There are just 4 Czechs Ds in the NHL

[Czechboy]

The Czech percentage of NHL players has been falling for some time and has bottomed out this year

It peaked at 8.2 % of man games played during the 2001-02 season and fallen to 2.7 % of man games played in 2023-24. They failed to win a Medal at the U20 world Juniors every year between 2006 and 2022, and only reached the semifinals three times (going 0-3 in that round) between 2002 and 2021.

The good news is that things are picking up a little bit. They are starting to get better results in Junior competition, the upcoming Olympic cycle will likely be a bit rough though. Hopefully things will continue to progress but they are still a long way away from their previous highs.

Time will tell.. we have dug a big hole.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It kind of looks like they are victims of other countries like USA catching up and investing into hockey players, which they had not done well in the past. With their players taking more spots in the lineups, all other countries would suffer, unless they also saw an increase. It is entirely possible Czechis is producing the same as before, but it is not as good in comparison to others.

Stagnation is regression in an expanding market.

It is not stagnation, they regressed. All the same countries were around in 2000 and 2001 when they won back to back world juniors. They also won (best on best) Olympic gold in 1998, with again, the same countries around. They still had a pretty good Olympic roster in 2006, but they got seldom in terms of reinforcements from there and got quite old afterwards. From 2006 to 2017, they failed to even reach the semifinals in the World Juniors. Or look at the World Championships, where the rising American hockey power still does not matter because USA never does anything there. Czechia won Gold as an Independent nation in 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2005 and 2010. All great results. Since then, Bronze in 2011 and 2012.. and then just one Bronze in 2022 to show for it.

 

[Czechboy]

In 2006 there was 22;

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats 2005-2006

2005-2006 regular season player stats for NHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

From that to 4

 

[Czechboy]

In 2006 there was 22;

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats 2005-2006

2005-2006 regular season player stats for NHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

From that to 4

Tell that to the poster who thinks 1.6 percent is reasonable.lol

 

[Ivo]

Same as us Slovaks, woohoo! Then again, the Slovaks actually have only 2 forwards who are regulars. Maybe we should re-form the federation, that way we could at least ice a half-decent team.

 

[Swipes]

As many as 4? I wouldn't be very surprised if it was less, so dire our D development has been.

Sweden has 20+ Ds in the league.

Lend us some. You don't need so many!

 

[JianYang]

I remember when the Habs had two Czech dmen on the SAME pairing, let alone only 4 in the whole league.

(Spacek/Hamrlik)

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I both agree and disagree with you.lol.

We used to have more 2 way type guys that could do it all... Not elite but effective. Hamrlik, zidlicky, Spacek, Svoboda, F kaberle and slegr come to mind. T kaberle being more offensive type.

Then we hit this brutal walk where they all seemed to be big oxes who could block shots in an era where everyone was getting away from it. One of my favs was David Musil (draft bust) and he was basically perfect to play in a different era. Something like Darrian hatcher.

Then we just kept producing those kinds of D. And they all kind of sucked.lol

As far as staying in Extraliga.. not really... Most young or promising Czechs would leave quickly for a 2 way NHL contract.

Can't stress enough. This is all self inflicted. Future seems promising but absolutely no guarantee that any of our modern 2 way D will be better than the previously failed mooses.lol

I agree there used to be more guys who were able to achieve success in the eras in which they played, but which of those "not elite but effective" guys do you think would be a regular top pairing D today, like they were back in their own era? Do you think a prime Tomas Kaberle would be on the Leafs PP1 today over Rielly? I'd say maybe. But, what about Zidlicky in Nashville over Josi? I'd say probably not. Where would Svoboda slot in for the Sabres today?

With so much more elite talent in the league today, I think it's safe to assume that most of the top Czechs from years past would be more like 2nd and 3rd line guys instead, and the guys who weren't necessarily very effective but had size/toughness would be out of the league. And as a result, I think we'd still be looking at a smaller number of Czech defensemen in the league.

And, to be fair, it's easy to fall into the trap of building your hockey development programs based around what has worked in the past. For 20+ years, big, strong, tough guys with moderate hockey skills could make the NHL and have long successful careers. So, a lot of programs were built to give the NHL exactly what they wanted. Unfortunately, the NHL changed what they want to be more speed and skill, and adapting to a change like this on the fly can often be easier said than done, especially for a smaller country like Czechia. But give it another 5-10 years, and I think they'll probably get there.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Do you think a prime Tomas Kaberle would be on the Leafs PP1 today over Rielly? I'd say maybe. But, what about Zidlicky in Nashville over Josi? I'd say probably not.

Not sure why you have to necessarily put them on the same team they are in present days. Rielly and Josi are on the higher end of defensemen. They would like be on a PP1 somewhere given their level.

