not matter what premises you can think of.

I chose the most common, sensible premise possible.

Let me ask you this:

There are 100 red ducks and 2500 blue ducks in a pond.

I ask you to pick 26 ducks randomly.

You end up with 1 red duck and 25 blue ducks.

Do you have a shockingly low number of red ducks?

 

[Bijelo]

We didn't see it coming... what's funny is that around 2001 you could argue we were number 1 in the world. I know Canucks hate this statement but

Olympic champs 1998 (best on best)
3 straight worlds (I know that isn't best on best)
Back to back golds at the World Juniors

We also had 80 NHLers.


I actually fear the Swiss have the exact same thing happening to them right now. Some great NHL players today but no one is being drafted right now and they don't have guys coming in to replace the Hischeirs and Nino's either. So you can look and say 'no problem, they are very good and have 12 awesome NHL players like Josi!'. Very true, but they have a very bare pipe and are losing at U18's, Hlinka's and U20's while still winning at World's. Germany is falling into a similar hole after the Drai/Seider/Peterka/Stutz gold mine.



I hope Czechs and Slovaks can get back to relevance. Slovakia essentially needs a new start as the NHL pipeline is pretty empty - 3 very good D, no goalies and some forwards. We need to somehow close the missing decade gap.

National teams isn't particularly but Czechia player well in WC, Olympics and Junior before than last 10 WC.

No gold medal last 10 WC?

In NHL Czechia dominate around millennium shift.

 

[Czechboy]

National teams isn't particularly but Czechia player well in WC, Olympics and Junior before than last 10 WC.

No gold medal last 10 WC?

In NHL Czechia dominate around millennium shift.

Last ten years have been bad... But in the last 2 years we have had more success than the decade before it...

Bronze at WC
Silver at U20
Silver at Hlinka
Bronze at U20
Silver at U16
And our ladies have a silver at U18 and 2 bronzes at world's

Been a great two years.

Last year's world's team and U18 were terrible though. I think this year's U18 will be quite good. World's are in Prague and we will be missing some key forwards and will be weak up front. A year ago it looked like we would have Krejci and Hertl but Krejci decided not to and Hertl is on a cup contender now. Also though frk would be good in Europe.. he wasnt. Also though Vrana would be a 30 goal scorer... Nope.lol

 

[ItWasJustified]

I chose the most common, sensible premise possible.

Let me ask you this:

There are 100 red ducks and 2500 blue ducks in a pond.

I ask you to pick 26 ducks randomly.

You end up with 1 red duck and 25 blue ducks.

Do you have a shockingly low number of red ducks?

To have a reasonable comparison to hockey and how hockey nations have progressed over time, your premise would have to include that you can feel warmth coming from 25 of the red ducks so it would be easier to identify some of the ones that are red.

 

[Eye of Ra]

National teams isn't particularly but Czechia player well in WC, Olympics and Junior before than last 10 WC.

No gold medal last 10 WC?

In NHL Czechia dominate around millennium shift.

2009 is the last gold medal

 

[Bijelo]

2009 is the last gold medal

Czechia play worse then.

 

[Elvs]

I chose the most common, sensible premise possible.

Let me ask you this:

There are 100 red ducks and 2500 blue ducks in a pond.

I ask you to pick 26 ducks randomly.

You end up with 1 red duck and 25 blue ducks.

Do you have a shockingly low number of red ducks?

The real way to look at it is that there are 33 czechs in the NHL currently (counting every player that appeared in at least one game this season).

Out of those 33 ...

... 21 are forwards

... 5 are defensemen

... 7 are goaltenders

No matter if you think the Czech's are being overrepresented in the league as a whole, it's clear that among the NHL'ers they do develop, they have a clear disproportion on defense (negatively) and in goal (positively).

A more linear and logical spread would be 20 forwards, 10 defensemen and 3 goaltenders.

So yeah, if Czechia were equally as good at developing players across the board (all positions), they should have twice as many defensemen as they have currently.

 

[Czechboy]

The real way to look at it is that there are 33 czechs in the NHL currently (counting every player that appeared in at least one game this season).

Out of those 33 ...

... 21 are forwards

... 5 are defensemen

... 7 are goaltenders

No matter if you think the Czech's are being overrepresented in the league as a whole, it's clear that among the NHL'ers they do develop, they have a clear disproportion on defense (negatively) and in goal (positively).

A more linear and logical spread would be 20 forwards, 10 defensemen and 3 goaltenders.

So yeah, if Czechia were equally as good at developing players across the board (all positions), they should have twice as many defensemen as they have currently.

And in your scenario.. it'd be a big 6 again. Our fatal flaw is the D.

Here is a different analogy

Let's say Makar and Hughes are a ten (for arguments sake)

So Hronek and Gudas are a 7
A 6 is bottom pair territory - Kulak, Bean.. something like that

5 is AHL tweener or Euro D

Currently we have 2 x 7, 2 x 6 (Rutta and Jiricek) and then about FIFTY 5's... Musil, Masin, Sustr, Zboril, Simek Hajek, Knot, Kempny, Galvas, Kral - the list goes on forever. I honestly wouldn't even be able to tell you who our 4th to 8th D is because they are equally good and flawed at the same time. It is amazing to me that they all ended up as tweeners.

 

[Czechboy]

 

[Czechboy]

Above is all the Czech D taken in the last 10 years.

And here is a hillarious stat... Jiricek has 10 points in his career.

Hajek has 12 and Zboril has 16. He should pass their career highs pretty soon.lol

 

[Czechboy]

 

[robertmac43]

I would have guessed 10+ before seeing this thread. Shows how off I am..

 

[Czechboy]

The decade before that is just as bad but it did have Hejda, Polak, Smid, Jordan and Gudas. All are pretty much the same kind of stay at home type Dman that doesn't exist much anymore. Kindl was supposed to have some skill... and Musil was a high pick who really isn't that different from Hejda, Polak, Smid and Gudas.

 

[Stephen]

Czech NHL Defensemen ‑ All-Time Stats

All-time Czech NHL defensemen scoring leaders | NHL statistics for all Czech defensemen.

www.quanthockey.com

Apparently there have only ever been 83 Czech defensemen to ever play in the NH, with about 30 odd being cup of coffee guys. Which seems proportionately low when you think of Hamrlik, Kaberle, Kubina, Svoboda, Zidlicky, Roszival, and those kind of guys who played for a long time. I would have assumed over 100.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Kaberle

I guess u mean Tomas. But his brother, Frantisek, was good aswell.