 

[Czechboy]

I agree there used to be more guys who were able to achieve success in the eras in which they played, but which of those "not elite but effective" guys do you think would be a regular top pairing D today, like they were back in their own era? Do you think a prime Tomas Kaberle would be on the Leafs PP1 today over Rielly? I'd say maybe. But, what about Zidlicky in Nashville over Josi? I'd say probably not. Where would Svoboda slot in for the Sabres today?

With so much more elite talent in the league today, I think it's safe to assume that most of the top Czechs from years past would be more like 2nd and 3rd line guys instead, and the guys who weren't necessarily very effective but had size/toughness would be out of the league. And as a result, I think we'd still be looking at a smaller number of Czech defensemen in the league.

And, to be fair, it's easy to fall into the trap of building your hockey development programs based around what has worked in the past. For 20+ years, big, strong, tough guys with moderate hockey skills could make the NHL and have long successful careers. So, a lot of programs were built to give the NHL exactly what they wanted. Unfortunately, the NHL changed what they want to be more speed and skill, and adapting to a change like this on the fly can often be easier said than done, especially for a smaller country like Czechia. But give it another 5-10 years, and I think they'll probably get there.

I think those guys were top pairing players in their era. Comparing players from one era to another never works.

Eg. Imagine ovis one timer on goalies in the 1980s with those pads on them.lol.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Not sure why you have to necessarily put them on the same team they are in present days. Rielly and Josi are on the higher end of defensemen. They would like be on a PP1 somewhere given their level.

I put them on the same teams, because the teams are still pretty comparable in the standings. I don't think that potentially being on the PP1 in Arizona or Montreal is quite the same level as being top 10 in defenseman scoring for the league while playing for a wildcard team or contender.

And, even with Montreal or Arizona, I still have some pretty significant doubts that they'd be the best choice, mostly because of how much better everyone is skating today, compared to years past. Can they make the quick decisions needed at the blueline as speedy forwards apply pressure in an instant? I have no idea. Can they skate well enough to not get walked by today's top line forwards without taking a holding penalty? They weren't really the best skaters in their own eras, so unless I imagine their skating magically improving in this scenario, I don't think so.

I think those guys were top pairing players in their era. Comparing players from one era to another never works.

Eg. Imagine ovis one timer on goalies in the 1980s with those pads on them.lol.

I know they were top pairing in the era. But their era didn't require them to be much more than a decent skater. Today, the top defensemen are all elite skaters, and I wouldn't expect many of the guys from years past to be able to keep up, at least not without imagining they were much better skaters than they actually were.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I put them on the same teams, because the teams are still pretty comparable in the standings. I don't think that potentially being on the PP1 in Arizona or Montreal is quite the same level as being top 10 in defenseman scoring for the league while playing for a wildcard team or contender.

And, even with Montreal or Arizona, I still have some pretty significant doubts that they'd be the best choice, mostly because of how much better everyone is skating today, compared to years past. Can they make the quick decisions needed at the blueline as speedy forwards apply pressure in an instant? I have no idea. Can they skate well enough to not get walked by today's top line forwards without taking a holding penalty? They weren't really the best skaters in their own eras, so unless I imagine their skating magically improving in this scenario, I don't think so.



I know they were top pairing in the era. But their era didn't require them to be much more than a decent skater. Today, the top defensemen are all elite skaters, and I wouldn't expect many of the guys from years past to be able to keep up, at least not without imagining they were much better skaters than they actually were.

You're playing an extremely dangerous game with your era comparisons, that's how you get yourself to "Gordie Howe would be an average 3rd liner today" if you take it to an extreme conclusion.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

You're playing an extremely dangerous game with your era comparisons, that's how you get yourself to "Gordie Howe would be an average 3rd liner today" if you take it to an extreme conclusion.

Don't worry, I've already gotten to "Gordie Howe would be an average 3rd liner today" and have come to terms with that being true. It's also true that he was one of the greatest hockey players in the history of the game. But the game has evolved significantly since his era, and acknowledging it doesn't erase the greatness of the guys who helped change the game.

And Tomas Kaberle played his last game in 2013. Zidlicky's was in 2016. Is it really that difficult to see that they weren't great skaters compared to guys like Doughty and Subban and Pietro, and then looking at how much better everyone has gotten even since then? I don't need to adjust for wooden sticks or skates sharpened by candlelight, right?

 

[TropicOfNoReturn]

pretty sure Pavel Trnka has been playing for the Ducks this season

 

[Osakahaus]

I guess you can say

They've...












Czeched out

 

[Eye of Ra]

Slovakia also have 4 Ds in NHL, as many as the Czechs have

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats 2023-2024

2023-2024 regular season player stats for NHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

quite impressing due to the fact that czechia is twice as big as country

 

[Martin Skoula]

I don't think it's all that surprising. A bunch of the Czech D that used to be in the league got their jobs because they were big and/or strong, and not necessarily because they were the most skilled players. With the league shifting more towards speed and skill, and a bunch of good youngsters coming through the draft, the mid-range Czech dmen like Slagr and Skoula and Smid aren't getting multiple chances to make teams anymore.

It's also possible that many of them are staying home to play in the Czech leagues instead of coming over to ride a bus in the AHL.

Big and strong, or generational puck poise? Keep my name out your mouth.

 

[Czechboy]

Slovakia also have 4 Ds in NHL, as many as the Czechs have

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats 2023-2024

2023-2024 regular season player stats for NHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

quite impressing due to the fact that czechia is twice as big as country

And they are all quite good!

 

[Elvs]

I am by no means in favor of communism, but in terms of ice hockey it probably helped Czechoslovakia back in the day.

Here's a quote from Marian Hossa to the Chicago Sun-Times a bunch of years ago:

“The parents didn’t have to pay big money like they parents do these days. There was big competition because everybody could play and come play and only the best can go further,” Hossa said. “Right now, there’s not enough kids because it costs so much money for the parents. It comes down to economics. I think that’s why there’s a big hole.”

Those players growing up in the 70's and 80's came up through a complete different system, and since breaking up, Czehia and Slovakia have had to develop their own programs.

We are starting to see Slovakia turn it around, finally, so there is no reason to think Czechia couldn't do the same. Maybe they will never reach the heights of the 90's and 00's, but definately they could improve.

 

[Elvs]

And despite of the low numbers of Czech defensemen currently in the NHL, they're not any worse on the blueline than they were two or three years ago.

Just because Simek and Zboril are in the AHL, it doesn't automatically mean they got worse. Same with Hajek who returned home. Even Kempny, who is also home and playing in Czechia, is as good or better than several 6/7 defensemen playing in the NHL right now.

Actually, I'm not sure Czechia's defense on paper, if a best on best tournament was held this year, would be any worse than in the 2014 Olympics. I think you would have to go back to further to see much of a differance.

 

[JabbaJabba]

Slovakia also have 4 Ds in NHL, as many as the Czechs have

Elite Prospects - NHL Stats 2023-2024

2023-2024 regular season player stats for NHL, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

quite impressing due to the fact that czechia is twice as big as country

Koch has played one game though. Wouldn't call him an NHL player.

 

[kudla]

Czechia has always had weak Ds compared to offense. Slovakia with the exact opposite problem. I might be wrong, but the only real good defensemen from czechia are Zidlicky and Hronek?

But this might turn around rather quickly. Jiricek (x2), Galvas will be very good NHL players, then there are many more "depth" guys that will be drafted soon too.

 

[Firsov99]

Correct, we've been terrible at it for over a decade now...

Also, it's currently 3.lol

2 big problems...

1. we simply didn't develop any good D and are paying for it
2. the promising ones all busted.

Eg. our most recent busts include Galvas, Hajek, Kral, Zboril, Masin and Musil.

It's been brutal.

We do have a decent D wave coming which is great but absolutely no guarantee any of them become NHLer's either.

Off the top of my head.. guys with a hope in hell or higher:

Jiricek, Svozil, Jiricek again, Svozil again, another Galvas, Badinka, Spacek, Alscher, Hamara, Dvorak, Port and Fibigr,

I'm sure I missed a few but those are all roughly first round or top 100 guys that may make some noise. Time will tell.. I have noticed that all our Junior teams lately have good D. If all these guys bust than expect to see the Czechs playing in Division B soon.lol

What do you think are the reasons for this trend? What has happened to the development program?

 

[Voodoozz]

Czechia has always had weak Ds compared to offense. Slovakia with the exact opposite problem. I might be wrong, but the only real good defensemen from czechia are Zidlicky and Hronek?

But this might turn around rather quickly. Jiricek (x2), Galvas will be very good NHL players, then there are many more "depth" guys that will be drafted soon too.

We had plenty of very solid defensemen during the late 90s/00s era, i dare say. No true superstars like Chara but guys like T. Kaberle or Hamrlik were elite during their primes. Guys like Spacek, Slegr, F. Kaberle, Kubina, Z. Michalek, Svoboda etc. were all very solid as well. Right now it's just Hronek, Gudas, Rutta(who's a 6/7 D at best) and hopefully Jiricek in the near future.

We do have a lot of promising guys coming up at the draft, but it's such a long shot for a young player to become a good NHL defenseman... many of them simply won't make it.

 

[ItWasJustified]

The premise of the (main board) thread is that 4 Czechs is shockingly low

It is shockingly low, not matter what premises you can think of.